192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
giujohn
 
  0  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 09:41 am
For those who are confused as to the meaning of the Second Amendment as written in the 18th century all you have to do is substitute a few words to have a clear understanding.

A well educated electorate being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed.

So does that mean that only people who are well-educated should be allowed to keep and read books?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 09:56 am
Trump Values - normal as all get out, dignified and concerned above all with service to the nation.
Quote:
A lawyer for first lady Melania Trump argued in a lawsuit filed Monday that an article falsely alleging she once worked for an escort service hurt her chance to establish “multimillion dollar business relationships” during the years in which she would be “one of the most photographed women in the world.”

The suit, filed Monday in New York State Supreme Court in Manhattan against Mail Media, the owner of the Daily Mail, said the article published by the Daily Mail and its online division last August caused Trump’s brand, Melania, to lose “significant value” as well as “major business opportunities that were otherwise available to her.” The suit noted that the article had damaged Trump’s “unique, once in a lifetime opportunity” to “launch a broad-based commercial brand.”

...“There has never been a first lady of the United States who insinuated that she intended to make a lot of money because of the ‘once-in-a-lifetime’ opportunity of being first lady,” said [Richard] Painter [a White House ethics counsel under President George W. Bush]
SP
He's soooo much like Lincoln.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 09:57 am
@giujohn,
Quote:
I will give you one point. The second amendment was never about hunting... It was always about self defense, whether from hostile Nations, domestic tyrants, or everyday criminals.


Not to even mention them damn injuns, eh, John?
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 10:02 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Today, in the vote on DeVos, we'll discover whether more than two GOP Senators have the personal integrity and any real interest at all in placing American educational quality above partisan fealty. I'm not confident they'll pass this test. The political and intellectual corruption is just too deep.
You are merely postulating that personal integrity and an interest in improving educational quality must necessasarily require a vote against de Vos, propositions that are demonstrably false. There is no test here at all; merely the choices our elected Senators make with respect to consent for this Presidential appointment. Certainly the stakes are high for the AFT - their government sanctioned monoopoly on lifetime employment in failing public schools is at risk here. Staked agsainst them are the free choices of the parents of the children who have been so ill-served by the present system.

The Democrats in the Senate are playing a delaying game with respect to most Trump appointments, probably all they can do with the votes they have. In an equivalent political move, The Republican Senate Majority leader has cited their obstructionism: you have called him "a dick" for doing so. Does that indicate you deny the obstructionism, or merely that you don't like to see it called out?

Apart from expressions of your extreme partisanship in these matters I see little substsance, fact or analysis in your posts. You are merely a spectator in these events and one with no standing regarding their resolution. You scour your magazines, blogs and other sources for excerpts that appear to further your opinions while apdopting a presumed position of authority here that you clearly do not either merit or posess. Hard to tell what may be your motives, but it often appears that this is an important source of personal satisfaction or validation for you - if so it is rather small beer for all the effort.
layman
 
  -2  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 10:13 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Hard to tell what may be your motives, but it often appears that this is an important source of personal satisfaction or validation for you ...


I figure Blathy is a troll for people like you (and me) who have an innate dislike for, and instinctive adverse reaction to, pompous-ass pontification in the promulgation of pernicious propaganda, eh, George?

He's knows he's like a car wreck. Most people can't resist the temptation to slow down, if only to see the gory spectacle, and some will actually stop to see if there's something they can do to help.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  5  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 10:22 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

The Democrats in the Senate are playing a delaying game with respect to most Trump appointments...


Yeah? I don't agree. Sessions' nomination is being postponed by republicans. Puzder is being vetted still and looks like he at one point hired an illegal immigrant (something that has brought down other nominees). Others haven't finished filling out their disclosure forms.

