192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
oralloy
 
  4  
Tue 3 Nov, 2020 10:45 pm
Oregon votes to decriminalize small quantities of any kind of drugs:
https://twitter.com/OregonianPol/status/1323841824901926912
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 12:39 am
Hopefully, there will only be a concession speech left, but for posterity...

Builder
 
  0  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 12:53 am
@McGentrix,
Cruel to show poor ol' creepy Joe doing what they've been bagging the president of doing for ages, mate.

Going on the remaining states, I'd say it's a narrow win for the incumbent.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 01:06 am
Georgia and North Carolina will decide it.

A lot closer than all pundits imagined.
0 Replies
 
FreedomEyeLove
 
  1  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 01:25 am
Guaranteed that voter fraud is going on in multiple states.
Builder
 
  1  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 01:42 am
@FreedomEyeLove,
Do you have some insider information to share?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 01:58 am
Trump's announcement opens the legal battle.

As far as I understand it: the Constitution does not ensure peaceful surrender, but presupposes it.
Builder
 
  2  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 02:05 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The EC will surrender alright. It's a Trump victory, Walter.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 02:12 am
@Builder,
Certainly if Trump succeeds to convince the Supreme Court to intervene in the election process, saying vote counting had to stop.
blatham
 
  -2  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 03:08 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The historical importance of the 2000 election has been evident in many ways but we see that again right at this moment. What Trump may be trying to pull off, I think, is a repeat of the "Brooks Brothers Riot" but rather than have RNC agents causing an image of impending violence, he's been scheming to encourage his "militia" fan base (like the Proud Boys) in conflict with protesters for similar effect, then use that unrest to give the SC a supposed rationale to act and close down vote counting.

I suggest the above because I don't see how he could use the SC to simply shut down vote counting.

But we should also understand that Trump's behavior tonight in his press conference is not anything unusual. He has taken to heart Bannon's advice to "flood the zone with ****", meaning to spread a constant flow of lies and diversions and hate-inducing memes to cause maximal confusion and disorder. It's the same authoritarian strategy we see playing out around the world right now with leaders such as Trump in Europe, the UK, South America and elsewhere, eg the Philippines. The confusion and disorder then justifies police/military involvement and then the courts so as to "regain law and order" for the good of the nation. He has never hidden his admiration of authoritarian leaders nor his envy of their free reign nor his disdain for laws and regulations and norms that might constrain his actions and self-interest.

Trump understands he might well lose. In fact, he surely knows he will almost certainly lose if those votes are counted. And he knows far better than any of us how endangered he will become when he loses the protections inherent in holding the presidency. How will he behave if/when he is out of office? Exactly as he has behaved all along including tonight - he'll fill the zone with **** and confusion and the promotion of hatreds and civic turmoil.
Walter Hinteler
 
  -1  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 03:19 am
@blatham,
The president’s pledge to challenge states still counting votes, and the president’s false claim that he’d already won the election ... is something, the USA and other democracies condemn if done in countries governed by autocrats or dictators.


The USA formerly condemned it should read.
hightor
 
  -2  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 03:36 am
Douthat worries that our system can't produce governing majorities — a few snips:

Quote:
An election is supposed to be a reality check. It promises the finality of decision, in which the back-and-forth of political argument gives way to the undeniability of a particular outcome on a particular day.


Quote:
One factor is the increasingly immersive power of ideological narratives and virtual realities. If you can react to an election loss by retreating immediately into a storyscape where the outcome was a cheat, carried about by means of voter fraud or Russian interference, then the decisiveness of any given outcome will inevitably diminish.

Another factor is the interaction of political polarization with America’s two-party system and constitutional design. A country with two parties that are increasingly ideologically consolidated, and a narrowing band of swing voters in between, will produce fewer landslides and more nail-biters, and more swings back and forth from election to election, than a country with looser and more fluid coalitions. If that country’s electoral system also allows candidates to win the state’s highest office with a minority of the popular vote, then under polarized conditions this scenario will become more commonplace, decoupling the official decision of the election from the apparent preferences of the voting majority.


