192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Builder
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 01:15 am
Recap for the truth. Bye Bye Biden. Is he dead meat?



0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 01:17 am
MontereyJack wrote:

there is no fraud. Trump lies and invents and exaggerates. Until he actually produces something, his word is no good, he's proved that, and he hasn't
produced anything. Powell is a lawyer not a statistician, and she reminds me a lot of that birther dentist of trump's that spent years "proving" obama was born in kenya. If she produces "stats", they'll be shot down by real statisticians in short order. Biden won. By almost seven million votes and still increasing as the last ballots are decided. that's the truth. trump lost. send him back to mar a loco, sic sdny on him and sue the **** out of him by all the people he's cheated and conned over the years. poetic justice.

No fraud? What planet are you on? And you post it five times in a row. You are not doing your side any good. You look like a total fool.
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 02:07 am
The Founders didn’t prepare for a president who refuses to step down, historians say
Quote:
President Trump continued Friday to deny the results of the election, pressuring state officials in Michigan and Georgia to overturn the will of voters and increasing fears that he might refuse to cede power to President-elect Joe Biden.

But those looking to the nation’s Founders, or the Constitution they framed, for answers to such a crisis will come up empty-handed. There is nothing in the Constitution about what to do if a president refuses to step down when his term expires, according to three historians and a constitutional law professor.

“No, the framers did not envisage a president refusing to step down or discuss what should be done in such a situation,” Princeton historian Sean Wilentz said. “There’s obviously nothing in the Constitution about it.”

“This is a contingency that no one would have actively contemplated until this fall,” said historian Jack Rakove, a professor emeritus at Stanford University.

“We [historians] pride ourselves in saying, ‘Don’t worry, this has happened before,’ or, ‘Worry, this has happened before,’ ” said Jeffrey A. Engel, founding director of the Center for Presidential History at Southern Methodist University. “Right now, if all your historians can say is, ‘We are in entirely uncharted waters,’ I don’t even know how the rest of that sentence ends.”

Recently, Engel asked the post-doctoral fellows and undergraduates affiliated with the center — whose areas of study range from George Washington to Trump — to drop everything they were doing and search for any historical clues or parallels.

“They all say they got nothing,” Engel said.

The Constitution says a president’s term expires after four years. That’s it. Congress set Washington’s first term as officially beginning on March 4, 1789. March 4 became the de facto inauguration date until the 12th Amendment made it official in 1804. Then, in 1933, the 20th Amendment moved that date up to Jan. 20 and further specified that a president’s term expires at noon.

This has been followed to the letter throughout U.S. history, when it was both easy and hard, Engel said. He pointed to Inauguration Day in 1989, when Ronald Reagan’s second term was ending and his vice president, George H.W. Bush, was about to assume the presidency. At the close of his last daily briefing in the Oval Office that morning, “Reagan said, ‘Good. Well, I guess I’m done,’ and got out the nuclear codes from his pocket to hand them to Colin Powell, who was national security adviser. And Powell said, ‘Mr. President, you have to hold onto those until you’re not the president anymore’ ” — meaning, until noon.

Some losing presidential candidates have had better claims than Trump to seek legal remedies, Engel said, such as Andrew Jackson in 1824, Richard Nixon in 1960 and Al Gore in 2000, “but none of those people ever gave any hint that they were not going to respect the legitimate authority of whoever ended up winning the process.”

The Biden campaign has said that should Trump refuse to leave on Jan. 20, “the United States government is perfectly capable of escorting trespassers out of the White House.” But that’s simply “common sense,” Wilentz said, not a documented process described in the Constitution or any other law.

But weren’t the Founders obsessed with the encroaching nature of tyranny? Didn’t they worry constantly about a president having too much power?

Most of them did, yes, though not all. During the Constitutional Convention in 1787, Alexander Hamilton floated the idea of presidents serving for life, but when put to a vote, the proposal failed 4 to 6.

