192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 01:29 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Do you know how to reach a site?

I know it is much easier with a link. Do you know how to copy and paste?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 01:38 pm
@coldjoint,
Bing does not play nice when you try to get a url from it. Do you know how to get to something when you're given the site name. It's really easy. I don't use emojis, topo ambiguous. I notice you overuse them. Shame.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 01:41 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Bing does not play nice when you try to get a url from it

Then get off the search engine and go to the site. Shocked
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 01:43 pm
@coldjoint,
Is the air you breathe somehow different from the air outside the U.S? Where was your cellphone made? The 21st century is global, however much you try to live in the 19th. Facts are facts, and those sites deal in them. Anybody you dislike for dealing in truths you find unpalatable you brand as globalist. It dkoesn't work.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 01:53 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Where was your cellphone made?

I do not have a cell phone. I have no need for one.
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 01:55 pm
@coldjoint,
When you stop posting in virtually illegible pink I'll get another search engine. Deal?
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 01:56 pm
@coldjoint,
I was right. 19th century.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 02:03 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
I was right. 19th century.

Back when the laws were obeyed? It can be that way again but the Democrats do not respect our Constitution or our laws and prefer non- citizens over citizens. Both are obvious.
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 02:05 pm
@coldjoint,
None of your statements in that post are true.
livinglava
 
  -1  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 02:07 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

Is the air you breathe somehow different from the air outside the U.S? Where was your cellphone made? The 21st century is global, however much you try to live in the 19th. Facts are facts, and those sites deal in them. Anybody you dislike for dealing in truths you find unpalatable you brand as globalist. It dkoesn't work.

Traditional nationalism is going to give way to global nationalism. It used to be people could just pretend the nation was the entire world and ignore the rest of the world.

What is happening more nowadays with more global awareness, however, is that people around the world are embracing globalism as a way to achieve more for their own nation, which they are supporting/favoring in their global activities.

I don't know how many people in the world are really capable of just respecting others as global citizens without discriminating on the basis of national identity. Trump has vocalized it in a way that invites critique, but the reality is that across the globe there are indeed people and governments that prioritize their own nation and citizens and view the global economy as nothing more than a set of opportunities to improve their own economic standing relative to other nations.

Quote:
The selfishness of nations is proverbial. It was a dictum of George Washington that nations were not to be trusted beyond their own interest.
- Reinhold Niebuhr, 1932
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 02:07 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
None of your statements in that post are true.

This is.
Quote:
Drunk Driving, Illegal Lawbreaker Kills 22-Year-Old Son of TN Fire Captain

Another preventable death.
http://www.independentsentinel.com/drunk-driving-illegal-lawbreaker-kills-22-year-old-son-of-tn-fire-captain/
0 Replies
 
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 02:18 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
I will ask again, what do you consider made up in the article? Do you have an answer or not?


Oh. You're serious. I'm not going to a backwards "blog" to state the obvious that Michael Crichton, although a wonderful writer and trained MD, used climate change as a basis for a fictional pleasure reading book:

Michael Crichton and Global Warming
David B. SandalowFriday, January 28, 2005

That—more than the merits of any scientific argument—is the most interesting question posed by Michael Crichton’s State of Fear.

The plot of Crichton’s 14th novel is notable mainly for its nuttiness—an MIT professor fights a wellfunded network of eco-terrorists trying to kill thousands by creating spectacular “natural” disasters. But Crichton uses his book as a vehicle for making two substantive arguments. In light of Crichton’s high profile and ability to command media attention, these arguments deserve scrutiny.

First, Crichton argues, the scientific evidence for global warming is weak. Crichton rejects many of the conclusions reached by the National Academy of Sciences and Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change—for example, he does not believe that global temperature increases in recent decades are most likely the result of human activities. In challenging the scientific consensus, Crichton rehashes points familiar to those who follow such issues. These points are unpersuasive, as explained below.

Second, Crichton argues that concern about global warming is best understood as a fad. In particular, he argues that many people concerned about global warming follow a herd mentality, failing critically to examine the data. Crichton is especially harsh in his portrayal of other members of the Hollywood elite, though his critique extends more broadly to the news media, intelligentsia and general public. This argument is more interesting and provocative, though ultimately unpersuasive as well.

1. Climate Science

Crichton makes several attempts to cast doubt on scientific evidence regarding global warming. First, he highlights the “urban heat island effect.” Crichton explains that cities are often warmer than the surrounding countryside and implies that observed temperature increases during the past century are the result of urban growth, not rising greenhouse gas concentrations.

