192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Brand X
 
  0  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 06:21 am
Exactly, Glenn.

Exerpt:

'THE WASHINGTON POST late Friday night published an explosive story that, in many ways, is classic American journalism of the worst sort: The key claims are based exclusively on the unverified assertions of anonymous officials, who in turn are disseminating their own claims about what the CIA purportedly believes, all based on evidence that remains completely secret.

These unnamed sources told the Post that “the CIA has concluded in a secret assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump win the presidency, rather than just to undermine confidence in the U.S. electoral system.” The anonymous officials also claim that “intelligence agencies have identified individuals with connections to the Russian government who provided WikiLeaks with thousands of hacked emails” from both the DNC and John Podesta’s email account. Critically, none of the actual evidence for these claims is disclosed; indeed, the CIA’s “secret assessment” itself remains concealed.

A second leak from last night, this one given to the New York Times, cites other anonymous officials as asserting that “the Russians hacked the Republican National Committee’s computer systems in addition to their attacks on Democratic organizations, but did not release whatever information they gleaned from the Republican networks.” But that NYT story says that “it is also far from clear that Russia’s original intent was to support Mr. Trump, and many intelligence officials — and former officials in Mrs. Clinton’s campaign — believe that the primary motive of the Russians was to simply disrupt the campaign and undercut confidence in the integrity of the vote.”

Deep down in its article, the Post notes — rather critically — that “there were minor disagreements among intelligence officials about the agency’s assessment, in part because some questions remain unanswered.” Most importantly, the Post adds that “intelligence agencies do not have specific intelligence showing officials in the Kremlin ‘directing’ the identified individuals to pass the Democratic emails to WikiLeaks.” But the purpose of both anonymous leaks is to finger the Russian government for these hacks, acting with the motive to defeat Hillary Clinton.

Needless to say, Democrats — still eager to make sense of their election loss and to find causes for it other than themselves — immediately declared these anonymous claims about what the CIA believes to be true, and, with a somewhat sweet, religious-type faith, treated these anonymous assertions as proof of what they wanted to believe all along: that Vladimir Putin was rooting for Donald Trump to win and Hillary Clinton to lose and used nefarious means to ensure that outcome. That Democrats are now venerating unverified, anonymous CIA leaks as sacred is par for the course for them this year, but it’s also a good indication of how confused and lost U.S. political culture has become in the wake of Trump’s victory.

Given the obvious significance of this story — it is certain to shape how people understand the 2016 election and probably foreign policy debates for months if not years to come — it is critical to keep in mind some basic facts about what is known and, more importantly, what is not known:

(1) Nobody has ever opposed investigations to determine if Russia hacked these emails, nor has anyone ever denied the possibility that Russia did that. The source of contention has been quite simple: No accusations should be accepted until there is actual convincing evidence to substantiate those accusations.

There is still no such evidence for any of these claims. What we have instead are assertions, disseminated by anonymous people, completely unaccompanied by any evidence, let alone proof. As a result, none of the purported evidence — still — can be publicly seen, reviewed, or discussed. Anonymous claims leaked to newspapers about what the CIA believes do not constitute proof, and certainly do not constitute reliable evidence that substitutes for actual evidence that can be reviewed. Have we really not learned this lesson yet?

The rest worth a look.

https://theintercept.com/2016/12/10/anonymous-leaks-to-the-washpost-about-the-cias-russia-beliefs-are-no-substitute-for-evidence/
layman
 
  1  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 06:32 am
@Brand X,
Brand X wrote:

(1) Nobody has ever opposed investigations to determine if Russia hacked these emails, nor has anyone ever denied the possibility that Russia did that.


Good, thoughtful article, X, thanks. And just to make it clear to the cheese-eating commies here, "nobody" also includes Trump out. That's obvious to any rational, unbiased person, but....

"Have we really not learned this lesson yet?"

Yeah, we really haven't. And some NEVER will. If they want to accuse Trump of a "lie" in circumstances where complete evidence is unavailable then his assertions are FALSE! 5 Pinnochios! Pants on Fire!

In the same circumstances, the "fact-checking" is omitted if the proposition at issue would in any way disfavor Trump. It that case, the proposition is submitted as indisputable, widely-confirmed, stone-cold FACT.

