192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 16 Aug, 2019 11:12 pm
@MontereyJack,
Why is Trump trying to import Greenlandic socialism?
Quote:
[...]
So why is Trump trying to bring actual socialists into the United States?

That’s the inescapable conclusion from Trump’s reported interest in buying Greenland. It’s an idea we’re all required to have a good laugh about, but historically it hasn’t been such a punchline. The United States actually sought to purchase Greenland back in 1946 for the cool price of $100 million (about $1.3 billion in today’s dollars). It was so seriously considered that Gallup even polled what people thought of the idea, finding a mixed bag. Later, during the Cold War, Greenland was considered such a strategic location that the United States established an air base there. Fast-forward to now, and Trump isn’t the only one interested in acquiring the world’s largest island; so is China.

But what would be done with Greenland, politically speaking? Completing the purchase would require clearing high (and apparently insurmountable, judging by the response) hurdles. It is a self-governing country in the kingdom of Denmark, and we’d have to pay the Danes and get the Greenlanders themselves to sign off.

We don’t know much about what Trump would do with Greenland, but given its veto power, it would probably want some deal-sweeteners. Would the proud Greenlanders settle for status as a mere U.S. territory with no votes in Congress or for president? That seems unlikely. So let’s assume for the moment that it would need to be the 51st state. (How can you make the world’s largest island anything but, after all?)

Despite this being Trump’s idea, that’s something Democrats could probably get behind. That’s because the island is full of socialists who would probably elect left-leaning U.S. senators.

Greenland has a political system with multiple parties, which all fight over 31 seats in the parliament. If no party has a majority, a coalition government must be formed. The top two parties are the Siumut and the Inuit Ataqatigiit, which account for a majority of the 31 seats and until recently formed a coalition. Both parties advocate Greenland’s sovereignty — a key issue in the country’s politics — and both also advocate varying degrees of socialism. The Siumut (which means “forward”) is the party of Greenland’s premier and is the more moderate of the two, while the IA is the more left-leaning socialist party. Even the third-ranking party, the centrist Demokraatit (or Democrats), is left-leaning by U.S. political standards.
[...]
One potential stumbling block in making Greenland the 51st state is its size. Despite being the world’s largest island and having a landmass bigger than Mexico, its population is just 56,000. That makes it roughly one-tenth the size of the current smallest state in terms of population, Wyoming.

That said, while Democrats have complained about the relative voice that rural states like Wyoming have in the Senate, it seems unlikely they’d complain about bringing Greenland into the fold. Perhaps this is a deal everyone can get on board with — provided the price is right, of course.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 12:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Chief Minister writes to Presidents of European Council & Commission over application of EU sanctions against Syria
Quote:
he Chief Minister has written to the Presidents of the European Council and Commission, informing them of Gibraltar's success in applying EU sanctions against Syria.

As well as Donald Tusk and Jean-Claude Juncker, Fabian Picardo also wrote to the EU High Representative for Foreign Affairs, Federica Mogherini, and Commission President-elect, Ursula vonder Leyen.

He set out that Gibraltar's actions have deprived the Assad regime of around $140 million dollars' worth of crude oil, by securing published written assurances from the Iranian Government that the supertanker's cargo will not be made available to any EU-sanctioned entity or person.

Mr Picardo also provided the recipients with a copy of the relevant legal notice, which includes these written assurances.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 12:57 am
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
The struggle in Hong Kong isn't even remotely like those playing out in Europe.

Your right, they have only been protesting in Hong Kong for a few weeks, they have been protesting in France for almost 9 months now. The reasons might be different, but the struggle is just the same, pretesting against what they see as injustice and wanting change. What's going on in Hong Kong is classical freedom vs communism. Have you seen the reports of protesters waving the US flag and singing our National Anthem?

Yes. I’m not sure why people try to act like this isn’t happening.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 01:24 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
the struggle is just the same, pretesting against what they see as injustice and wanting change. 

Are you saying that protestors generally want some sort of change? Man, that's so deep...