This issue has been examined extensively in the peer-reviewed scientific literature and dismissed by the vast majority of earth scientists as an inadequate explanation of observed temperature rise. Ocean temperatures have climbed steadily during the past century, for example — yet this data is not affected by “urban heat islands.” Most land glaciers around the world are melting, far away from urban centers. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, using only peer-reviewed data, concluded that urban heat islands caused “at most” 0.05°C of the increase in global average temperatures during the period 1900-1990 — roughly one-tenth of the increase during this period. In contrast, as one source reports, “there are no known scientific peer-reviewed papers” to support the view that “the heat island effect accounts for much or nearly all warming recorded by land-based thermometers.”

Second, Crichton argues that global temperature declines from 1940-1970 disprove, or at least cast doubt on, scientific conclusions with respect to global warming. Since concentrations of greenhouse gases were rising during this period, says Crichton, the fact that global temperatures were falling calls into question the link between greenhouse gas concentrations and temperatures.

Crichton is correct that average temperatures declined, at least in the Northern Hemisphere, from 1940-1970. Temperature is the result of many factors, including the warming effects of greenhouse gases, the cooling effects of volcanic eruptions, changes in solar radiation and more. (Think of a game of tug-of-war, in which the number of players on each team changes frequently.) The fall in Northern Hemisphere temperatures from 1940-1970 reflects the relative weight of cooling factors during that period, not the absence of a warming effect from man-made greenhouse gases.

Should we at least be encouraged, recalling the decades from 1940-1970 in the hope that cooling factors will outweigh greenhouse warming in the decades ahead? Hardly. Greenhouse gas concentrations are now well outside levels previously experienced in human history and climbing sharply. Unless we change course, the relatively minor warming caused by man-made greenhouse gases in the last century will be dwarfed by much greater warming from such gases in the next century. There is no basis for believing that cooling factors such as those that dominated the temperature record from 1940-1970 will be sufficient to counteract greenhouse warming in the decades ahead.

Third, Crichton offers graph after graph showing temperature declines during the past century in places such as Puenta Arenas (Chile), Greenville (South Carolina), Ann Arbor (Michigan), Syracuse (New York) and Navacerrada (Spain). But global warming is an increase in global average temperatures. Nothing about specific local temperature declines is inconsistent with the conclusion that the planet as a whole has warmed during the past century, or that it will warm more in the next century if greenhouse gas concentrations continue to climb.

Crichton makes other arguments, but a point-by-point rebuttal is beyond the scope of this paper. (A thoughtful rebuttal of that kind can be found at www.realclimate.org.) Climate change science is a complex topic, not easily reduced to short summaries. But a useful contrast with Crichton’s scienceargument- within-an-action-novel is the sober prose of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences. The opening paragraph of a 2001 National Academy report responding to a request from the Bush White House read:

“Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth’s atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise. Temperatures are, in fact, rising. The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities, but we cannot rule out that some significant part of these changes is also a reflection of natural variability. Human-induced warming and associated sea level rises are expected to continue through the 21st century. Secondary effects are suggested by computer model simulations and basic physical reasoning. These include increases in rainfall rates and increased susceptibility of semi-arid regions to drought. The impacts of these changes will be critically dependent on the magnitude of the warming and the rate with which it occurs.”

Time will tell whether this report or Crichton’s novel will have a greater impact on public understanding of global warming.

2. Climate Fad

This raises the second, more interesting argument in Crichton’s novel. Crichton argues that concern about global warming has become a fad embraced by media elites, entertainment moguls, the scientific establishment and general public. In Crichton’s view, many assertions are accepted as fact without critical analysis by the vast majority of those who have views on this issue.

On the last point, fair enough. There are indeed fewer people who have sorted through the minutiae of climate change science than have opinions on the topic. In this regard, global warming is like Social Security reform, health care finance, the military budget and many other complex public policy issues. As Nelson Polsby and Aaron Wildavsky once wrote, “Most people don’t think about most issues most of the time.” When forming opinions on such matters, we all apply certain predispositions or instincts and rely on others whose judgment or expertise we trust.

Of course this observation applies as well to the economics of climate change. The perception is widespread in many circles that reducing greenhouse gas emissions will be ruinously expensive. How many of those who hold this view have subjected their opinions to critical analysis? Crichton never musters outrage on this topic.

Crichton’s complaints are particularly striking in light of the highly successful efforts to provide policymakers and the public with analytically rigorous, non-political advice on climate science. Since 1988, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has convened thousands of scientists, economists, engineers and other experts to review and distill the peer-reviewed literature on the science on global warming. The IPCC has produced three reports and is now at work on the fourth. In addition, the National Academy of Sciences has provided advice to the U.S. government on this topic, including the report cited above.

