192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 01:11 pm
@oralloy,
Nope, that’s not what it means. A verifiable fact is a fact that several people (ideally anybody) can verify independently. Like if you’d tell me that it’s a full moon tonight, I (and pretty much anyone else) could check it by myself, totally independently from you. Do you understand the concept now?
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 01:13 pm
George Floyd death: Gen Mark Milley sorry for joining Trump walk to church

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53012887

The top US military officer says he was wrong to have joined President Donald Trump during his controversial walk to a damaged church near the White House.

The 1 June event created "a perception of the military involved in domestic politics", Gen Mark Milley said.

Mr Trump walked to the church and held up a Bible after a peaceful protest at the death of African American George Floyd was forcibly dispersed.

The use of troops to tackle the protests has provoked fierce US debate.

Mr Trump has regularly referred to "law and order", calling in the National Guard to the US capital, vowing to deploy the military to other cities and condemning violent protests.

Trump's church visit shocks religious leaders

Some of the mostly peaceful initial protests following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis last month did turn violent with looting in several cities.

But since four police officers were charged in connection with the death, the protests have been more peaceful, spawning an international movement against police brutality and racial inequality.

Video footage of the death in Minneapolis shows a white officer kneeling on Mr Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes.
What did Gen Milley say?

The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff was speaking in a video for a National Defense University commencement ceremony.

He said: "I should not have been there. My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics.

"As a commissioned uniformed officer, it was a mistake that I have learned from, and I sincerely hope we all can learn from it."

Gen Milley added: "We must hold dear the principle of an apolitical military that is so deeply rooted in the very essence of our republic."

He also said he was outraged at the "senseless, brutal killing" of George Floyd.

Gen Milley said: "The protests that have ensued not only speak to his killing but also to centuries of injustice toward African Americans."

The general was wearing battle uniform as he walked with the president and critics said this suggested his support for the deployment of the military against protesters.

Defence Secretary Mark Esper was also on the walk and, although he has not said he was wrong to be there, suggested in a news conference that he thought the walk was for a different purpose of mingling with troops and inspecting damage.

Senior officials told US media that Mr Trump had yelled at Mr Esper after the conference.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 01:19 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
The 1 June event created "a perception of the military involved in domestic politics", Gen Mark Milley said.

Is he worried about Mattis? If he is worried about the military in politics he should be talking to the parade of retired military hacks running their mouths. More hypocrisy.

There is not an honest argument coming from any of Trump's critics.

0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 01:22 pm
@Olivier5,
I agree with your definition too, with the caveat that if you choose to not verify something that doesn't make it unverifiable.

But my definition is equally as valid.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 01:26 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
https://cdn.creators.com/1054/280399/280399_image.jpg

Gun sales are about to go way up.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 01:27 pm
@oralloy,
Mine is more precise, in that it mentions the need for independent verification by several people. That’s a key point.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 01:35 pm
@Olivier5,
You are free to independently verify my facts as much as you like.

But if you choose to not do so, that does not mean they cannot be verified.


If you do chose to verify them, speak up if you find something to contradict my facts.

I may well disagree with the contradiction, but maybe that'll be an interesting conversation.

If you choose to verify my facts and you find that everything I say is true, go ahead and tell everyone that I am completely correct. Cool
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 01:50 pm
@oralloy,
Okay but vice versa, what happens if you chose not to verify a verifiable fact that I propose?
oralloy
 
  -4  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 02:04 pm
@Olivier5,
I will never call anyone else's claims wrong unless I know for a fact that they are wrong and I can prove it.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 02:16 pm
@oralloy,
This is not verifiable, unfortunately.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 02:19 pm
@Olivier5,
Perhaps not, but if there are any issues that you wish to discuss, I'll be happy to justify anything that I've ever said.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 02:33 pm
@oralloy,
Neither is that latter statement verifiable.
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 02:33 pm
@oralloy,
you do it all the time. Get pushed into a corner and you claim what you said was not fact but your opinion and opinions have no truth value. Since all your so-called facts are really opinions, that always gives you an easy out.
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 02:48 pm
Officer Who Violently Shoved Protester in Brooklyn Is Charged With Assault

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/nyregion/nypd-officer-vincent-dandraia-arrest.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200609&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=50521885&segment_id=30438&user_id=0f74ba6d31393b994c7e633fbde7c9cb

The police officer, who was recorded knocking down a young woman who questioned his order, was arrested on Tuesday.

By Ashley Southall

June 9, 2020

Dounya Zayer was at a protest against police brutality in Brooklyn last week when she asked a police officer why he was ordering her to get out of the street.

