192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Thu 3 Oct, 2019 03:06 pm
@Sturgis,
I don't know, watch him rant on a video with the sound off, he is really upset, it is not playacting. It's real and he is becoming unhinged.
BillW
 
  1  
Thu 3 Oct, 2019 03:09 pm
@revelette1,
watch his face color - he turns beat red and even more puffy
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Thu 3 Oct, 2019 03:12 pm
Today when I read about Trump asking (kind of in the manner he did Russia and Hillary's emails)to look into Biden, I just thought, gosh, one more thing. But then I read an article and I can see the unvoiced quid pro quo (right phrase?) China could infer from Trump in regards to the trade war. China might think, hey, if we just go along with Trump and act like we are looking into the Biden thing, Trump might ease up on the tariffs.

Quote:
Most of the most provocative moves in the trade war have been made by Trump, who started this whole thing and has been more anxious to ramp things up. China could very logically now believe that further escalations might be tied to whether it takes the actions Trump wants. Any future decisions could be colored accordingly.

And indeed, shortly before delivering the above quotes, Trump was explicitly talking about his leverage over China.

“I have a lot of options on China, but if they don’t do what we want, we have tremendous power,” Trump said. Thirty seconds later, he was talking about the investigations. If you’re China, you have to wonder if those things might be related in Trump’s mind.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/10/03/trumps-request-that-china-investigate-bidens-is-his-most-brazen-yet-it-might-also-be-most-problematic/
BillW
 
  2  
Thu 3 Oct, 2019 04:05 pm
@revelette1,
rev, it just dawn on me - Biden needs to go out there and say "World, don't do tRumps bidding and you get me - no quid pro quo, I pay you nothing and you pay me nothing plus you get me. No tariffs to boot, no lies, no wishy washy negotiations!"
revelette1
 
  2  
Thu 3 Oct, 2019 04:14 pm
@BillW,
I don't they'll find anything on Biden anyway. But it still would be better if China hedged their bets on a Biden win and refuse to talk to him at all much less start some kind of investigation; unless Trump is willing to undo his tariffs first. Don't we have investigative agencies the President could call on if there was truly circumstances warranting it? Seems someone asked that question and got chewed out for it.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Thu 3 Oct, 2019 04:19 pm
This was September 27. I was travelling and missed it.
Quote:
“I’m the real whistleblower,” declared Giuliani, who claimed to possess more damaging information and insisted that he, too, should be entitled to whistleblower protections. “If I get killed now,” he warned, “You won’t get the rest of the story.”

Quote:
“It is impossible that the whistle-blower is a hero and I’m not. And I will be the hero! These morons—when this is over, I will be the hero,” Giuliani told me.
“I’m not acting as a lawyer. I’m acting as someone who has devoted most of his life to straightening out government,” he continued, sounding out of breath. “Anything I did should be praised.”

Much more here
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Thu 3 Oct, 2019 04:27 pm
Quote:
WASHINGTON — President Trump ordered the removal of the ambassador to Ukraine after months of complaints from allies outside the administration, including his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, that she was undermining him abroad and obstructing efforts to persuade Kyiv to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, according to people familiar with the matter.

The recall of Marie Yovanovitch in the spring has become a key point of interest in the House impeachment inquiry. A whistleblower complaint by a CIA officer alleges the president solicited foreign interference in the 2020 elections by pressing Ukraine’s president in a July 25 call to pursue investigations, including into the activities of Mr. Biden, a Democrat who is running for president.

The complaint cites Ms. Yovanovitch’s ouster as one of a series of events that paved the way for what the whistleblower alleges was an abuse of power by the president. Mr. Trump has described the call with his Ukrainian counterpart as “perfect” and the House inquiry as a “hoax.”

State Department officials were told this spring that Ms. Yovanovitch’s removal was a priority for the president, a person familiar with the matter said. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo supported the move, an administration official said. Ms. Yovanovitch was told by State Department officials that they couldn’t shield her from attacks by the president and his allies, according to people close to her.

In an interview, Mr. Giuliani told The Wall Street Journal that in the lead-up to Ms. Yovanovitch’s removal, he reminded the president of complaints percolating among Trump supporters that she had displayed an anti-Trump bias in private conversations. In Mr. Giuliani’s view, she also had been an obstacle to efforts to push Ukraine to investigate Mr. Biden and his son, Hunter.