The guys protesting Putin also want change, as do the American demonstrators for gun control, and the neonazis in Charlottesville. I guess they all fight for the exact same thing: freedom from an oppressive regime.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 01:27 am
@Walter Hinteler,
If the US size this or any other Iranian tanker, it'll just be an act of piracy from a rogue state.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 01:32 am
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
The reasons might be different, but the struggle is just the same, pretesting against what they see as injustice and wanting change. What's going on in Hong Kong is classical freedom vs communism. Have you seen the reports of protesters waving the US flag and singing our National Anthem?
I'd thought that wanted to re-institute the "one country, two systems" policy, eroding the civil rights enjoyed by Hong Kong residents since the handover of sovereignty from the UK to China in 1997.

Well, might be, Trump can buy Hongkong as well.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 03:12 am
@Lash,
Quote:
Yes. I’m not sure why people try to act like this isn’t happening.

Lash, I'm certainly not denying that it is happening. I've made a few comments about it in other threads. What I object to is Baldimo's simplistic and biased assumption that the demonstrations in Hong Kong are in any way comparable to the populist movements in Europe. Just because people in different countries are dissatisfied with their governments and take to the streets doesn't mean that their protests are similar or even related.
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I'd thought that wanted to re-institute the "one country, two systems" policy, eroding the civil rights enjoyed by Hong Kong residents since the handover of sovereignty from the UK to China in 1997.

The populists demonstrations in Europe are manifestations of right-wing nationalistic currents which have existed in Europe for generations. Jean-Marie Le Pen's National Front, for instance, dates back to the early '70's. The EU exacerbated the alienation between economic and social classes in Europe and the influx of refugees in recent years brought the conflict to a head. The European populist movements aren't all identical either. The "Yellow Vest" protests in France are more anarchist than reactionary; some of the others are clearly racist, and some are more nationalist. Trying to establish some sort of political equivalence between the Hong Kong protests and say, Brexit, is unfocused, unproductive, and unnecessary.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 03:42 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
The populists demonstrations in Europe are manifestations of right-wing nationalistic currents which have existed in Europe for generations. Jean-Marie Le Pen's National Front, for instance, dates back to the early '70's. The EU exacerbated the alienation between economic and social classes in Europe and the influx of refugees in recent years brought the conflict to a head. The European populist movements aren't all identical either. The "Yellow Vest" protests in France are more anarchist than reactionary; some of the others are clearly racist, and some are more nationalist. Trying to establish some sort of political equivalence between the Hong Kong protests and say, Brexit, is unfocused, unproductive, and unnecessary.
Due to the long European unfortunate history, many of the right-wing "demonstrators" in Europe are not only extreme right-wing but openly anti-semitic as well. (In Germany, France, UK, Hungary ....)
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 04:22 am
@hightor,
It is indeed simplistic and superficial to assume that the guys in Honk Kong and the French yellow jackets all want the exact same thing, even though some protesters in Hong Kong sport some yellow color in some vague reference to the yellow jackets. Even among the gillets jaunes, there were many differences of opinion: extreme left, extreme right, and pretty much everything in between...
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 05:15 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
the struggle is just the same, pretesting against what they see as injustice and wanting change. 

Are you saying that protestors generally want some sort of change? Man, that's so deep...

The guys protesting Putin also want change, as do the American demonstrators for gun control, and the neonazis in Charlottesville. I guess they all fight for the exact same thing: freedom from an oppressive regime.


LOL
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 05:30 am
@hightor,
There are similarities between many of the global upheavals against distant, or unresponsive, increasingly authoritarian control.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/07/29/world/politics-diplomacy-world/like-frances-enduring-yellow-vest-movement-hong-kong-protests-unlikely-end-anytime-soon/#.XVfjkyUpCaM

Compare and contrast of the public protests in Hong Kong and France...and Brecit and Puerto Rico and...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 05:42 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Compare and contrast of the public protests in Hong Kong and France...and Brecit and Puerto Rico and...
What's e.g. about the F**k Brexit rallies by the Remainers, the Scottish independence and Remain supporters rallies, the anti-far right demonstrations/Friday for Future demonstrations in Germany, the ... ?
(I do not believe that the Gilets Jaunes are – at their core and in their origins – an anti-Semitic movement. But unfortunately, without leaders and consisting of numerous groups with numerous, sometimes totally different aims - the anti-semitics among them get the loudest voices and attraction.)
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 05:47 am
Another deeper comparison of French protests and Hong Kong.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2019-07-25/hong-kong-protests-yellow-vests-show-long-road-ahead
Kenneth Yeung, a doctoral student from Hong Kong with a focus on social movements at the Université Paris Diderot, straddles both worlds: While interviewing Yellow Vest protesters for his academic research, he’s also part of a group of Hong Kongers living in France that organised some 10 rallies against the extradition bill back home.