He responded by shoving her violently back onto the pavement, where she rolled onto her side while clutching the back of her head, a cellphone video showed.

Not long ago, the Police Department probably would have handled the episode as an internal disciplinary matter that might have led to a reprimand or a loss of vacation days, if that.

But on Tuesday, after two weeks of nationwide demonstrations demanding more serious consequences for police misconduct, the officer, Vincent D’Andraia, 28, was arrested and charged with misdemeanor assault for injuring Ms. Zayer, 20, who was hospitalized with a concussion as a result of the encounter.

The arrest appeared to reflect the growing political pressure that the wave of protests have put on the authorities to hold officers responsible for misconduct, and to alter a status quo that has largely allowed those who are accused of violent acts to avoid severe punishment.

The police and prosecutors are considering bringing misconduct or criminal charges against as many as 40 more New York City officers involved in clashes with protesters, law enforcement officials said.

The protests in New York and elsewhere were ignited by the killing in police custody of George Floyd, a black man who died in Minneapolis on May 25 after a white officer knelt on his neck for almost nine minutes.

Officer D’Andraia was patrolling a protest when he encountered Ms. Zayer, who was taking part in it. The cellphone video of the episode, which was recorded by a Newsweek reporter and went viral after he posted it online, showed the officer calling Ms. Zayer a “bitch” and shoving her to the pavement. Officer D’Andraia’s precinct commander was next to him at the time, the video showed.

In addition to the assault charge, Officer D’Andraia was accused in a criminal complaint of criminal mischief, harassment and menacing over the May 29 episode. He did not enter a plea at an arraignment on Tuesday in criminal court in Brooklyn. He was released without bail and ordered to return on Oct. 15. His police union lawyer, Stephen C. Worth, did not return calls seeking commen

The Brooklyn district attorney, Eric Gonzalez, said he would not tolerate the use of excessive force against people exercising their right to peacefully protest.

“This is especially true of those who are sworn to protect us and uphold the law,” Mr. Gonzalez added.

Ms. Zayer’s lawyer, Tahanie Aboushi, said she and her client were disappointed that Officer D’Andraia would not be charged with a felony given how seriously Ms. Zayer had been injured. Ms. Zayer, who has been released from the hospital, has had seizures and headaches since the concussion, Ms. Aboushi said.

“The concern here is that there’s a presentation that justice is being served, and then when the system plays itself out for special interests like law enforcement, it will end up with a dismissal or some kind of violation,” Ms. Aboushi said.

“Dounya does not want that,” she added.

Officer D’Andraia, who had already been suspended without pay, turned himself in early Tuesday at the 84th Precinct in Downtown Brooklyn. He is the first New York City police officer to face charges over his conduct during the protests.

Officer D’Andraia appeared at his arraignment from a holding pen via a video feed. If convicted of the most serious charge, third-degree assault, he could be sentenced to up to a year in jail and be fined $1,000.

Patrick J. Lynch, the Police Benevolent Association’s president, said at a news conference on Tuesday that the officer who killed Mr. Floyd had committed murder. But he cautioned that “all the circumstances” needed to be considered before judging Officer D’Andraia.

Mr. Lynch said Mr. Gonzalez’s decision to charge the officer after saying he would not prosecute protesters for low-level charges like unlawful assembly was a “dereliction of duty.”

“You know what’s on the hearts and minds of everybody who has a shield in their hip pocket today — that who the D.A. did prosecute was a police officer whose boss sent him out there to do a job, who was put in a bad situation during a chaotic time,” Mr. Lynch said.

Several other episodes that were captured on video are being investigated, the police and prosecutors have said. And the Civilian Complaint Review Board, which investigates allegations of police misconduct, said it had received hundreds of complaints since the protests began.

Like Officer D’Andraia, an officer involved in a separate episode was suspended last week after internal affairs investigators concluded that he had violated department policies and should face disciplinary charges.

The second officer, who has not been identified publicly, was videotaped snatching a mask off a man’s face and then pepper-spraying the man during a protest in Brooklyn on May 30. The officer involved in that episode was also expected to be criminally charged, although his arrest was not imminent, two law enforcement officials familiar with the matter said.

The second officer’s lawyer, Stuart London, declined on Monday to comment before the criminal investigation was finished.

On Tuesday, the police commissioner, Dermot F. Shea, said that a third officer, who was videotaped hitting a protester with the door of his unmarked police car in Brooklyn on May 29, was facing departmental charges after an internal affairs investigation.

“While the investigation is still ongoing, there is no doubt in my mind that based on the seriousness of what we’ve seen in recent days, transparency is critical,” Commissioner Shea said.