Go figure, eh?

"The rest worth a look."

Yeah, and anyone who does look will see that what you've posted is just the tip of the iceberg, X.

BTW, although I use Trump as an example here, the same type of thing goes both ways. If it were Clinton's statements at issue, it would be the same, only in reverse.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 06:46 am
@Brand X,
For the convenience of the lazy-asses (often the one's with the biggest mouths) I will even post the other numbered points (without the supporting comment):

Quote:
(2) The reasons no rational person should blindly believe anonymous claims of this sort — even if it is pleasing to believe such claims — should be obvious by now.

(3) An important part of this story, quite clearly, is inter-agency feuding between, at the very least, the CIA and the FBI.

(4) Even just within the leaks of the last 24 hours, there are multiple grounds of confusion, contradictions, and uncertainty.

(5) Contrary to the declarations of self-vindication by supremely smug Democrats, none of this even relates to, let alone negates, the concerns over their election-year McCarthyite behavior and tactics
.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 06:50 am
Quote:
4 Pinocchios for Trump’s understanding of the unemployment rate
link

If Walt Disney was still alive and, like Steve Bannon, a great fan of Leni Riefenstahl's work, he could make a cartoon of the 2000 pinocchios already awarded to Trump marching like identical robotic soldiers to wage glorious war against newspaper offices across the land.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 06:58 am
@blatham,
Quote:
Leadfoot Quote:
"Holy ****, 68 pages in less than a month."


I am a fisher of men. Or as I have it in the King Bernies modernized version of the holy scriptures, a fisher of persons.

Yep, this has got to be a record.

The only time I saw as rabid a response to a post was the time I posted a thread on "The Atheist Case for Drug Use".

At least this time the fish are nibbling on the actual bait :-)
Frugal1
 
  -1  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:03 am
@Brand X,
Did Russia instruct that nasty woman to skip the states she did?
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:06 am
@Leadfoot,
I would have joined in your exciting discussion topic. And that's even given that my hash pipe is shaped like a crucifix with two hash-holding indentations to load up the hash (where the nail holes would be) and four mouthpieces for those times when friends are over.
layman
 
  0  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:09 am
@Frugal1,
Frugal1 wrote:
Did Russia instruct that nasty woman to skip the states she did?

Heh, Frug.

They might have made it apparent to her that it would be hopeless even if she didn't (skip them).

If her supporters had turned out in numbers anywhere near what Obama managed to motivate to get off their fat, cheese-eating asses, and go to the polls, she would have won.

But she couldn't inspire or scare them enough to do it. In part because her co-conspirators (the media) were so damn arrogant and cocksure that they thought she would win even if NOBODY voted.

And, of course, in large part because nobody really wanted her sorry ass to begin with.
blatham
 
  0  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:13 am
These folks just keep on inspiring confidence, don't they. Here's our latest in Trumplandia and The Yellow Menace.
Quote:
At a political rally in June 2009, Donald Trump’s soon-to-be deputy national security adviser, K.T. McFarland, offered a jarring prediction.

China might cancel the Fourth of July, she said.

“They’re going to want something for their money. They’re not our sugar daddy,” McFarland told a tea party crowd in Times Square, referring to America’s more than $1 trillion in debt to Beijing. “So, 10 years from now, you might not have American Independence Day. … The Fourth of July might just end up being another day on the calendar.”

Unless voters “throw the bums out” McFarland said, “we can all start learning Chinese.” She then read aloud Mandarin phrases from an index card, including ones for “How can I help you?” and “What do you want from me?”
we screw you long time
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:19 am
And why stop there? Let's turn that confidence-o-meter right up to 11.
Quote:
Ambassador John Bolton claimed Sunday that hacks during the election season could have been "a false flag" operation — possibly committed by the Obama administration itself.

In an interview with Fox News' Eric Shawn, Bolton questioned why FBI Director James Comey said during the investigation of Hillary Clinton's private server, there was no direct evidence found of foreign intelligence service penetration, but cyber fingerprints were found in regards to the presidential election.