The power that scared many Founders the most was that of commander in chief.

Though not necessarily tied to an election loss, “there was a lot of discussion of the possibility that a president with control of the Army might refuse to relinquish power,” said Michael McConnell, a constitutional law professor at Stanford and author of the new book “The President Who Would Not Be King: Executive Power Under the Constitution.”

At the Virginia ratifying convention, Patrick Henry said: “If your American chief be a man of ambition and abilities, how easy is it for him to render himself absolute! The army is in his hands, and if he be a man of address, it will be attached to him; and it will be the subject of long meditation with him to seize the first auspicious moment to accomplish his design.”

Gouverneur Morris, who wrote the preamble to the Constitution, warned that if a president was limited to one term, he might “be unwilling to quit his exaltation … he will be in possession of the sword, a civil war will ensue, and the commander of the victorious army on which ever side, will be the despot of America.”

Perhaps most ominously, one prominent Pennsylvanian identifying himself only as “An Old Whig,” wrote about this in Antifederalist No. 70 and is worth quoting at length:

“Let us suppose this man to be a favorite with his army, and that they are unwilling to part with their beloved commander in chief … and we have only to suppose one thing more, that this man is without the virtue, the moderation and love of liberty which possessed the mind of our late general [Washington] — and this country will be involved at once in war and tyranny.
… We may also suppose, without trespassing upon the bounds of probability, that this man may not have the means of supporting, in private life, the dignity of his former station; that like Caesar, he may be at once ambitious and poor, and deeply involved in debt. Such a man would die a thousand deaths rather than sink from the heights of splendor and power, into obscurity and wretchedness.”


Some Founders who supported the Constitution still predicted that it wouldn’t stop a president from seizing power.

“The first man put at the helm will be a good one,” Benjamin Franklin said, referring to Washington. “Nobody knows what sort may come afterwards. The executive will be always increasing here, as elsewhere, till it ends in a monarchy.”

So why didn’t the Founders plan for this particular scenario, of a president simply denying that he had lost an election? Because they couldn’t even fathom it, Engel said.

“They couldn’t fathom two things: a person who had become president who was so utterly lacking in classical virtue that they would deign or dare to put their own interests above the unity of the country. And the second thing is, I think they couldn’t fathom how any president who would so vividly display disdain for the unity of the country, and mock and undermine the legitimacy of American democracy, why that person [wouldn’t have] already been impeached and removed from office.”
Builder
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 02:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The Founders didn’t prepare for a president who refuses to step down, historians say


It's almost two months to handover, and the only people calling creepy Joe the prez elect are the corrupt media, Walt.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 02:38 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:

Quote:
The Founders didn’t prepare for a president who refuses to step down, historians say


It's almost two months to handover, and the only people calling creepy Joe the prez elect are the corrupt media, Walt.


There are constant leaks of other Republicans doing it, too. They whisper it to reporters off the record or to each other privately. They can’t do it openly because they are punk-ass, lily-livered cowards who will only speak out if they have nothing to lose. Senators Romney and Toomey are acknowledging Trump’s loss and Biden’s win. But that’s only because they are either about to retire, or not in any danger from a re-election fight.

We’ll keep hearing a few here and there that come out and acknowledge the obvious inevitable. But to a person, they will always be in a position where they feel like they are not risking getting a mean tweet storm from the toddler in chief.

