monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

@georgeob1,

This, by Arendt might aid you two fellows
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1978/10/26/hannah-arendt-from-an-interview/

@georgeob1,

by the way... my book arrives tomorrow, amazon promises. Should be interesting.

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@blatham,

I read it and didn't find it particularly illuminating or relevant to the meaning of propaganda..

Arendt appeared to be referring to her experience/observations of the Nazi Government in Germany, though it could as well have been applied to the contemporaneous USSR. She eloquently addressed some of the her subjective reactions to the transformation of cultural values and vocabulary in a Totalitarian state, but all this has been done at length by many authors.. Koestler did better (In my view) in Darkness at Noon. Orwell was, as ever, more concrete and specific (but lacking in emotional appeal) .

I think you thoughtlessly project this stuff on any expressions of points of view you don't like. I have decidedly conservative values and one of them is tolerance. I and those around me are each entitled to evaluate the things and ideas around us according to our own intellectual values and moral compasses. I reject the sappy and platitudinous expressions of political correctitude which we are all, in effect, asked (or required) to embrace, but at the same time am and believe we all should be tolerant of those who believe or behave differently as long as they present no direct or immediate threat. Live and let live,..... Do unto others etc. ..... are very good rules. Mere isagreement is no threat to any rational person.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Mere disagreement is no threat to any rational person.

Try tellin that to the lefties at Berkeley, eh, George? Or most any cheese-eater around this here joint, for that matter.

Well, you did say "rational" person, so.....

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@georgeob1,

You're right, it wasn't specifically on point though the section on lies - uses and consequences - very definitely is. But it's a very smart piece and I encourage reading smart stuff.

No, disagreement is not a threat. Nor is diversity for the same, if broader, reasons. But suppression of factual information is a threat and the suppression of countering viewpoints is - thus my posts here on Trump's moves to suppress departmental communications from scientists, thus my posts here on attempts to bully the press. Nothing I do here moves towards suppression of anyone's ideas or communication.

In any case, I'll continue as I am and you can continue as you are.

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I have touched on this topic before, but I think it's relevant to the discussion here, too:

Quote:

Herbert Marcuse was a German-American philosopher, sociologist, and political theorist, associated with the Frankfurt School of Critical Theory.... Celebrated as the "Father of the New Left",... his Marxist scholarship inspired many radical intellectuals and political activists in the 1960s and 1970s, both in the United States and internationally.

Many radical scholars and activists were influenced by Marcuse, such as Norman O. Brown,[14] Angela Davis,[15] Kathy Acker, Abbie Hoffman, Rudi Dutschke, and Robert M. Young. (See the List of Scholars and Activists link, below.)...Marcuse's 1965 essay "Repressive Tolerance", in which he claimed capitalist democracies can have totalitarian aspects, has been criticized by conservatives....

He advocates a form of tolerance that is intolerant of right wing political movements: Liberating tolerance, then, would mean intolerance against movements from the Right and toleration of movements from the Left.

In his writings, he openly denies that "free speech" is a worthwhile value. Only those with "correct" values should be afforded the freedom of speech.

For those who don't know, the "Frankfort School" was basically a commie think tank originated in the 1920's:

Quote:

The term "Frankfurt School" arose informally to describe the thinkers affiliated or merely associated with the Frankfurt Institute for Social Research; [which]...was founded in 1923 by Carl Grünberg, a Marxist legal and political professor at the University of Vienna, as an adjunct of the University of Frankfurt; it was the first Marxist-oriented research center affiliated with a major German university.

The whole concept of "political correctness" was developed around this time;

Quote:

In the early-to-mid 20th century, the phrase "politically correct" was associated with the dogmatic application of Stalinist doctrine, debated between Communist Party members and American Socialists. This usage referred to the Communist party line, which provided "correct" positions on many political matters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Marcuse

Tactical and strategical handbooks stemming from the Lenin regime incorporated recommended methods (still being used today) for sympathizers and infiltrators in non-communist countries which were to be employed to achieve a "cultural revolution" in prepartion for an ultimate communist take-over.

Opponents were to be personally attacked, denounced, and "dismissed" as "anti-semitic" racist, barbaric, etc., according to these manifestos.

What happened in Berkeley last night is just a continuation of commie thought and doctrine which is typical of the last 100 years. The commie idea of "tolerance" and "free speech" aint exactly what you're gunna find in the writings of John Locke or the U.S. constituiton, and political correctness aint nuthin new.

