192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 07:00 am
@blatham,
I don’t, if Assange should be extradited anywhere it should be to Sweden to face the rape allegations. If that’s not going to happen he should be allowed to return home to Australia.

He is not an American citizen and is not subject to American laws.
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 07:26 am
@izzythepush,
I'm not sure how agreements between coalition partners might apply legally, so can't speak to that.
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 07:32 am

https://iili.io/KSd1pt.jpg
engineer
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 07:34 am
@blatham,
I think it is absolutely true that when someone feels under attack they will back into a corner and fight back as hard as they can. It has to be hard as a true conservative to look at what Trump has done and how the Republican party has fallen in line and not be concerned, but given the level of vitriol I think most would cling to their positions are go silent rather than face the ridicule of admitting their doubts.
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 07:35 am
Today's winner in the Spinning-Eyed Lunatic category. Congrats!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq3vL9hWMAEjTzb?format=jpg&name=medium
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  0  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 07:37 am
@Region Philbis,
I saw that when he posted. It's good.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 07:42 am
@izzythepush,
Sweden dropped the extradition request and the rape allegations.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/19/sweden-drops-julian-assange-investigation
Quote:
After conducting a comprehensive assessment of what has emerged during the course of the preliminary investigation I then make the assessment that the evidence is not strong enough to form the basis for filing an indictment,”


Further, when they did they wanted to extradite - they wanted to do so purely for questioning as they did not have enough to charge him...which other than being extraordinary in itself (both the extradition request made by a country without enough to charge a person, and the granting of the request by the receiving country)....they could easily have been done over skype.

From wikipedia
Quote:
Assange v The Swedish Prosecution Authority were the set of legal proceedings in the United Kingdom concerning the requested extradition of Julian Assange to Sweden to further a 'preliminary investigation' into accusations of his having committed sexual offences


Brittain wasted 14 million pounds putting a 24hour guard for a breach of bail...which it has never, ever done before.

Given the extra-ordinary legal circumstances that Assange finds himself in, there is little doubt the countries were working from the start in concert with each other - for the benefit of the US.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 07:45 am
@vikorr,
I agree, he should go back to Australia.

If America has enough to extradite Assange they should do it in Australia where he is a citizen.
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 07:51 am
@engineer,
I've felt such discomfort so understand it and empathize. But what I think they get wrong or what their sensitivities exaggerate is that most of us won't respond with vitriol. Quite the opposite. Still, I understand the fear of giving an inch and thus setting themselves up for calls to go much further.
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 07:52 am
@vikorr,
Good post.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 07:53 am
@izzythepush,
I guess whoever has custody of them at the time likely has laws enabling them to hear extradition requests.

I just looked at Australias Extradition Act - Assange meets the requirement for a request to be considered (presuming they've issued a warrant in the US). But there's also ground to object against his extradition:

For the purposes of this Act, there is an extradition objection in relation to an extradition offence for which the surrender of a person is sought by an extradition country if:

(a) the extradition offence is a political offence in relation to the extradition country; or

(b) the surrender of the person, in so far as it purports to be sought for the extradition offence, is actually sought for the purpose of prosecuting or punishing the person on account of his or her race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, nationality or political opinions or for a political offence in relation to the extradition country; or

(c) on surrender to the extradition country in respect of the extradition offence, the person may be prejudiced at his or her trial, or punished, detained or restricted in his or her personal liberty, by reason of his or her race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, nationality or political opinions; or
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 07:59 am
@vikorr,
He is anAustralian citizen, it should be down to Australia whether or not he should be extradited. We should keep out of it.
snood
 
  4  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 09:25 am
For some reason, some of the discussion here - lamenting the loss of the collegiality and insightful commentary of conservative A2Kers made me flash on a scene from the 1992 movie The Last of the Mohicans.

It’s a scene that occurs right after the Marquis de Montcalm has defeated Colonel Munro, and they have negotiated terms of Munro’s surrender. Montcalm’s Huron scout Magua is voicing his confusion and displeasure to Montcalm about how quickly and easily the French and English generals have become friends. “Not a warrior has a scalp, and the white men become friends”.

Montcalm explains to him that the surrender was what his masters in France wanted and that he has no further reason, presently, to remain enemies with Munro. Magua replies “Magua took the hatchet to color it with blood… Only when it is red, then it will be buried.”