As vice president, Mr. Biden spearheaded an international anticorruption reform push in Ukraine, which included calling for the dismissal of a prosecutor the U.S. and its allies saw as soft on corruption. He had once investigated the Ukrainian gas company where Hunter Biden served on the board at a salary of $50,000 a month, according to one official with ties to the company. Mr. Trump has accused the Bidens of corruption.

In May, Ukraine’s then-prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko, said he had no evidence of wrongdoing by the Bidens.

When Ms. Yovanovitch left her post in May, the State Department said she was concluding her assignment “as planned,” and that her departure date aligned with the start of a new administration in Ukraine. She was recalled at least three months before the end of the customary three-year diplomatic tenure.

Mr. Giuliani told the Journal that when he mentioned the ambassador to the president this spring, Mr. Trump “remembered he had a problem with her earlier and thought she had been dismissed.” Mr. Giuliani said he subsequently received a call from a White House official—whom he declined to identify—asking him to list his concerns about the ambassador again.

President Trump speaking at the Oval Office on Wednesday. PHOTO: CHRIS KLEPONIS/BLOOMBERG NEWS Mr. Giuliani said he gave Mr. Pompeo a nine-page document dated March 28 that included a detailed timeline of the Bidens’ dealings in Ukraine and allegations of impropriety against Ms. Yovanovitch, including that she was “very close” to Mr. Biden.

Andrew Bates, a Biden campaign spokesman, said Mr. Biden has professional respect for Ms. Yovanovitch but that the two aren’t close. “She became our ambassador during the final 6 months of the administration,” he said. “This is standard Rudy Giuliani: noun, verb, lie about Joe Biden.”

“He called me back and he said they were going to investigate,” Mr. Giuliani said of the secretary of state, saying Mr. Pompeo asked for additional documents to back up the allegations. “The reason I gave the information to the secretary was I believed that he should know that the president’s orders to fire her were being blocked by the State Department.”

Neither the State Department nor the White House responded to requests for comment.

When asked about Ms. Yovanovitch’s removal Thursday, Mr. Trump told reporters: “I don’t know if I recalled her or somebody recalled her but I heard very, very bad things about her for a long period of time. Not good.”
Ms. Yovanovitch couldn’t be reached for comment. People close to her disputed that she did anything wrong and defended her work.

“She was doing everything by the book,” said a senior Ukraine government official who interacted with her. “Everything was blessed by State Department.”

Ms. Yovanovitch remains an employee of the State Department and is a senior State Department fellow at Georgetown University.
A career diplomat, she first served as the second-ranking diplomat in Kyiv in 2001 under President George W. Bush and returned as ambassador under President Obama in 2016.

Prior to Ms. Yovanovitch’s recall from Kyiv, her relations with some senior Ukrainian officials were fraught. Ms. Yovanovitch openly criticized the office of Mr. Lutsenko, then the prosecutor general, for its poor anticorruption record. “Lutsenko hated her because she pushed for reforms, especially in the judiciary sector,” said a former Western diplomat in Ukraine.

Presidents have the authority to nominate and remove ambassadors. But senior officials at the White House and State Department say they had been unaware of the president’s displeasure with Ms. Yovanovitch and surprised by her removal.

Mr. Giuliani’s role in pressing for the ambassador’s ouster is unusual given that he holds no formal government role. The president’s critics contend that, in his capacity representing the president’s personal interests as his attorney, he has exercised undue influence over administration policy and personnel.

Mr. Giuliani isn’t the only figure outside the administration to have expressed concerns about the ambassador. As early as the spring of 2018, Pete Sessions, at the time a GOP congressman from Texas, sent a letter to Mr. Pompeo asking for her removal, saying he had been told Ms. Yovanovitch was displaying a bias against the president in private conversations.

Mr. Sessions told the Journal he didn’t follow up on the matter and didn’t hear until months later about Mr. Trump’s interest in replacing her. He declined to say where his information about the ambassador came from but said his letter was in line with a broader concern among members of Congress that the administration wasn’t moving swiftly enough to put new ambassadors in place.

In a March 2019 interview with a columnist at The Hill, Mr. Lutsenko complained that the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv was obstructing corruption investigations, including by providing a “do not prosecute” list and restricting Ukrainian access to the U.S. Mr. Lutsenko’s claim is mentioned in the whistleblower complaint.

The U.S. State Department at the time called the untouchables list claim an “outright fabrication.” Mr. Lutsenko later retracted the allegation about the list and said had no evidence of Biden wrongdoing. He was dismissed in August.

In early 2019, Mr. Lutsenko met twice with Mr. Giuliani, who around the same time stepped up his quest to collect information he could use to persuade Ukraine to open an investigation into the Bidens. The men met in New York in January and in Warsaw in February.