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http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-russia-sanctions-nuclear-reduction-deal/

Seems tRump is trying his damdest to repay Putin and Russia for the help he got in stealing the presidency. Not only that he is trying to get rid of allies who have been our friends for 80 years like England and Australia. Next I guess he will cede all the countries that border Russia to them in thanks for making him king of America.

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@blatham,

We agree that the suppression of factual information (in cases where it can actually be done) and the suppression of countering viewpoints are indeed potential threats to the community and us all.

I find those committed progressives who insist that others should embrace their "politically correct" values and beliefs about nearly everything, to be seriously intolerant and totalitarian. Their presumption that, merely because they believe abortion and contraception services should be available to everyone, means they should, in governance, be able to thwart the moral beliefs of religious organizations that have spent over a century in selfless dedication to the poor (in this case the Little Sisters of the Poor) Is something I find to be quite to the essence of intolerant totalitanism. In what way could this or like things be a real threat to a progressive view of more available medical care? Evidently the unstated underlying postulate must be that, once they( progressives) have found a proper progressive solution to a social problem, all others must of necessity retreat, and disappear. ( And of course the coralary precept that whatever its failings the progressive solution must be judged only in terms on the good intentions behind it - not actual outcomes. Is this not the very essence of totalitarianism? Recalling Arendt's words, perhaps she would agree.

I fear that you don't think this stuff through; are utterly unwilling to see the mote in your own eye; and apply words like "totalitarian" to things or forces you don't like without ever giving a thought to how well they also might apply to things of which you approve.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

I find those committed progressives who insist that others should embrace their "politically correct" values and beliefs about nearly everything, to be seriously intolerant and totalitarian.

Yeah, I know. Might as well end this here.

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@blatham,

It appears to be very hard for you to really think about the contradictions that infest your approach here. Too bad.

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@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Next I guess he will cede all the countries that border Russia to them in thanks for making him king of America.

I was wondering if he was going to return Alaska to the Russians.

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Did someone mention "abortion?"

I personally have no problem with abortions.

But I would NEVER call myself "pro-choice."

I am pro-death, that's all.

You can have your candyass, cheese-eatin euphemisms.

If I smoke some clerk in a 7-11 hold-up, I will admit that it was murder. I won't try to claim that it was merely a "choice" that I had a moral right to make.

Then, again, I suppose you DO have some kind of right to try to eliminate any obstacle to your own convenience, so...

When the ancient Greeks had a baby that was deformed, that they would find hard to support, or that they just didn't want, they would take it by the heals and bash it's head against some rocks. No one thought twice about it. No one was "condemned." That's just life.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

That's the practice of tyrants, not a democracy. He's resembling Putin in his actions. How long is congress and the Supreme Court going to allow this tyrant to run this country?

Mr. Trump will be our president for 8 years. After that, the Republicans will continue to hold the White House for at least another 12 years.

Even when the Democrats eventually regain power again, it will only be by purging their Leftists and instead nominating a "Trump-lite" to run for them.

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@layman,

layman wrote:

Word from Berkeley is that even after the speech was cancelled and it's would-be attendees beaten, the mob hung around burning ****, breaking windows, and throwing molotov cocktails at cops for hours. Then they headed off campus to trash, among other business, at least 4 banks.

No arrests were made. SF is a "sanctuary city." Trump's gunna have to send in the National Guard.

I'd like to see these Leftist thugs try to assault someone who's carrying a concealed handgun.

Can you imagine the histrionics after a bunch of these freaks get themselves gunned down? I'd really enjoy making fun of that.

1 Reply

@blatham,

blatham wrote:

Re the Yemen **** show

It really upsets you when we score a big victory against the scumbags, doesn't it?

The only downside to the raid was that we lost a good soldier. The fact that we killed a bunch of scumbags is all good.

We also retrieved the terrorists' smart phones and portable computers. That intelligence could lead to a new round of dronestrikes and even more dead scumbags.

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@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

I think it might take a decade to get out from underneath the stomping we got and some of it we caused ourselves (Reids nuclear option...) but I think, sooner or later, the dime is going to turn. This administration is heading for disaster and is going to take the world and our country with it.

Actually the Republicans are going to hold the White House for 20 straight years now.

