@coldjoint,
Looks like voter fraud WAS caused by a voter in PA(It was 2 additional votes for Trump by a guy who had som dead relatives choose Donnie)
ALSO, in GA its been lrnd that 189000 voters were disenfranchised by the GOP who discarded the votes of a predominntly black county
Don't feel like getting into the details; but, looks like theRump has just screwed the pooch! He has definitely proven that his campaign for the 2016 Presidency was a criminal activity. By handing all those pardons, he has given prima facie evidence that anyone who accepted them are criminals. Neat, even though most of their crimes were priviously proven.
theRump running a criminal empire out of the WH. What an ass!
Now, he will pardon himself, therefore admitting he is a criminal, including his entire family and most of his cabinet. So, family a criminal enterprise also (really, nothing new here). The pardons for himself and family will be blank as to crimes and future leaning. Will the family pardons hold? However, to any crime committed - past, present and in the future. How much of this will hold SCOTUS scrutiny?
As to the pardon for himself? This will go to SCOTUS early and it is believed he can not do this! It just won't hold. So he goes on trial.......
All these people he pardoned go before his Grand Jury. The DA asks them questions -
1) they tell lies, they go to jail; or,
2) they won't answer so the DA grants immunity. They still don't answer, they go to jail because of the Pardon or if they now tell a lie, they go to jail; or,
3) they tell the truth, theRump goes to jail.
Crime doesn't pay!
BTW, I don't believe SCOTUS will allow open ended, future crimes by family members. How could this be possible, they could do anything they want to do, criminally for a future period of time, uncertain? Surely not!
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
Quote:theRump running a criminal empire out of the WH.
Trump is fighting a criminal empire that surrounds him. The corruption he has seen will be revealed whether he is in or out of office.
Here's an example of how he's "fighting":
Trump vowed to drain the swamp. Then he granted clemency to three former congressmen convicted of federal crimes. The convicted appear exactly to exemplify the very swamp that Trump said he would drain.
Apparently, he's more flattering than fighting.
US peoples and well informed others.
Serious question
What’s with this presidential pardon thing?
Is it in your constitution?
What was it supposed to accomplish?
@Borat Sister,
Quote:What was it supposed to accomplish?
Incoming admins pardon the outgoing.
That's how it's supposed to work, but Trump made a point of saying he was going to expose the crimes of the Obama/Clinton/Biden era, which is why they were gunning for him, even before he got elected to office.
@Borat Sister,
Quote:
What’s with this presidential pardon thing?
It's one of those horrible vestiges of an earlier time and, like the 2nd Amendment, should be revisited and rewritten to reflect present-day reality.
Trump's pardons expose another gap in US legal system
Quote:The wave of corrupt presidential pardons began Wednesday.
Christmas came three days early to felons George Papadopoulos, former Congressmen Duncan Hunter and Chris Collins, and 17 others.
Hunter and Collins lined their family's pockets by misusing campaign funds or inside information. Papadopoulos lied to the FBI in the Mueller investigation.
More pardons may drop by the time this column publishes. The president is apparently so desperate about his coming vulnerability to indictments that he’s settled on a strategy of spreading pardons to develop herd immunity to prosecution.
America has no vaccine for this, but some future therapeutics are under development.
Among them is the Protecting Our Democracy Act, legislation that would ensure that the pardon power’s most corrupt and damaging uses are brought into the light of day.
Controversial presidential pardons are nothing new. George Washington first used the clemency power in 1795, when he pardoned two men convicted of treason for organizing the so-called Whiskey Rebellion. Two centuries later, President Gerald Ford again roiled the nation when he granted clemency to his predecessor, Richard Nixon, after Watergate.
And allegations of corruption are a familiar feature of pardons. In 2000, Bill Clinton pardoned financier Marc Rich. Rich’s family then made substantial financial contributions to Hillary Clinton’s New York senatorial campaign and to building Clinton’s presidential library.
But, as was the case with earlier pardon scandals, calls for reform went unheeded. That could soon change.
The Protecting Our Democracy Act would create transparency requirements involving disclosure of documents connected with “self-serving” uses of the president’s clemency power.
For now, however, the country must endure a sordid series of pardons like Trump’s July 2020 commutation of Roger Stone’s sentence after his jury conviction for lying to Congress. As Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) tweeted: “Unprecedented, historic corruption: an American president commutes the sentence of a person convicted by a jury of lying to shield that very president.”
Legal grounds for reforming the pardon power are found in the Constitution itself.
Article II’s “Take Care” Clause imposes on presidents the duty to faithfully execute the laws, and is properly interpreted to honor the Founders’ premise that we are a “government of laws not men.” A president using clemency for criminals who protect him from prosecution contradicts that principle.
Transparency would go a long way to deterring such abuses, and — where they do occur — to providing for accountability.
Take for example, Trump’s November 2020 pardon of Michael Flynn. Flynn confessed to lying to the FBI in violation of 18 USC §1001. Had the Protecting Our Democracy Act been in effect, Congress could have compelled the Justice Department to provide documentary materials relating to Flynn’s investigation.
Congress would also have new authority to subpoena White House communications relating to the pardon. While presidential assertions of “executive privilege” could be expected, some — including those relating to a corrupt bargain — would fail.
Similarly, the Act would provide for transparency should Trump’s ex-campaign chief, Paul Manafort get a Christmas or New Year’s pardon. Manafort’s conviction arose from an investigation of the president.
The Protecting Our Democracy Act would address the ability of future presidents to pardon themselves. The bill states that presidential self-pardons are unlawful.
The Justice Department itself issued a Nixon-era opinion about the impermissibility of such pardons. The opinion starts by reciting “the fundamental rule that no person may be the judge in his own case.”
To be sure, there are separation-of-powers questions about Congress’ limiting the scope of the pardon power. At minimum, in a future court challenge, the Justice Department could invoke Congress’ legislative declaration in the act as powerful support for the DOJ’s own determination.
Over four years, Trump has exposed many gaps in our legal system. The holes involving presidential accountability for abusing the pardon power are among the first that need addressing. As Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis once correctly observed, “If the broad light of day could be let in upon men’s actions, it would purify them as the sun disinfects.”
thehill
@Borat Sister,
SImply stated, Theres the thing called the "PArdon Clause" > Its in Article II of the main body of the Constitution which assembles the presidents duties and privileges.
He can grant reprieves and Pardons for all Fed Crimes except impeachment. As Hightor said, it and a few other clauses and amendments need major reviews by the grownups.
@farmerman,
Pardons are a remnant of traditional absolutist cabinet justice and sovereignty.
The way Trump acts fits in well, because cabinet justice was an expression of unlimited state power in an absolute monarchy.
@glitterbag,
Thank you, I was hoping he heard something similar from the classrooms of the kids being taught to read while they tried to teach him not to roll around in ****.
So Chuck and Nancy's "bill" has gone over like a tonne of horse hockey with the plebs.
Talk of total insurrection if it's not "fixed". WTF were they thinking?
a person wrote:So Chuck and Nancy's "bill" has gone over like a tonne of horse hockey with the plebs.
This really doesn't describe the current situation at all. It's not "Chuck and Nancy's" (why the cutesy names?) for starters. "Total insurrection" will not ensue. I guess this person isn't all that familiar with the system of government in the USA — which is a very charitable interpretation of his irrelevant and undiscerning commentary.