192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
hingehead
 
  3  
Sat 9 Jan, 2021 11:40 pm
@oristarA,
It's simpler than that - twitter is a privately owned platform - ultimately they decide who has access. When FoxNews give me my own regular 30 minute show I'll start thinking that this is a free speech issue.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 12:01 am
Parler, favoured by conservatives and extremists, could go down from Sunday night after Amazon reportedly said it would stop hosting the network in the wake of the US Capitol attack, and Apple suspended it from its App Store over its role in last week’s attack on the US Capitol by a pro-Trump mob.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  -2  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 12:58 am
"When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar; you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say." ~ Tyrion Lannister.
Builder
 
  -3  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 03:03 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
twitter is a privately owned platform


Same as this platform.

Quote:
ultimately they decide who has access


Same as this platform.

Quote:
When FoxNews give me my own regular 30 minute show I'll start thinking that this is a free speech issue.


Quite probably the most idiotic analogy I've ever seen, Hinge.



izzythepush
 
  2  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 03:04 am
Amazon is removing Nazi chat site Parler from it’s web hosting site.
hightor
 
  4  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 04:12 am
@Builder,
a fictional character wrote:
When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar; you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.

See, that's the thing these oafs fail to comprehend. They can still say what they want. They can still think what they want. No one's being hunted down for expressing their opinion and the voices being kicked off of social media platforms are ones whose messages might result in the outlets being sued for hosting messages which promote violence or are spewing disinformation. This is what happens when only one or two corporations have been allowed to achieve so much control of communications technology. The idiots still have the theoretical right to start up their own rival media empires which don't rely on the services of Apple, Google, Amazon etc — it just happens to be prohibitively difficult because we've allowed too much control to rest in too few players. But that's a problem with capitalism, not free speech.

Quote:
(...)

“We understand the desire to permanently suspend him now,” Kate Ruane, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union, wrote in a statement on Friday. “But it should concern everyone when companies like Facebook and Twitter wield the unchecked power to remove people from platforms that have become indispensable for the speech of billions — especially when political realities make those decisions easier.”

(...)

No serious thinker believes that Twitter and Facebook, as private companies, are obligated to give any user a platform, just as no one doubts that a restaurant owner can boot an unruly diner for causing a scene. But there are legitimate questions about whether a small handful of unelected tech executives, accountable only to their boards and shareholders (and, in Mr. Zuckerberg’s case, to neither) should wield such enormous power. These actions also raise longer-term questions, such as whether the business models of social media companies are fundamentally compatible with a healthy democracy, or whether a generation of Twitter-addicted politicians can ever be untaught the lesson that racking up retweets is a surer path to power than governing responsibly.

nyt

Wringing our hands over "freedom of speech" is a sideshow. Employing new technology without relying on the old corporate model of privately-owned monopolies dominating the market is the issue. Humans have been drafted into becoming the foot soldiers for the big tech firms through their addiction to the habit-forming services being sold to them. Just because we have access to new technology doesn't mean that our society is structured to employ it. Boycott Amazon.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 04:33 am
Can Twitter Legally Bar Trump? The First Amendment Says Yes

There are reasons to question the wisdom of recent actions by Twitter in barring President Trump from its site and Simon & Schuster in canceling the publication of Senator Josh Hawley’s book. But the First Amendment is on their side.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — When Simon & Schuster canceled its plans this week to publish Senator Josh Hawley’s book, he called the action “a direct assault on the First Amendment.”

And when Twitter permanently banned President Trump’s account on Friday, his family and his supporters said similar things. “We are living Orwell’s 1984,” Donald Trump Jr. said — on Twitter. “Free-speech no longer exists in America.”

The companies’ decisions may have been unwise, scholars who study the First Amendment said, but they were perfectly lawful. That is because the First Amendment prohibits government censorship and does not apply to decisions made by private businesses.

It is certainly possible to violate the values embodied in the First Amendment without violating the First Amendment itself. But the basic legal question could hardly be more straightforward, said RonNell Andersen Jones, a law professor at the University of Utah. And, she said, it should not have been lost on Mr. Hawley, who graduated from Yale Law School and served as a law clerk to Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr.

“It’s become popular — even among those who plainly know better — to label all matters restricting anyone’s speech as a ‘First Amendment issue,’” she said. “But the First Amendment limits only government actors, and neither a social media company nor a book publisher is the government. Indeed, they enjoy their own First Amendment rights not to have the government require them to associate with speech when they prefer not to do so.”

But many in the legal community were nonetheless uneasy about the developments, which underscored the enormous power of a handful of social media companies that are largely insulated from accountability and may change positions on what speech is acceptable as executives come and go.

“I want a wide range of ideas, even those I loathe, to be heard, and I think Twitter especially holds a concerning degree of power over public discourse,” said Gregory P. Magarian, a law professor at Washington University in St. Louis.

But Professor Magarian said the president and Mr. Hawley were in particularly poor positions to complain.

“The First Amendment doesn’t require any private forum to publish anyone’s speech,” he said. “Neither Twitter nor Simon & Schuster has any obligations under the First Amendment.” He added: “Any suggestion that people like Trump and Hawley, and the viewpoints they espouse, will ever lack meaningful access to public attention is ludicrous. We should worry about private power over speech, but presidents and senators are the last speakers we need to worry about.”

The American Civil Liberties Union, too, said the free speech interests involved in suspending Mr. Trump’s Twitter account were complicated.

