monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

@hightor,

hightor wrote:

I don't think Izzy is condemning ordinary USAmericans who donated blood or supported the rescue workers. What disgusted me was the wholesale rush to war, the demonization of our own Muslim and Sikh citizens, GW Bush telling us to go shopping and visit DisneyWorld, and the total jingoist ignorance about why something like that could have even happened. The USA suffered a criminal terror attack and turned it into an excuse to occupy Afghanistan and later Iraq. The world doesn't love the USA. For good reasons.

An does the US care if the world love us or not as when they happen to need us they are fast to cry out for our help.

Three times in the last hundred years we save Europe rear end at some large cost to ourselves.

Let see we wish that our so call allies would made peace on somewhat fair terms after WW1 not sock it to the Germans resulting in the second WW2 that we needed to once more to save your asses.

Then after WW2 we needed to guard you from a massive invasion of the Soviets with tens of thousands tanks ready to roll to the sea.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

What's that have to do with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, "American exceptionalism", our economic subjugation of Cuba, our support for repressive dictatorial regimes around the world, or our refusal to do anything about climate change as a leading emitter of CO2 and other toxic pollutants?

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

What's that have to do with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, "American exceptionalism", our economic subjugation of Cuba, our support for repressive dictatorial regimes around the world, or our refusal to do anything about climate change as a leading emitter of CO2 and other toxic pollutants?

Strange as it is our repeat our technology that is placing large number of electric cars on the roadway and having windmills going up all over the country side.

We also pioneer nuclear power plants for that matter.

Next Afghistan had been a trouble spot for western world for a hundred plus
years and we are hardly the first nation that had try to clean up the mess. But then no one should complain about the actions of the Brit or the former USSR only finding fault with the US.

Quote:

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier of the Queen!

Of course Iraq under Saddam Hussein was a standing threat to all it neighbors with or without weapons of mass destruction that Hussein went out of his way to convince the world that he had.

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

It is proper that YOUR untrue statements be denied.

You cannot point out any untrue statements in my posts.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

I remember that,

Me too. I saw it on a Canadian channel (CBC maybe) shortly after 9/11. It was billed as an examination of America's options for responding, and I tuned in looking for a discussion of military options.

This episode is one of the reasons why I refer to most of the world as third-world trash and think that it's OK to bomb them whenever we feel like it.

It's not the only reason though. The Amanda Knox case did much to harden this opinion.

That episode is also why, when leftists and Muslims whine piteously about collateral damage from our dronestrikes, I greet their whining with cold hard contempt.

izzythepush wrote:

there were a lot of British Muslims in the audience, not "leftists," whatever that's supposed to mean.

There were plenty of leftists on that show that joined in with the hatred. Muslims and leftists are partners in evil. I didn't refer to Muslims this time because I was using it as a cite in a discussion of leftists. Had I been discussing Muslims I probably would have referred to Muslims and not mentioned leftists.

izzythepush wrote:

Despite what your propaganda says, the rest of the World doesn't love America and doesn't see 9/11 as the global catastrophe you like to portray it as.

This is why collateral damage from our dronestikes is a good thing. We're giving these people exactly what they deserve.

izzythepush wrote:

There was no glee in the Question Time special but a lot of justified anger

They were all quite satisfied with the results of the attacks.

izzythepush wrote:

about America's appalling treatment of the Palestinians, its support for dictators and the occupying troops in the ME.

We did not treat the Palestinians appallingly. We actually tried to help them get an independent state based on 1967 borders. The Palestinians' reaction to 9/11 after we had just done so much to help them shows quite clearly just how evil Palestinians are.

Our support for dictators during the Cold War was necessary to prevent Communists from taking over the world.

We had no occupying troops in the Middle East. All of our troops were there with the approval of the legitimate governments.

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@hightor,

We haven't subjugated Cuba at all , much less economically. The Cubans have allowed themselves to be subjugated politically, socially and economically by a totalitarian authoritarian government which repeatedly asserts its proclaimed "right" to do so in the name of "the revolution". This revolution promised prosperity, equality and freedom for all Cubans, but delivered on none of these. Cuba is poor; ruled by a party elite that lives much better than ordinary citizens and none of them enjoy political freedom or much control of their own lives.