Any appointment you're particularly referencing here or are you just parroting a talking point?
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 10:29 am
@maporsche,
No, I'm merely observing the obvious fact that the Democrats in the Senate are doing exactly what their Leader Chuck Schumer said they would do, and what such minorities often do in these circumstances. It's true the Republicans will need Jeff Sessions's vote today, but the delays so far were quite independent of that- merely an unexpected fotuitous result for the GOP.

And what are you parroting?
maporsche
 
  4  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 10:37 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

No, I'm merely observing the obvious fact that the Democrats in the Senate are doing exactly what their Leader Chuck Schumer said they would do, and what such minorities often do in these circumstances. It's true the Republicans will need Jeff Sessions's vote today, but the delays so far were quite independent of that- merely an unexpected fotuitous result for the GOP.

And what are you parroting?


Do you think appointments should occur before financial disclosures and whatnot are submitted?
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 10:48 am
@maporsche,
Ideally, yes. However it isn't the most important thing relative to these appointments: these forms are merely shopping lists for fault finding by the opposition, and so far mothing material has come out of them. It has been a useful vehicle to Democrats for expression of their outrage and surprise at loosing the election, but not much else.
maporsche
 
  5  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 11:05 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Ideally, yes. However it isn't the most important thing relative to these appointments: these forms are merely shopping lists for fault finding by the opposition, and so far mothing material has come out of them. It has been a useful vehicle to Democrats for expression of their outrage and surprise at loosing the election, but not much else.


I find this take....interesting. I don't believe you truly think these disclosures are unimportant. The fact that nothing has been found is inconsequential to the fact that the disclosures themselves are important to the transparency of our government.

Fill out the form, divest yourself from entanglements...or don't work for government.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 11:08 am
@hightor,
Quote:
What difference does it make? None of the other amendments mention a militia either.

So you maintain that it is the only right in the Bill of Rights that only applies to a group and not the individual, even thought the Bill of Rights is all about individual liberties? The entire point of our country is based on individual liberty, except the 2nd Amendment?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 11:08 am
@georgeob1,
Yes, A vote against DeVos is right and proper.
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/betsy-devos/statements/byruling/false/
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 11:15 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
History quickly confounded Francis Fukuyama's boastful claim of its demise in the early 1990s, and the game continues to change.

In fact, history accelerated at this precise time, with a massive escalation of inequalities in the US and elsewhere (capitalism had won, so the capitalists went amock), exponential growth of the lobbying industry, and the trade globalization agenda going full speed which would later lead to the growth of China as the "world factory". It's also the moment when the Islamist movement starts to pivot away from the Afghan war with the soviets (now defeated), and towards a confrontation with the West instead, which will lead to 9/11, the Patriot Act and the increased surveillance of democratic societies, etc. It's also when the EU starts to grow beyond the ex-iron curtain, leading to the unmanageable set of 26 countries that we have now.

As I see it, all the threats to democracy that we face today -- the paralysis of both Washington and Bruxells, the universal surveillance by intell agencies, the growth of autocratic nations such as China and Russia, the threats from the Muslim world, the oversised influenced of the rich vs the poor -- they all come from this moment at the end of the past century, when democracy was seen as having won the historical contest once and for good, and went into a sort of over-reach.
hightor
 
  3  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 11:44 am
@Baldimo,
As I've said repeatedly, it does apply to individuals; it says "the right of the people", not the right of the militia. It just happens that it is the only amendment that has an institution (the "Militia") associated with it.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 12:03 pm
@hightor,
You are in agreement then, the 2nd Amendment relates to an individual right to have a gun, and not a groups right to have a gun.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 12:03 pm
@giujohn,
Quote:
I note with interest how you never answered my questions regarding the Bill of Rights or the Second Amendment or for instance the definition of the words well regulated.

Oh come on, man — you can't get butt-hurt anytime someone fails to respond on a freaking message board. Especially on a thread that fills up as rapidly as this one does.