They are afraid because Trump’s loyal supporters will do anything he tells them to do, including turning against any senator or congressperson who dares defy the crazy king.
Builder
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 02:54 am
@snood,
Quote:
They are afraid because Trump’s loyal supporters will do anything he tells them to do


You've missed your true calling; soap opera script writer.
I hear the Days of our Lives team is looking for new talent.
snood
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 03:06 am
@Builder,
They are afraid Trump will do to them what he’s trying to do to the Attorney General of Georgia, Raffensperger - an avid Trump supporter who’s just trying to do his job.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/21/trump-gop-elections-challenge-438938

Trump and the demented among his followers are the ones performing a melodrama. But they will have to finally get off the stage on 1/20/21.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 04:15 am
From the Washington Examiner (not generally known as a publication sympathetic to the Left):

It’s Time for Trump to Concede and Move On

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/its-time-for-trump-to-concede-and-move-on

farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 05:10 am
@snood,
Quote:
"It changes the result of the election in Michigan if you take out Wayne County"
RUDY GIULIANI

I think Rudy has finally left the planet.
Ragman
 
  4  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 05:16 am
@farmerman,
With Rudy’s current behavior it makes you wonder how sane he was back in time. How much can you pay a guy to be THAT goofy?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 05:29 am
Yeah I always wince when I see news stories with the theme “what happened to Rudy Giuliani?”. Trying to show such a contrast between the hero of the masses he was to the demented parody we see now.
What happened?
Besides getting older, I say nothing much.
I remember him as a racist authoritarian pig while he was NYC mayor, and a glory-hogging opportunist in the aftermath of 9/11.

Not much different in my estimation from the scumbag we see trying to subvert democracy now.
snood
 
  4  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 05:30 am
 https://iili.io/FE5A5N.jpg
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 05:44 am
@snood,
yeh , thats why we created a concept like "RETIREMENT"

Im sure any of my past staff members would never want me to handle and set any explosive today.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  0  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 06:48 am
From the Annals of Headlines That Didn't Need To Be Written

Quote:
Trump's presidential library will be a shrine to his ego. (WP)
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 06:52 am
@snood,
Quote:
 https://iili.io/FE5A5N.jpg
he never did drain that swamp... yet another campaign promise unfulfilled...
blatham
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 07:16 am
Quote:
...as NYU’s Jay Rosen recently wrote, journalism must reposition itself in the media ecosystem, to seize this moment in history to take a clear stance, in everything it does, as “pro-truth, pro-voting, anti-racist, and aggressively pro-democracy.”

In other words, the reality-based press has to unapologetically stand for something. Otherwise, it’s just a pallid alternative to the excitement of burgeoning lies.

And third, journalists and news organizations have to get much more involved in media literacy — working with educators and advocates to teach people of all ages, but especially students, to distinguish lies from truth, propaganda from factual reporting.
Margaret Sullivan WP

I think this is critically important. Pretty clearly, the US education system has failed horribly in educating young people in critical thinking. I see no reason why this cannot begin in elementary grades.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 07:26 am
@Region Philbis,
Quote:
he never did drain that swamp

And yet the MAGA people consistently repeat the claim and they believe it. "Swamp", like "the deep state", are terms that are so muddy and inexact that they can be particularly effective in manipulating the lazy-minded and the over-whelmed or confused.
neptuneblue
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 07:57 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
And yet the MAGA people consistently repeat the claim and they believe it. "Swamp", like "the deep state", are terms that are so muddy and inexact that they can be particularly effective in manipulating the lazy-minded and the over-whelmed or confused.


I agree.

Such as:

Fact check: Story of Army raid to seize election servers in Germany is false

And

Fact check: Dominion voting machines didn't delete votes from Trump, switch them to Biden
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 08:16 am
@coldjoint,
No fraud. that's why the courts keep blasting trump cases. get with reality. I posted it once and the system would not notify me it was posted, so i reposted it until it would notify me. eventually it eliminates the duplicates. After taking the time to demolish your flawed analyses, I'm damned sure determined to make sure they get posted.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Nov, 2020 09:40 am
I guess former Governor Christie is part of the conspiracy against Trump.


"Quite frankly, the conduct of the President's legal team has been a national embarrassment," said @GovChristie on ABC. “They allege fraud outside the courtroom, but when they go inside the courtroom, they don't plead fraud and they don't argue fraud.”
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
Copyright © 2020 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.09 seconds on 11/26/2020 at 09:16:07