We don't allow trade with Cuba; US investment in or loans to enterprises, controlled by an overtly hostile Cuban government; or their access to our financial system. That's about it. None of this involves any element of control or subjugation of their own independent economic activities. Considering the long term hostility of the Cuban government and their long term record of allying with other openly hostile governments, that is a fairly mild response.

There are many more authoritarian governments around the world than Republics governed under democratic principles such as our own. We deal with them (or not) based on our own economic and political interests, and the level of threat or hostility they present toward us. If you have a better standard in mind, I would like to hear it.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

I've not funded terrorist attacks in America. America funded the IRA for the best part of thirty years.

America didn't fund the IRA. Individual Irish Americans did.

izzythepush wrote:

You're very good at dishing it out, Vietnam, bombing of Tripoli etc. etc. but not good at taking it.

Vietnam was an attempt to save South Vietnam from being destroyed by Communist aggression.

Tripoli was justified self defense.

Why should we be good at being victims of massacres? We should live safely in a world where our military slaughters any third-world trash that is suspected of trying to harm us.

izzythepush wrote:

American neo imperialism is wreaking damage throughout the Globe on a daily basis.

Good. They deserve all of the damage that we inflict on them.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

Quote:

Barr is proving to be Trump's faithful lackey in launching investigations designed to discredit and possibly even prosecute his accusers. When Trump said Hillary Clinton should be locked up, he meant it; the Mueller report documents Trump's repeated demands that the Justice Department investigate his 2016 opponent.

Good. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Let's give these leftists a healthy dose of their own witch hunts.

Quote:

After House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) accused Trump of throwing a "temper tantrum" in a meeting with top Democrats, the president threw another one right on cue, calling her "Crazy Nancy," saying "she's a mess" and posting a doctored video to give the impression that she had trouble speaking. This, too, is an abuse with a precedent: During the 2016 campaign, Trump repeatedly cast aspersions on Clinton's health.

The precedent for such mischaracterizations is the way Democrats always mischaracterize Republican leaders.

Again, what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

revelette1 wrote:

The state of our union is God awful.

The only real problem is all the Democratic witch hunts and dirty tricks.

Outlawing the Democratic Party will dramatically improve the climate in America.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

I don't remember any Americans giving a **** about British civilians murdered by the IRA, yet you expect us to join in with your collective lamentations.

I was always appalled by all of the atrocities on both sides.

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@hightor,

hightor wrote:

What disgusted me was the wholesale rush to war,

See? Leftists are evil and always side with the terrorists.

hightor wrote:

the demonization of our own Muslim and Sikh citizens,

No such demonization.

hightor wrote:

GW Bush telling us to go shopping and visit DisneyWorld,

So instead of going on with our lives (and instead of going to war) we should have what? Meekly submitted ourselves to be massacred?

hightor wrote:

and the total jingoist ignorance about why something like that could have even happened.

It happened because much of the rest of the world is evil, and we were not bombing the world into submission like we should have been doing.

hightor wrote:

The USA suffered a criminal terror attack and turned it into an excuse to occupy Afghanistan

Gosh. Who would have thought that we'd respond by moving against the very people who attacked us?

hightor wrote:

and later Iraq.

One of the best reasons for destroying Saddam was all of the distress that this caused to the very same leftists and Muslims who were so happy about the 9/11 attacks.

Our only mistake was sticking around to do nation building. We should have just killed Saddam as soon as we captured him and went home leaving a broken wasteland behind.

Obama did it right in Libya. "Create a desert and call it peace."

hightor wrote:

The world doesn't love the USA. For good reasons.

Not for good reasons. Only because they are evil.

Periodically bombing them into submission is the answer. America should treat third-world trash the same way that Israel treats the Gaza Strip.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Now you're just trolling.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

(who had been under the yoke of British rule for 100's of years.)

He we go, justification for terrorism.

I never justified 9/11, yet you seem to think it's alright to murder British children because of the situation in Northern Ireland.

You call me anti American, you're the Anglophobic one.

For your information, Northern Ireland is part of the UK because the majority want it.

I don't know anyone in England who wants Northern Ireland to be part of the UK. The Tories do, but that's about it.