I know, I know - random and strange - but bear with me a second...

I had a difference of opinion a couple months back with Frank Apisa. The gist of the argument as far as I can recall is that I called him a hypocrite for having close friends who were Trump supporters and he was understandably offended.

I guess my point of bringing up these random things is that it doesn’t flow naturally with me to become (or remain) friendly with a person who supports Donald Trump. I haven’t always been this way. I married a woman who voted for George W.

But something changed for me in 2016. I see Trump’s level of ignorance and evil as unprecedented for a president of the United States in my lifetime. I have tried - in person with real people that I would much rather be collegial with - but I cannot wrap my head or twist my heart around into shapes that accommodate just overlooking the fact that they give moral and financial support to an evil and grossly destructive man.

I just can’t do it. I see politics in 21st century America as war. I see the stakes as democracy itself; as truth itself; as life and ******* death.

I see less and less room for compromise. I think republicans as a political force need to be crushed and brought to heel. I think that if people are true to their most basic convictions it is just naturally going to not always be socially comfortable. I see that tension as normal and sane. I see striving to always eliminate or mitigate that tension by some artificial means as the opposite of normal and sane.

But that’s me.



revelette3
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 09:52 am
Trump’s Phone Call Is What Coup Fever Looks Like

Quote:
Like the little boy haunted by ghosts in the horror movie “The Sixth Sense,” President Donald Trump sees dead people everywhere. He thinks at least 5,000 of them voted in Georgia during the presidential election and were part of a broader conspiracy that deprived him of a victory in the state.

In an unhinged, extraordinary phone call Saturday with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, a Republican, and Ryan Germany, Raffensperger’s general counsel, Trump tried to strong-arm them into conceding that President-elect Joe Biden hadn’t really secured 11,799 more votes than he did. And he encouraged them to find ways to invalidate those votes, according to a recording of the conversation obtained by the Washington Post (which broke the story) and Bloomberg News.

“So what are we going to do here folks?” Trump asked during the one-hour call. “I only need 11,000 votes. Fellas, I need 11,000 votes.” Trump, who oversees the Justice Department for 16 more days, also threatened both men, warning that they could be charged with a crime if they failed to support his voting fraud fairytales.

The phone call memorialized what corruption and a desire to orchestrate a political coup sound like and, happily, Raffensperger and Germany were unswayed. “The challenge that you have is the data you have is wrong,” Raffensperger told Trump, who continued trying to steamroll him anyway. “What we’re seeing is not at all what you’re describing,” said Germany.

Trump has been at this for decades, so there’s nothing surprising here. He spent years trying to bully, buy off or corrupt regulators, politicians, law enforcement officials and others he encountered as a developer, casino operator, media fixture and politician. He was impeached for trying to convince Ukraine’s president during a phone call to find dirt on Biden that would undermine his presidential candidacy.

But it is surprising how easily Trump continues to corrupt so many around him. Too few in his party are willing to tell the president, as Germany did, that reality doesn’t comport with his lies. Cowed by Trump’s political traction or eager to jump on his gravy train, too few are willing to abandon him publicly so voters’ faith in the electoral process, democracy and the rule of law isn’t permanently undercut.

Instead, we’re treated to some of Trump’s more cartoonish and dangerous enablers getting in on the act. His chief of staff, Mark Meadows, encouraged Georgia’s officials on the call to look at the election results “more fully” and, “in the spirit of cooperation,” to “find a path forward” outside of the court system (which has already roundly rejected Trump’s fraud claims). On Saturday night, Meadows took to Twitter to encourage members of Congress to object to certification of the presidential election Jan. 6. “It’s time to fight back,” he advised.

Last week, Senator Josh Hawley, a Missouri Republican, said he planned to object to certification, citing Pennsylvania’s results specifically. Eleven other sitting and incoming Republican senators, including Ted Cruz, have since said they’ll join Hawley. This is performance art for an audience in the Oval Office and in the senators’ home states. It won’t stop Biden from becoming president, but further embeds Trumpism as an operating principle in the GOP and in the federal government.