In a statement, Mr. Lynch, whose union represents about 24,000 active officers, accused Mayor Bill de Blasio top police officials of mishandling the protests and then abandoning officers to “save their own skin.”

“They created the failed strategy for maintaining these demonstrations,” Mr. Lynch said. “They sent police officers out to do the job with no support and no clear plan. They should be the ones facing this mob-rule justice.”

Officer D’Andraia joined the Police Department in January 2015 and he was assigned to the 73rd Precinct in Brooklyn’s Brownsville section. Video that Ms. Zayer shot with her cellphone shows him approaching her as she and other protesters left the Barclays Center. Deputy Inspector Craig Edelman, the precinct commander, is following closely behind.

“Get out of the street,” Officer D’Andraia can be heard saying to Ms. Zayer as she backs away while recording him.

“Why?” she asks.

A moment later, the video ends abruptly as the officer’s right arm rises toward the camera. Ms. Zayer said he threw the device aside before pushing her.

A second video, recorded by Jason Lemon, the Newsweek reporter, shows Officer D’Andraia leaning forward and thrusting his arms into Ms. Zayer’s torso, knocking her down. Ms. Zayer said she hit her head on the pavement.

“I think that Officer D’Andraia is a coward,” she said in an interview with WNBC-TV. “He should never be allowed to wear a badge and a gun again.”

Inspector Edelman was among several officers who were nearby and did not intervene to stop Officer D’Andraia, Mr. Lemon’s video shows. They continued walking after the encounter. Inspector Edelman has been transferred, according to Commissioner Shea.

Ms. Aboushi, Ms. Zayer’s lawyer, said the video was crucial to ensuring that the case was not ignored.

“Without this video, how would she seek justice?” Ms. Aboushi said.

Nate Schweber and Sean Piccoli contributed reporting.

Ashley Southall is a law enforcement reporter focused on crime and policing in New York City. @AshleyatTimes
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 03:01 pm
He and his administration aren't as dumb as they appear. This is a calculated decision. He's holding a campaign rally in a city that saw a black massacre 100 years ago and on the date the black community celebrates the last remaining enslaved African Americans in the Confederacy being emancipated. This CANNOT be a coincidence, especially for someone so concerned with photo opps. Vote this racist POS out!!!!

Donald Trump to restart election rallies on key slavery date

Quote:
US President Donald Trump is to hold his first re-election campaign rally for several months in Tulsa, Oklahoma on the date that African Americans celebrate the end of slavery.
The rally will take place on 19 June, known as "Juneteenth".
The Trump campaign said his Republican Party was proud of its role in winning the Civil War and ending slavery.
The news follows weeks of anti-racism protests sparked by the death of George Floyd, a black man, in police custody.
In 1921 the city of Tulsa was the site of one of the worst massacres of black people in US history.
Mr Trump's rallies, seen as vital for energising his base, were suspended due to the coronavirus outbreak in March.
He faces re-election in November but is lagging behind his Democratic rival, Joe Biden, in the polls.
Correspondents say that while the virus remains a threat, Mr Trump's campaign considers that large crowds at the recent protests will make it harder for his opponents to criticise his rallies.


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/B1FB/production/_112836554_mediaitem112836553.jpg
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 03:06 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
you do it all the time.

No I don't. I can back up every one of my facts.


MontereyJack wrote:
Get pushed into a corner and you claim what you said was not fact but your opinion and opinions have no truth value.

I don't get pushed into corners.

I do express an opinion from time to time however.


MontereyJack wrote:
Since all your so-called facts are really opinions, that always gives you an easy out.

My facts are all actual facts. That's why you are never able to challenge them.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 03:07 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
oralloy wrote:
if there are any issues that you wish to discuss, I'll be happy to justify anything that I've ever said.

Neither is that latter statement verifiable.

Sure it is. Pick a past statement of mine that you find questionable, and see if I can justify what I said.
glitterbag
 
  0  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 03:12 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

revelette1 wrote:
For an instance of some good news, NASCAR bans the confederate flag.

What is good about anti-South bigotry?


I didn't realize you were so supportive of traitors and slavery. So, what's the deal? Do you feel deprived that you can't legally buy and own people? You must have an IQ of 180.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 03:15 pm
@glitterbag,
I've told you before that my posts are not meant for someone with a reading level as low as yours.

You are better off not responding to me. You will look a lot less foolish if you do not.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 11 Jun, 2020 03:24 pm
@oralloy,
No, I cannot measure your happiness level independently. So I can’t verify whether you are happy to justify your self, or unhappy to do so, or doing so in good faith (which is what “happy to do” implies) or in bad faith.
 

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