Crichton’s view that the American media provides a steady drumbeat of scary news on global warming is especially hard to fathom. Solid data are scarce, but one 1996 analysis found that the rock star Madonna was mentioned roughly 80 times more often than global warming in the Lexis- Nexis database. Certainly one could watch the evening news for weeks on end without ever seeing a global warming story.

Furthermore, the print media’s “on the one hand, on the other hand” convention tilts many global warming stories strongly toward Crichton’s point of view. As Crichton would concede, the vast majority of the world’s scientists believe that global warming is happening as a result of human activities and that the consequences of rising greenhouse gas emissions could be very serious. Still, many news stories on global warming include not just this mainstream view but also the “contrarian” views of a very small minority of climate change skeptics, giving roughly equal weight to each. As a result, public perceptions of the controversy surrounding these issues may be greatly exaggerated.

Crichton’s most serious charge is that “open and frank discussion of the data, and of the issues, is being suppressed” in the scientific community. As “proof,” he offers the assertion that many critics of global warming are retired professors no longer seeking grants. Whether there is any basis for these assertions is unclear, but if so Crichton should back up his claims with more than mere assertions in the appendix to an action novel.

Indeed Crichton should hold himself to a higher standard with regard to all the arguments in his book. He is plainly a very bright guy and, famously, a Harvard Medical School graduate. A millionaire many times over, he doesn’t need to be seeking grants. If he has something serious to say on the science of climate change, he should say so in a work of nonfiction and submit his work for peer review. The result could be instructive – for him and us all.

I would have thought a person as intelligent as yourself would be smarter than this.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 02:25 pm
@neptuneblue,
Quote:
If he has something serious to say on the science of climate change, he should say so in a work of nonfiction and submit his work for peer review. The result could be instructive – for him and us all.

Who is this joker to determine how serious Crichton is? Your author:


Quote:
Columbia Global Centers
David B. Sandalow
Research Interest
Energy and climate policy

No skin in the game there. Laughing Laughing Laughing
https://globalcenters.columbia.edu/content/david-b-sandalow
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 02:27 pm
@coldjoint,
So, you;re saying a fiction writer makes things come true? Wow!!! Like Sharknado??

Lol! You do keep me laughing!
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 02:48 pm
@neptuneblue,
Quote:
So, you;re saying a fiction writer makes things come true?

No, I said nothing like that. I guess you decided not to work on your comprehension.
neptuneblue
 
  3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 03:07 pm
@coldjoint,
Here, let me dumb it down for you:

https://www.skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-global-warming-intermediate.htm

Empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming

What the science says...

Direct observations find that CO2 is rising sharply due to human activity. Satellite and surface measurements find less energy is escaping to space at CO2 absorption wavelengths. Ocean and surface temperature measurements find the planet continues to accumulate heat. This gives a line of empirical evidence that human CO2 emissions are causing global warming.

Climate Myth...
There's no empirical evidence
"There is no actual evidence that carbon dioxide emissions are causing global warming. Note that computer models are just concatenations of calculations you could do on a hand-held calculator, so they are theoretical and cannot be part of any evidence." (David Evans)

The line of empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming is as follows:

We're raising CO2 levels
Human carbon dioxide emissions are calculated from international energy statistics, tabulating coal, brown coal, peat, and crude oil production by nation and year, going back to 1751. CO2 emissions have increased dramatically over the last century, climbing to the rate of 29 billion tonnes of CO2 per year in 2006 (EIA).

Atmospheric CO2 levels are measured at hundreds of monitoring stations across the globe. Independent measurements are also conducted by airplanes and satellites. For periods before 1958, CO2 levels are determined from air bubbles trapped in polar ice cores. In pre-industrial times over the last 10,000 years, CO2 was relatively stable at around 275 to 285 parts per million. Over the last 250 years, atmospheric CO2 levels have increased by about 100 parts per million. Currently, the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing by around 15 gigatonnes every year.


Figure 1: Atmospheric CO2 levels (Green is Law Dome ice core, Blue is Mauna Loa, Hawaii) and Cumulative CO2 emissions (CDIAC). While atmospheric CO2 levels are usually expressed in parts per million, here they are displayed as the amount of CO2 residing in the atmosphere in gigatonnes. CO2 emissions includes fossil fuel emissions, cement production and emissions from gas flaring.

Humans are emitting more than twice as much CO2 as what ends up staying there. Nature is reducing our impact on climate by absorbing more than half of our CO2 emissions. The amount of human CO2 left in the air, called the "airborne fraction", has hovered around 43% since 1958.