“We understand the desire to permanently suspend him now, but it should concern everyone when companies like Facebook and Twitter wield the unchecked power to remove people from platforms that have become indispensable for the speech of billions,” said Kate Ruane, an A.C.L.U. lawyer. “President Trump can turn to his press team or Fox News to communicate with the public, but others — like the many Black, brown and L.G.B.T.Q. activists who have been censored by social media companies — will not have that luxury.”

Mr. Hawley’s book, titled “The Tyranny of Big Tech,” was to have been published in June. In canceling it, Simon & Schuster said that “it will always be our mission to amplify a variety of voices and viewpoints” but that Mr. Hawley had crossed a line in light of “the disturbing, deadly insurrection that took place on Wednesday in Washington.”

“We take seriously our larger public responsibility as citizens,” the company said, “and cannot support Senator Hawley after his role in what became a dangerous threat to our democracy and freedom.”

The publisher was free to make that decision, legal experts said, but that does not mean it was the right one.

nyt/liptak

0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  -3  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 05:17 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:

Amazon is removing Nazi chat site Parler from it’s web hosting site.

True, (exempting the 'Nazi chat site' part), several companies are refusing to sell web hosting services to a third party not involved in the events of Jan. 6, in order to silence one or more of their customers who they disagree with.

If you cannot see the many illegal/unconstitutional problems with this, we're just fucked.

I wonder how this crowd would have felt about the signers of the Declaration of Independence? I mean it was ****'n high treason! They should have their pens taken away! They should not be allowed to purchase parchment!

Limeys may be excused from answering if desired.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 05:23 am
@Leadfoot,
This is so typical of you lot, first of all you want private enterprise to run everything then you get upset when it acts like a private concern.

Nobody is shutting these Nazis up, they don’t want to be associated with them.

They can make their own servers if they want.

Parler is not a free speech site, it’s a Nazi site, try posting something remotely progressive and you will be banned.



izzythepush
 
  2  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 05:25 am
@Leadfoot,
Why the **** are you talking to me about the ******* Declaration of Independence? I’m not American, I don’t give a **** about it.

And as we’re now using abusive xenophobic terms I’ll refer to you as a Septic.
farmerman
 
  4  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 05:33 am
@Leadfoot,
thats another Leadfoot stretch. When one thing directly affects th other then you should bring it up. If it is, as you say, preemptive control of business competitors, then(IMHO) that issue should be adjudicated separately and I believe it will be resolved (not to everyones liking Im sure)

However, removing potentially seditious speech from a private forum that has its own RULES OF SERVICE (perhaps you should read our own Roberts"rules of order") surely does NOT compare with the manifesto of a colony breaking from its parent nation and therein stating its reasons for the break.

Robrt has been so generous in frequently providing "all expense paid vacations" fromA2k for "special people" (who try to tank polite discourse with vile and often totally insane diversions)
Leadfoot
 
  -2  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 05:45 am
@izzythepush,
Read the ******* post, I said limeys are exempt.

- Yank
Leadfoot
 
  -2  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 05:48 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Robrt has been so generous in frequently providing "all expense paid vacations" fromA2k for "special people" (who try to tank polite discourse with vile and often totally insane diversions).

Thanks, I think you’re special too.

Fortunately, Robert seems able to recognize legitimate argument, unlike many here.
snood
 
  4  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 05:56 am
Is it misogyny to point out a significant change from the perfectly made -up and manicured evil liar usually presented, to the disheveled, unkempt evil liar who appeared on 1/7?

 https://iili.io/KQ3XCx.jpg
Leadfoot
 
  -2  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 05:57 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
They can make their own servers if they want.


Would you also stipulate that gay couples getting married can start their own bakery? Black people can start their own bus lines? Etc, etc.

Personally, I think the bakery owner was an idiot.
farmerman
 
  2  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 06:09 am
@Leadfoot,
A business plan i just that. You try to put an idea to work within a belief that
1Youre idea is sound

2People will want to support your idea

I remember , once, at the beach where they were selling fried bacon on a stick covered with sweet sauces or several kinds of dippy sauces.
DUM IDEA, lasted one summer. I had one of the BOAS (Thats what they called it bacon on a stick) Bacon ripple ice cream--not bad but not the exckusive flavor. Fried bacon on a stick as the only product you sell? ,DUM DUMMY DUM

farmerman
 
  2  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 06:13 am
@Leadfoot,
did you ever get one of Robert's vacations? The "youre special too" implies so.
Hmm, what have you ever said that deserved banishing you on an iceberg for a coupla weeks?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 06:14 am
@Leadfoot,
There’s a difference between discriminating against people because of who they are and not dealing with those who promote hate and violence.

Nobody is born a Nazi, it’s a choice they make for themselves.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 06:15 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
...several companies are refusing to sell web hosting services to a third party not involved in the events of Jan. 6, in order to silence one or more of their customers who they disagree with.

There's no law which says they have to post content encouraging violence, murder, and insurrection. If Parler won't police itself, forcing the servers to distribute that sort of material isn't really "free speech" either.

Quote:

If you cannot see the many illegal/unconstitutional problems with this, we're just fucked.

I can see that it raises some issues but using the law to coerce media companies into spreading disinformation and instigating illegal behavior raises just as many issues.

Quote:
I wonder how this crowd would have felt about the signers of the Declaration of Independence?

This attempted analogy is totally inept.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Sun 10 Jan, 2021 06:16 am
@farmerman,
My business was so infinitely 'smaller niche' than that, and I didn’t even have a business plan. The damn thing succeeded so well I couldn’t kill it. I gave it to my second ex wife. Best business partner I ever had.
0 Replies
 
 

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