"Well regulated" could mean that the militia itself was trained and subject to law, or it could refer to the condition of the firearms themselves, kept clean and in working condition. The amendment is poorly written and the document does not spell that out in detail. And I'll state again, individual self defense is not mentioned — that wasn't the purpose of the militia. It was deemed — explicitly — necessary for state security, not individual safety. I'm not saying that courts are wrong to derive an extension which covers self-defense but that is not what the amendment literally says.

My point is not to argue about your understanding of the 2nd Amendment. My point is that if social conditions warrant a change in interpretation the court can change accomplish that with a 5-4 vote.

Quote:
So does that mean that only people who are well-educated should be allowed to keep and read books?


No, but it does open up the possibility, remote as it may be, that books deemed to have no educational value might not be protected. Litigation heaven!
georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 12:31 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
Probably the terrorist and whomever helped them in any way.

So, an anti-abortionist blows up another medical facility and its staff or another white supremacist goes on a killing spree of Muslims or Sikhs with turbans or blacks or someone with the wrong skin and ethnicity and blame is properly attributed only to the individual committing the act and his/her direct associates. Is that your answer? No fault or blame to be directed at those cultural institutions and politicians that have refused to deal with such entities, or to even admit they are real and that they constitute terrorism?

This apprars to be a convincing argument for restricting travel and immigration from countries plagued with high levels of Islamic fundamentalism and advocates of Sharia law and the suppression of unbelievers. Is that your intent?

blatham wrote:

If an individual, relatively recently arrived from a majority Muslim country, who holds a hidden hatred of the US and an agenda to hurt Americans (or Brits or Dutch etc) commits such an act, then fault will fall to whichever agency failed to detect the fellow's history and motivations (understanding that this can be exceedingly difficult as it is in determining dangerous individuals such as the American kids who go into schools and murder children).
The difficulty is real and readily acknowledged. Given that the supply of candidate immigrants so far exceeds our ability to assimilate them there is then no reason for us to take the chance with countries that are known prolific sources of such hostile behavior.

blatham wrote:

And if another attempt succeeds, there's no valid reason to imagine that there'd be a third or fourth, etc. Your chances of being killed by a terrorist are so exceedingly small that they are essentially non-existent.

This is nonsense. Bill Clinton did little after our Barracks was bombed in Saudi Arabia,; our Embassies in East Africa were blown up, the first attempt at bombing the World trade center occurred and the USS Cole was bombed in the port of Aden. However all of these actions were the result of a continuing effort by al Quaeda and 9/11 was indeed the culmination.

The statistical probability of death or serious injury from an Islamist terrorist attack is a good deal higher than that posed by environmental toxins which we spend billions each year treating and removing.

blatham wrote:

The danger to you and to your liberties arise out of a police-state type of response internally and out of a furtherance of politicians or other powerful cultural voices promoting a language of religious war that will facilitate extremist Muslim recruiting and terrorist activity.
British PM neville Chamberlain used an analogous and initially successful argument with respect to Naziism in 1936. It didn't achieve the intended result.


maporsche
 
  7  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 12:34 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

The statistical probability of death or serious injury from an Islamist terrorist attack is a good deal higher than that posed by environmental toxins which we spend billions each year treating and removing.


THIS is nonsense.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 12:38 pm
@maporsche,
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/toxins-all-around-us/
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 7 Feb, 2017 12:39 pm
@Olivier5,
Interesting. It is relatively easy to see (in retrospect only) certain apparently pivotal moments in history from which much of subsequent history appears to flow. The problem is there are many such moments, most of which can be seen as equally pivotal in a world of endless complexity. For example the events leading up to and during WWI including the Sykes Picot Agreement between Britain and France; the British use of Arab nationalism in taking down the Ottoman Empire and their deceptive promises to the Hashemites and the Rothschilds can be seen as the pivotal events for the subsequent political trajectory of the Middle East and Islam. I believe there are many such candidate pivotal events , each like pebbles in a shallow stream leaving its wake and contribution to the complex, turbulent stream beyond them.
 

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