CO2 traps heat
According to radiative physics and decades of laboratory measurements, increased CO2 in the atmosphere is expected to absorb more infrared radiation as it escapes back out to space. In 1970, NASA launched the IRIS satellite measuring infrared spectra. In 1996, the Japanese Space Agency launched the IMG satellite which recorded similar observations. Both sets of data were compared to discern any changes in outgoing radiation over the 26 year period (Harries 2001). What they found was a drop in outgoing radiation at the wavelength bands that greenhouse gases such as CO2 and methane (CH4) absorb energy. The change in outgoing radiation was consistent with theoretical expectations. Thus the paper found "direct experimental evidence for a significant increase in the Earth's greenhouse effect". This result has been confirmed by subsequent papers using data from later satellites (Griggs 2004, Chen 2007).

Figure 2: Change in spectrum from 1970 to 1996 due to trace gases. 'Brightness temperature' indicates equivalent blackbody temperature (Harries 2001).

When greenhouse gases absorb infrared radiation, the energy heats the atmosphere which in turn re-radiates infrared radiation in all directions. Some makes its way back to the earth's surface. Hence we expect to find more infrared radiation heading downwards. Surface measurements from 1973 to 2008 find an increasing trend of infrared radiation returning to earth (Wang 2009). A regional study over the central Alps found that downward infrared radiation is increasing due to the enhanced greenhouse effect (Philipona 2004). Taking this a step further, an analysis of high resolution spectral data allowed scientists to quantitatively attribute the increase in downward radiation to each of several greenhouse gases (Evans 2006). The results lead the authors to conclude that "this experimental data should effectively end the argument by skeptics that no experimental evidence exists for the connection between greenhouse gas increases in the atmosphere and global warming."

Figure 3: Spectrum of the greenhouse radiation measured at the surface. Greenhouse effect from water vapor is filtered out, showing the contributions of other greenhouse gases (Evans 2006).

The planet is accumulating heat
When there is more energy coming in than escaping back out to space, our climate accumulates heat. The planet's total heat build up can be derived by adding up the heat content from the ocean, atmosphere, land and ice (Murphy 2009). Ocean heat content was determined down to 3000 metres deep. Atmospheric heat content was calculated from the surface temperature record and heat capacity of the troposphere. Land and ice heat content (eg - the energy required to melt ice) were also included.

Figure 4: Total Earth Heat Content from 1950 (Murphy 2009). Ocean data taken from Domingues et al 2008.

From 1970 to 2003, the planet has been accumulating heat at a rate of 190,260 gigawatts with the vast majority of the energy going into the oceans. Considering a typical nuclear power plant has an output of 1 gigawatt, imagine 190,000 nuclear power plants pouring their energy output directly into our oceans. What about after 2003? A map of of ocean heat from 2003 to 2008 was constructed from ocean heat measurements down to 2000 metres deep (von Schuckmann 2009). Globally, the oceans have continued to accumulate heat to the end of 2008 at a rate of 0.77 ± 0.11 Wm?2, consistent with other determinations of the planet's energy imbalance (Hansen 2005, Trenberth 2009). The planet continues to accumulate heat.

Figure 5: Time series of global mean heat storage (0–2000 m), measured in 108 Jm-2.

So we see a direct line of evidence that we're causing global warming. Human CO2 emissions far outstrip the rise in CO2 levels. The enhanced greenhouse effect is confirmed by satellite and surface measurements. The planet's energy imbalance is confirmed by summations of the planet's total heat content and ocean heat measurements.

For more evidence that humans are causing global warming, check out The human fingerprint in global warming.
coldjoint
 
  -3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 03:23 pm
@neptuneblue,
Quote:
Here, let me dumb it down for you:

Let me dumb it down for you. China and India and other nations are responsible too. The burden should not require destroying this country by wealth redistribution. They saw you coming.
neptuneblue
 
  4  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 03:34 pm
@coldjoint,
Oh. Ok. So, now you're NOT denying climate change, you're saying all because there are countries causing just as much damage as us, we shouldn't have to change anything we do or to help others change as well?

coldjoint
 
  -3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 03:44 pm
@neptuneblue,
Quote:
Oh. Ok. So, now you're NOT denying climate change,

The earth is billions of years old, I expect changes in climate.
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  -2  
Tue 1 Jan, 2019 05:20 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
Here, let me dumb it down for you:

Let me dumb it down for you. China and India and other nations are responsible too. The burden should not require destroying this country by wealth redistribution. They saw you coming.

Wealth redistribution and socialism generally won't help restore natural climate, they'll hurt it. If anything, the socialists are trying to connect the ideas of climate restoration with socialism because they are afraid that climate restoration will otherwise hurt the expansion of the economy to give the maximum number of people maximum access to material wealth (i.e. socialism).
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.49 seconds on 05/17/2025 at 01:01:31