Mr. Lutsenko couldn’t be reached for comment. Mr. Giuliani said he brought concerns about the ambassador to the president in the weeks following his meetings with Mr. Lutsenko. “It would have been a dereliction of my duty if I didn’t,” he said. He accused Ms. Yovanovitch of blocking his efforts to push Ukraine to investigate the Bidens: “I think she covered it up.”

The president’s supporters kept up criticism of Ms. Yovanovitch. In a March 22 interview on Fox News, Joe diGenova, a lawyer close to the president, accused Ms. Yovanovitch, without providing evidence, of having “bad-mouthed” Mr. Trump to Ukrainian officials and having told them “not to listen or worry about Trump policy because he’s going to be impeached.”

Mr. diGenova declined to comment. In the Fox interview, Mr. diGenova added: “The president has ordered her dismissal from her post.” The same month, Donald Trump Jr., the president’s son, referred to the ambassador in a Twitter message as a “joker.”

After Volodymyr Zelensky won the Ukrainian presidency on April 21, State Department officials told their Ukrainian counterparts that they favored continuity at the embassy in Kyiv, rather than inserting a new ambassador, according to people familiar with the matter.

Instead, Ms. Yovanovitch was recalled about two weeks after the election. The State Department hasn’t named a successor.

In the July 25 call, Mr. Trump described Ms. Yovanovitch to Mr. Zelensky as “bad news.” Mr. Zelensky responded: ”It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%.”

In early May, a packet of materials was received by Mr. Pompeo’s office at the State Department, according to an account given Wednesday to House and Senate committee members by the State Department inspector general and later described by Democratic lawmakers. The inspector general told Congress he had information relevant to the impeachment investigation. The inspector general didn’t respond to requests for comment.

It contained several folders marked “Trump Hotel” containing notes and newspaper clippings Democratic lawmakers said were designed to smear Ms. Yovanovitch, packaged in an envelope marked “White House,” according to documents viewed by the Journal.

“It is a package of propaganda and disinformation and conspiracy theories,” said Rep. Jamie Raskin (D., Md.).

The nine-page document Mr. Giuliani said he gave to Mr. Pompeo dated March 28 was part of that packet, according to a person who saw the packet.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-ordered-ukraine-ambassador-removed-after-complaints-from-giuliani-others/ar-AAIfAF6?ocid=spartandhp
blatham
 
  1  
Thu 3 Oct, 2019 04:37 pm
@revelette1,
Also up at the WSJ
Quote:
WASHINGTON—President Trump ordered the removal of the ambassador to Ukraine after months of complaints from allies outside the administration, including his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, that she was undermining him abroad and obstructing efforts to persuade Kyiv to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, according to people familiar with the matter...
LINK
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Thu 3 Oct, 2019 07:53 pm
@revelette1,
Thanks rev, I've been wanting to see the details behind the actions outlined in your excerpt. Proves tRump and his cohorts are working for their own personal benefit only, damn the U.S. interest.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Fri 4 Oct, 2019 04:00 am
@BillW,
The President escalates his disputes with each and every one and also relies on conflict, polarisation and agitation in domestic and foreign politics.

The consequences cannot yet be foreseen.
Builder
 
  -3  
Fri 4 Oct, 2019 04:04 am
You've got a nice little cluster-**** going on here, kids.

Getting all wet around the fork area, dreaming about a never-trump time in your lives?

I don't see much call for change, though. I keep expressing surprise that an entrepreneur slash reality TV guy can even qualify for this role of POTUS and (more importantly, for mine) commander in chief of the most nasty kick-arse bunch of killing hardware in existence on my planet.

Did you not surmise that he might win the cup?

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 4 Oct, 2019 04:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
That is so.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Fri 4 Oct, 2019 04:43 am
Since the Ukraine story broke, Trump's been repeating that the phone call was "perfect". I suspected that this may have had to do with the way he was coached, possibly by Giuliani. "Okay Mr. President, you want to be careful not to spell things out too clearly in case a record of this call should surface." Reading through some of the testimony from yesterday there are signs that efforts were made to hide any suggestion of "quid pro quo". Looks to me like Donny was thrilled with his performance — he got through the entire call, laying out the mutual understanding without actually spilling the beans. It was just perfect!
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 4 Oct, 2019 04:52 am
@hightor,
That's a hell of a smart take, hightor. It really does make sense of that odd choice of words.