"It is not at all clear to me just viewing this from the outside, that this hacking into the DNC and the RNC computers was not a false flag," Bolton said. "So the question has to be asked, why did the Russians run their smart intelligence service against Hillary's server, but their dumb intelligence service against the election?"

Shawn then asked Bolton — who has been mentioned as a possible Trump appointment — if he was accusing someone in "the administration or in the intelligence community of" the alleged false flag.

"We just don't know," Bolton said. "But I believe that the intelligence community has been politicized in the Obama administration to a very significant degree."
Hell yeah!
revelette1
 
  1  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:20 am
There is enough evidence to support a probe of Russian interference in our elections, just not concrete evidence they did with the goal of getting Trump elected even though there is as lot of circumstantial evidence of it. In fact, the FBI has been trying to extradite two Russians and have been aggressively going after hackers.

Quote:
The F.B.I. and federal prosecutors have already gone aggressively after Russian hackers, including two men detained in Thailand and the Czech Republic whom the United States is trying to extradite.

Russia has tried to block those efforts and has accused the United States of harassing its citizens.

The F.B.I. began investigating Russia’s apparent attempts to meddle in the election over the summer. Agents examined numerous possible connections between Russians and members of Mr. Trump’s inner circle, including former Trump aides like Paul Manafort and Carter Page, as well as a mysterious and unexplained trail of computer activity between the Trump Organization and an email account at a large Russian bank, Alfa Bank.


source

I agree we can't re-do the election and I don't think it made a difference in our elections anyway. However, the mere fact we had hackers interfering in our elections should give everyone cause to want to look into it unless they are so partisan they don't care about our cyber security.

Quote:
Now that a partisan squall has erupted over exactly what role Russia played in influencing the election, there is growing momentum among both Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill to have a congressional investigation.

“I’m not trying to relitigate the election,” said Senator Angus King, independent of Maine, who is one of the lawmakers calling for such an investigation. “I’m just trying to prevent this from happening again.”


(from the same source)

Leadfoot
 
  2  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:21 am
@blatham,
I'll swap pipes with you. Mine was a gift from an ex that looks way too phallic. The bowl is in the ball sack. I must replace it on next trip to CO. FL still criminalizes paraphernalia.
revelette1
 
  2  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:22 am
@blatham,
Oh please, if anything Obama was too cautious as always in trying not to appear partisan.
Frugal1
 
  -2  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:25 am
@layman,
I read that Trump is offering a free alarm clock to cheese-eaters in exchange for their 0bama phones.
0 Replies
 
Frugal1
 
  -1  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:32 am
Notice how America is already Stronger Without Her ... nice.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  0  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:36 am
OK, I got something wrong again. I have to admit I misoverunderestimated Trump on what he'd say when challenged on his position re Russian hacking. Here's what he actually did say yesterday:

Quote:
Trump had appeared earlier in the day on a taped interview segment on "Fox News Sunday" in which he called those allegations "ridiculous." The president-elect told host Chris Wallace: “I think it's ridiculous. I think it's just another excuse. I don't believe it."
thank god he's smart
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:37 am
@Leadfoot,
Or you could just relax. It's 2016, for goodness sake.
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:38 am
@revelette1,
I didn't know of the FBI stuff, rev. Thanks.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:42 am
@revelette1,
Quote:
if anything Obama was too cautious as always in trying not to appear partisan.

I'm with him on that, actually. It's the only responsible course to attempt. For sure, it took him a bit too long to recognize the obstruction game being played against him but for the President to further damage hope of collegiality and maturity in the process would have been (and now will be) destructive.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Mon 12 Dec, 2016 07:49 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

OK, I got something wrong again. I have to admit I misoverunderestimated Trump on what he'd say when challenged on his position re Russian hacking. Here's what he actually did say yesterday:

Quote:
Trump had appeared earlier in the day on a taped interview segment on "Fox News Sunday" in which he called those allegations "ridiculous." The president-elect told host Chris Wallace: “I think it's ridiculous. I think it's just another excuse. I don't believe it."
thank god he's smart

Just one other in a long series of out of context snippets designed to completely distort what Trump said. Anyone who cares for truth (which definitely excludes Blathy) should listen to Trump's ENTIRE response in the video I posted.

What a tool.
0 Replies
 
 

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