And the only way the Democrats will regain power in the distant future is by giving in to Trumpism and nominating a "Trump-lite" to run for them.

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@georgeob1,

Maybe he just got bored with your comments. Of course, we all know that Blatham couldn't possibly be right about anything! He's just one of those evil cheese-eaters.

Tolerance is a conservative value? Wow! That's a laugh. History is replete with examples to the contrary. For example, most of the white conservatives I knew in the 1950s and the 1960s as I was growing up were racially intolerant. (Meanwhile, the left is just as unwilling to engage in self-examination. They have their own faults.)

Tolerance is a human trait, not an ideological one. Historically, intolerance has been far more prevalent. Not to mention the violence that has so often accompanied it.

Patting oneself on the back while claiming that one's political ideology (such as conservatism) has never been in the wrong, morally or otherwise, is merely one of the many kinds of self-deception. Despite your claims to being superior over anyone and everyone who isn't a political conservative, conservatives have had their own moments (or long periods lasting for generations) of intolerance. Just like everyone else.

No wonder at the age of 66 I'm about to give up on politics. Completely. I used to think the future would be better than the present. Now I'm not at all convinced.

The way some people engage in politics reminds me of rabid sports fans (as opposed to those who are more casual in their interest). Rah, rah, rah! Jab 'em in the eye! Why not? They're totally evil! I'm not a sports fan in either the athletic sense or in the political/ideological sense. I've had enough. In fact, I wish I had never become interested in politics. If I had known what both sides were going to do in the future, I never would have bothered. But at least I can't be brainwashed by anyone today.

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@oralloy,

Even CNN had to cover the story, even if they did try to marginalize it, but not a single cheese-eater here that I've seen has even acknowledged that it occurred, eh?

Quote:

Berkeley protests of Yiannopoulos caused $100,000 in damage

More than 1,500 protesters had gathered at Sproul Plaza, chanting and holding signs that read: "No safe space for racists" and "This is war."

The violent protesters tore down metal barriers, set fires near the campus bookstore and damaged the construction site of a new dorm. One woman wearing a red Trump hat was pepper sprayed in the face while being interviewed by CNN affiliate KGO. She was able to respond that she was OK after the attack.

"While Yiannopoulos' views, tactics and rhetoric are profoundly contrary to our own, we are bound by the Constitution, the law, our values and the campus's Principles of Community to enable free expression across the full spectrum of opinion and perspective," UC Berkeley said in a statement.

Black-clad protesters wearing masks threw commercial-grade fireworks and rocks at police. Some even hurled Molotov cocktails that ignited fires. They also smashed windows of the student union center on the Berkeley campus where the Yiannopoulos event was to be held. At least six people were injured. Some were attacked by the agitators. One student told CNN that he didn't agree with what happened.

As police dispersed the crowd from campus, a remaining group of protesters moved into downtown Berkeley and smashed windows at several local banks.

No arrests were made throughout the night.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley/

The cops just stood and watched. As students were being beaten, people in the mob were just screaming "Kick his ass!" while taking cell phone videos of the brutal beatings with poles. No one was seen trying to restrain the attackers or otherwise come to the aid of the victims. Many were interviewed and were gleefully celebrating their "victory."

The whole thing went down like a mob beating of a black man in Alabama around 1930. After it's over, all the crackers would high-five each other and eventually the police would tell them they best head on home now because it was getting late.

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@wmwcjr,

I agree with you. I hate politics butI'm not ready to have my life controlled by uber conservatives or uber liberals. If you don't believe in God or organized religion, you don't have to attend services. If you are a believer, you get to pick your house of worship. Don't approve of abortion. don't get one, think birth control is evil.....don't use it, but stay out of others reproductive health.

Tolerant simply means you are able to consider others opinions or life styles. It doesn't mean you have change your mind (you might - but so what) nor does it mean you need to live in a way that makes you uncomfortable....but if it suits your friend, neighbor, pastor, sister, brother et al, leave them alone. And you don't have to get a neck tattoo if you don't want one. So, bottom line,I agree with you. Too many people are arranging their lives as if it's a super bowl game. All these people clamoring to named the most virtuous, the most patriotic, the ones who know the perfect way other people should live their lives are frittering away whatever time they have left on this earth. It's just another version of "whoever dies with the most toys, wins".

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