“It’s about the pent-up anger that’s accumulated in the five years since Occupy,” he said, referring to the Occupy Central and Umbrella Movement protests which were also related to China’s greater influence on the city. “Today, even those who have never participated in any movements are thinking they must do their part.”

relates to France’s Yellow Vests Show Hong Kong Protests Won’t End Anytime Soon
Riot police clash with demonstrators inside New Town Plaza shopping mall during a protest in the Shatin district of Hong Kong on July 14.Photographer: Justin Chin/Bloomberg

One common thread is the lack of a unified leadership. Yeung notes that the co-existence of several leaders during Hong Kong’s protests five years ago led to infighting. Tung, the accountant, also referenced 2014, saying the fact the leaders were subsequently thrown in jail shows the benefit of the absence of a figurehead. Leaderless movements, organizing via encrypted messaging apps like Telegram, adapt and evolve.

“The lack of a leader is the reason the movement is still continuing,” he said of Hong Kong.

The nature and motivation of the two groups are still very different. In France, the Yellow Vests—named after the warning jackets that French motorists must keep in their cars in the event of breakdown—was an anti-globalization movement that saw in Macron a symbol of an out-of-touch elite that had let them down. Hong Kong’s protests are directed at an altogether different and more formidable foe: an encroaching China and the territory’s China-picked leader, Lam. And China has many more levers at its disposal than Macron.


In France, the protests fizzled after Macron heeded the protesters’ pleas, addressed the nation and initiated a platform to allow citizens to vent their frustrations. After initially ignoring the movement, on Dec. 10 Macron announced 10 billion euros ($11.1 billion) of tax cuts and increased welfare and pension spending. He organized a national debate that involved 10,500 town-hall meetings and 15,000 “grievance registers.” His response helped take the air out of the movement and sapped its once overwhelming popular support.

For opposition lawmaker Mo, that’s a crucial contrast with Hong Kong. France’s ability to respond democratically merely exposes Lam’s limited room to manoeuver, since her administration somehow needs to balance its citizens’ aspirations for greater democracy against relations with Beijing, and its instinct to exercise control.
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 05:49 am
@Walter Hinteler,
It seems you’d like a different discussion. I’m referencing the Brexit movement. You seem to want to talk about something else.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 05:54 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
In France, the Yellow Vests—named after the warning jackets that French motorists must keep in their cars in the event of breakdown—was an anti-globalization movement that saw in Macron a symbol of an out-of-touch elite that had let them down.
It might be that it became later - in parts - such a movement.
But definitely it started rallies and blockades over fuel prices.
Lash
 
  0  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 05:56 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes, that’s common knowledge, mentioned in the article. And as so many events—the unrest escalated to something else that had been brewing for years.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 06:01 am
@Lash,
No you're not, you're trying to conflate the protests in Hong Kong with the French yellow vest movement.

There was nothing in your article about Brexit, which is a right wing backlash by little Englanders who think they can get the British Empire to do a phoenix job.
Lash
 
  0  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 06:05 am
@izzythepush,
I mentioned the Brexit movement previously in a post you missed.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 06:08 am
@izzythepush,
"The Brexit movement" is indeed a crossparty thing by those, who want back the glory of the British Empire, with authoritarian control about e.g. Hong Kong [I'm sure you read about that, Lash], Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland ...
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Sat 17 Aug, 2019 06:11 am
@Lash,
In passing with no relevance to the other movements.

As far as Brexit goes, you've taken a Daily Mail editorial about what's wrong with the EU and are rewriting it as if it's fact.
 

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