As for oppressive yokes, they've got their own government in Stormont, but they're not talking to each other.

At least you don't let your ignorance get in the way of justifying terrorism.

If it's only numbers you're interested in then 461,000 Iraqis were killed in America's illegal war.

I think those lives are every bit as important as American lives.

1 Reply

@hightor,

Thank you, that's pretty much what I was trying to say, but I may have expressed myself rather badly.

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@oralloy,

Imagine if Tony Blair had let Al Qaida raise funds in the UK after 9/11.

Would you think it's alright because the UK isn't funding terrorism directly, or would you, quite rightly, say the UK is funding terrorism?

When you couple that with grinning American politicians shaking hands with the leaders of Noraid it's true to say that America funded terrorism in the UK.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

Supposing all that is true. nevertheless, anytime you talk or respond to a topic with the US tied into it somehow, you have a criticism.

That's not true, I started a thread praising the FBI for its dealings with FIFA.

It's very hard not to be critical of the US when the planet is fast approaching tipping point and Trump has torn up the Paris Accord.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

revelette1 wrote:

Supposing all that is true. nevertheless, anytime you talk or respond to a topic with the US tied into it somehow, you have a criticism.

That's not true, I started a thread praising the FBI for its dealings with FIFA.

It's very hard not to be critical of the US when the planet is fast approaching tipping point and Trump has torn up the Paris Accord.

The Paris accord was/is a fake agreement designed to pacify the public into assuming that climate change is being solved, when it isn't.

Industrial consumerism is persisting because it is the most lucrative business model that anyone can come up with. The only way to make capitalism more lucrative would be to directly own people, but that is slavery and has been illegal since the 19th century.

If people want to solve climate unsustainability, they have to 'just say no' to the spoils of industrial consumerism. Stop driving. Turn off heating/cooling systems. And reduce material consumption to a minimum. Restore deforested/developed land to a state of maximum eco-integration. Protect and preserve trees everywhere and let the birds and squirrels do the work of processing CO2 that is sucked out of the atmosphere and made into sugars and fats by trees and plants.

If and when they start doing this, it will make revenue growth for business much more difficult, and they will be punished with job/pay cuts, etc. Unions and other supposed defenders of their interests will simply complain about them needing and deserving more money while lenders give them loans to keep them spending/consuming.

Those who do go on borrowing/spending/consuming will push up prices and costs for everyone else, and then they will ridicule and discriminate against environmentalists who resist consumerism because they will accuse such people of undermining capitalism and thus being undeserving of jobs and pay.

There is no climate agreement or any other policy that can force people to choose to conserve and thus reduce energy use and material consumption/waste. They are free to do so independently, in principle, but in practice they face social-cultural pressures that block them from doing the right thing, i.e. because doing so interferes with the economics that bring everyone more money, including those that support the Paris agreement, carbon taxation, etc.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Imagine if Tony Blair had let Al Qaida raise funds in the UK after 9/11.
Would you think it's alright because the UK isn't funding terrorism directly, or would you, quite rightly, say the UK is funding terrorism?
When you couple that with grinning American politicians shaking hands with the leaders of Noraid it's true to say that America funded terrorism in the UK.

I think the US government has always tried to block such funding, and what funding did occur, happened because it was concealed from the US government.

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Now you're just trolling.

No. I'm pointing out facts that the left wishes were not true.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

That's the point, which seems to have escaped you.

We never allowed people to raise funds for terrorism in America.

That's the difference.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

That's the point, which seems to have escaped you.

We never allowed people to raise funds for terrorism in America.

That's the difference.

That's not true. During our Revolutionary war the British government and its forces here used sympathetic colonists to conduct what would now be called a serious and prolonged program of terrorism, particularly in Virginia and the then Southern colonies.

The support for the Irish independence movement, and later the IRA involved the voluntary actions of Irish Americans who, themselves or their forefathers, suffered oppression, expropriation of property and, in the mid 19th century, mass starvation at the hands of the British government and its ruling class.

The long lived British Empire was wholly based on the exploitation of others. Your self-proclaimed virtue in this area is solely the result of the forced abandonment of your colonies at the hands of local rebels.

2 Replies

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