Edit: to add to this, let's note that the ubiquitous defense/talking point coming from Republicans like Meadows and Graham and others and from right wing media after Volker's testimony is that there was "no quid pro quo".
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  5  
Fri 4 Oct, 2019 05:04 am
Quote:
When he isn’t raving about how the deep state is conspiring against him, Donald Trump loves to boast about the economy, claiming to have achieved unprecedented things. As it happens, none of his claims are true. While both G.D.P. and employment have registered solid growth, the Trump economy simply seems to have continued a long expansion that began under Barack Obama. In fact, someone who looked only at the past 10 years of data would never guess that an election had taken place.

But now it’s starting to look as if Trump really will achieve something unique: He may well be the first president of modern times to preside over a slump that can be directly attributed to his own policies, rather than bad luck...
Krugman
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Fri 4 Oct, 2019 05:35 am
Quote:
Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of viral disinformation.

In the conspiracy-obsessed echo chambers of conservative talk radio and far-right websites, Sen. Mitt Romney has some explaining to do — answering for ties to the Ukrainian gas company that put Joe Biden’s son on its board, and accounting for conversations with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi about Republican support for impeaching President Trump.

In reality, neither claim is true. No meaningful ties exist between the Utah Republican and Burisma, and he had no such conversation with Pelosi.

The flood of baseless attacks and misleading innuendo buffeting Romney, which began after he became a rare Republican to express concern about Trump’s interactions with the Ukrainian president, serves as a preview of the viral attacks likely to be unleashed on GOP lawmakers if they buck their president during an impeachment showdown that Trump has denounced as a “coup.”...
WP

This is exactly why much of the modern right wing media ecosystem exists. Fox and talk radio being the most obvious examples.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  4  
Fri 4 Oct, 2019 05:51 am
Quote:
An Internal Revenue Service ­official has filed a whistleblower complaint reporting that he was told that at least one Treasury Department political appointee attempted to improperly interfere with the annual audit of the president’s or vice president’s tax returns, according to multiple people familiar with the document.

Trump administration officials dismissed the whistleblower’s complaint as flimsy because it is based on conversations with other government officials...
WP

This echoes the talking point adopted by Republicans in response to another whistle-blower's revelations - "It's all second-hand or third-hand accounts".

To put that "defense" of Trump in perspective, imagine if the CIA or FBI or any police force received a tip that a a conversation was overheard at a mosque wherein some individual said he'd been informed that a terrorist operation was functioning locally. Therefore, it's a nothing-burger? No investigation merited? And what if four different tips on the same matter are received? What if phone calls and messages suggest the same?
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  5  
Fri 4 Oct, 2019 06:09 am
It is almost as though the republicans are going to hang their hat on the president's and his minions ability to commit a crime on the sly, without coming out and saying point blank, "you do this favor for me and my re-election chances and I will release the aid money and set a meeting at the WH like you want." Instead they left the message clear and unmistakable that if Ukraine wanted those things, then they would be "on board."

Just read the text message between the envoys, it is clear Taylor was getting too technical in writing and Soundland cut him off and said there was no quid pro quo and that they should not writing this stuff and should call instead.

I mean, for anyone following this, you would have be a dunce not get it. The text messages is the most damaging of everything else that has come before it. In the Mueller investigation, the catch phrase the soulless republicans was "no collusion" well they have figured, we got away with that so need to worry about that phrase anymore. Now the goal post has moved to "no quid pro quo." Well there is quid pro quo.

Unfortunetly for the truth and justice regardless of how fit. or more the case of not fit, Biden is getting hurt by this everybit as much as Trump is even though he is not thought to have done anything to merit it. Moreover, Ukranine is now officially investigating Biden, not just curruption, so Trump has gotten his way on that one as well.


However, I think in the end, this one the republicans are finally losing the message war, it aint working this time around. Finally.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Fri 4 Oct, 2019 06:14 am
@revelette1,
It might be for the best, I think other Democratic candidates would be better than Biden. He's too old and too touchy feely.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 4 Oct, 2019 06:23 am
@revelette1,
I think so, rev. But what I find so sobering is this. In our lifetimes, I don't think we've ever seen anything like the present moment where pretty much all the mainstream media has been reporting on the Trump phenomenon with such a level of critical coverage and commentary. Right wing types, of course, see this as a broad conspiracy to damage Trump. It isn't that at all, as we understand, but they believe it to be so... because of the establishment of a rightwing media universe which has now become large enough and corrupt enough to convince some 30 or 40% of Americans that it is so.
 

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