Quote:
From a systemic perspective, from the point of view of America’s potential governability, even those of us who would oppose much about a Biden presidency could draw something hopeful from the seeming possibility — as of 24 hours ago — of a landslide Democratic win. That would mean that the system can still deliver clear decisions, even if only for one cycle, and it would create incentives for whatever follows Trump in the Republican Party to seek a similarly decisive victory in its turn.


Quote:
Instead at the moment we seem headed toward the indecision of another too-close-to-call and potentially litigated endgame, with razor-thin margins no matter which man wins. Which implies that even under what seemed like favorable conditions for a decisive outcome, the evolving ways we’re polarized — by age, geography, sex, class and faith — are still the more powerful forces, dragging us ever back toward stalemate.

It’s one more sign, as if we needed more, that our system’s method of uniting power with legitimacy is slowly losing both.

blatham
 
  -2  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 03:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Oh yes. The US is a now breath away from becoming a full-blown plutocracy held in place by dictatorial processes. This is a very dangerous point.
oralloy
 
  3  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 03:44 am
@blatham,
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  3  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 03:46 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The president's pledge to challenge states still counting votes, and the president's false claim that he'd already won the election ... is something, the USA and other democracies condemn if done in countries governed by autocrats or dictators.
The USA formerly condemned it should read.

It is reasonable for people to try to prevent the Democrats from cheating again.
oralloy
 
  2  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 03:53 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
then use that unrest to give the SC a supposed rationale to act and close down vote counting.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


blatham wrote:
Trump understands he might well lose. In fact, he surely knows he will almost certainly lose if those votes are counted.

You have no basis for this claim. It's still unclear whether he will win or lose.


blatham wrote:
And he knows far better than any of us how endangered he will become when he loses the protections inherent in holding the presidency.

Outlawing the Democratic Party will put an end to their abuses of power to harm those who disagree with them.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  -1  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 03:53 am
@hightor,
It's a good observation that others have made as well. That someone like Trump who has behaved as he has behaved has not facilitated a wave election is profoundly disheartening. He could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and his base would love him even more.

But Douthat doesn't venture into how this state of affairs have now come about. After all, the US has been a bifurcated, two party nation for much of its history. He also doesn't venture any notions here as to who stands to gain from this situation where two "warring" divisions of the citizenry spend their energies battling and blaming one another. For sure, such commentary or questioning isn't a good fit for the mainstream press with it's bothsidesism habits of thought and institutional allegiances. And that is a big part of our problem, as you know.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  2  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 03:59 am
A perfect example of leftist phony outrage:
https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/1323911304848003072
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  -1  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 04:09 am
Presuming Biden wins and the Republicans hold the Senate, this is the worst possible outcome for a Biden presidency. McConnell, as he did with Obama, will spend all his efforts to ensure conditions prevail that are most likely to produce a failed presidency. If any monies are now allocated to help those in distress from the pandemic, those monies will be profoundly inadequate and made available for McConnell's PR reasons or to develop support for GOP electoral ends. All judicial appointments will be quashed. All progressive bills or any bills that might make citizens think well of the Biden presidency (or of government) will likewise be quashed and a key justification will be "we can't expand the debt". Will he and his party go so far as to hinder mitigation efforts to minimize the spread of the virus? That's a rhetorical question because it is exactly what they've been doing for the last year - all due to electoral considerations. McConnell is that evil. The modern GOP is that evil.
oralloy
 
  1  
Wed 4 Nov, 2020 04:16 am
@blatham,
Sounds good to me. But let's have Mr. Trump appoint some independent prosecutors to endlessly hound Mr. Biden with criminal investigations too.

That said, it is still unclear whether or not there will even be a Biden presidency. I know progressives hate democracy and don't want the voters to have their say, but let's let the voters have their say anyway.
0 Replies
 
 

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