Seven Republicans in the House of Representatives have broken with their party and said any effort to reject states’ electors is unconstitutional. A handful in the Senate, including Mitch McConnell, Mitt Romney, Lisa Murkowski and Pat Toomey, have said much the same. I may be missing a few other like-minded souls, but only a small portion of the 249 Republicans in Congress have spoken up. Imagine how the GOP would have responded if Barack Obama tried to corrupt a secretary of state to overturn election results, and ponder the radio silence enveloping the party now.

Even if Trump managed to overturn Georgia’s results, it wouldn’t provide the electoral votes he needs to overcome Biden. He’s assuredly aware of this, but he’s so unspooled – and so unable to come to terms with losing – that he’s willing to try torching democracy to soothe himself. He’s also calling for rallies that may well turn into riots in Washington on Wednesday. How all of that unfolds will speak, in part, to the future of the institutions, processes and voters Trump has spent so much time poisoning.

An administration that began in the shadow of an “Access Hollywood” tape is winding down in the shadow of an Access Georgia tape. While it’s possible that Trump committed a crime by attempting to interfere with federal and state elections in the phone call, there may not be enough time or evidence to do anything about it.

“What a schmuck I was,” Trump said at one point, bemoaning the lack of support he felt he received from Georgia’s governor. “But that’s the way it is. That’s the way it is.”

Indeed.


I wonder if that is the first such phone call Trump has made to various election officials and senators and congressmen? I doubt it. I mean how many times can they demand another counting or audit before they are satisfied?
0 Replies
 
revelette3
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 10:00 am
@snood,
What if your wife(don't know and I won't ask) is a Trump supporter and you have married to her for a number of years. Would you consider divorce?

I reminds me of a (going by vague memory) passage in the Bible with one of the epistles and the subject of unbelievers and marriage comes up. It is advised not to divorce, but to remain and maybe by example at some point they will have been persuaded.

Or even just best friends with someone for some long years.

I won't go out of my way to become friends with Trump supporters, (won't be hostile)but, if I had a relationship with someone I personally wouldn't let politics or even religion interfere. Although it does cause some mighty big uncomfortable fights, but that is another story.
revelette3
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 10:06 am
@vikorr,
Speaking as an American here is my 2 cents worth of an opinion. I no longer care about those folks. It just seems as though we have bigger things to worry about. I imagine if the guy was allowed to go free, he would just go back to dealing in hacking and calling it freedom of press. Let him. Snowdon is a different story. I agree with jitterbug there.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 10:11 am
@revelette3,
revelette3 wrote:

What if your wife(don't know and I won't ask) is a Trump supporter and you have married to her for a number of years. Would you consider divorce?

I reminds me of a (going by vague memory) passage in the Bible with one of the epistles and the subject of unbelievers and marriage comes up. It is advised not to divorce, but to remain and maybe by example at some point they will have been persuaded.

Or even just best friends with someone for some long years.

I won't go out of my way to become friends with Trump supporters, (won't be hostile)but, if I had a relationship with someone I personally wouldn't let politics or even religion interfere. Although it does cause some mighty big uncomfortable fights, but that is another story.



Thankfully have never had that particular set of circumstances. My wife only voted for Bush once, and said she regretted it.
hightor
 
  2  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 10:11 am
@revelette3,
I actually have some regrets over a hyperbolic post I made a while back when layman was here. I made some blanket condemnation of conservatives in a careless (and probably obscenity-laden) manner because I was mocking layman's vehement posting style. Unfortunately, georgeob showed up and took offense at it and unleashed on me, and he pretty much left the site around that time. It's sort of funny because when I posted it I thought to myself, "I hope georgeob doesn't read this." Oh well.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 10:26 am
@hightor,
That’s the difference, you regret going a bit too far. That lot don’t, they throw out insults and vitriol like there’s no tomorrow.
revelette3
 
  1  
Mon 4 Jan, 2021 10:36 am
@snood,
Maybe she was persuaded by his "sensitive republican" image. I liked George Bush senior because I like his Randy Travis points of light thing.

Everyone gets the idea that George Bush wasn't really the one who was part of that whole middle east domination thing and the substituting the word torture with "enhanced interrogations." Who really knows? Was Bush an active President or was he a puppet? I don't know that anyone really knows. Also, who doesn't like the idea of lower taxes and getting tax money back from the government? It is only later when you actually need government things that you realize how important taxes are. Now after four years of Trump, Bush Jr has become a saint in comparison.
0 Replies
 
 

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