monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

@Lash,

Where did you get the notion that Erdogan is promising to eradicate Kurds?

I really shouldn't have to explain things like this to you. The Kurds are a people without a nation. There is no Kurdistan, but there are groups of Kurds in Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Iran. None of these nations want to give up territory, but the Kurds in Iraq and Syria have a certain level of autonomy.

The Kurdish separatists in Turkey are classed as terrorists and Erdogan believes Syrian Kurds are linked to "terrorist" Turkish Kurds. He wants to stop any talk of a united Kurdistan by attacking an organisation he deems terrorist.

Admittedly that will cause a lot of collateral damage, but it's a far cry from saying that Erdogan wants to eradicate all Kurds.

Quote:

It’s time for us to stop all military intervention in that region

Are you saying that the 5th fleet should leave its base in Bahrain? I'm sure the majority Shia population would welcome such a move.

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Quote:

US stocks suffered one of the worst weekly falls in a decade as trade tensions with China, interest rate rises and a possible government shutdown rattled markets.

All three indexes closed lower, with the technology-focused Nasdaq down 20% since its peak, placing it in so-called "bear market" territory.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average recorded its biggest weekly drop in percentage terms since 2008.

The S&P 500 fell 7% for the week.

It is the biggest weekly percentage drop since August 2011 while the Nasdaq's 8.36% decline is the sharpest since November 2008.

The Dow Jones fell 6.8% during the week.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46654064

I can only imagine that as Trump took the credit for the stock market doing well he will now take responsibility for its poor performance.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I think this NATO membership should be pressed.

What do you mean here? Many question, why Turkey still is a Nato member (there is no precedence for removing members in Nato statutes), starting in 1974 when Turkey invaded Cyprus.

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@nimh,

There is a major flaw in your thesis here. The United States did not "intervene" in World War II. The Euro-centric view is that the second world war began in 1939, with the German invasion of Poland. A good case can be made---I have made in these fora before--that the second world war began in 1937 at the beginning of the Second Sino-Japanese War. That war saw Japan not only invade China, but engage the Soviet Union in Mongolia, and significantly, to bomb the American gunboat Panay in the Yangtse River at Nanking (now called Nanjing) at the time of the event known as the rape of Nanking. The Japanese did not want American intervention, so they publicly apologized (something very humiliating for them) and they paid reparations.

Even if one simply focuses on Germany's military adventurism in Europe, the United States did not enter that war until Germany declared war on the United States, after the Japanese attack on Hawaii. It is also a bit rich to see any European sitting in judgment of the United States given that the world still suffers from the consequences of European colonialism more than fifty years after most of those colonies were lost or given up. The Dutch were not behind hand in that colonialism, and began in 1595 in the spice trade from Java. In 1602, all the Dutch efforts were consolidated under what in English is called the Dutch East India Company. They were as ambitious as any of their neighbors, too. They set up a colony in North America in 1624, and overran and took over the Swedish colony on the Atlantic coast of North America, before the Duke of York took New Amsterdam away from them.

Rather than continuing the list of Dutch enormities, I will just say that the hypocrisy of Europeans who complain about American interventions is disgusting. They were happy enough to see the United States intervene in Europe, and happy enough to see the United States take over the role of international policeman after 1945. How convenient for them that they now have the United States to blame and scold as the consequences of European colonialism continue to plague the globe.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Maybe the member nations should re-visit this issue.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Where did you get the notion that Erdogan is promising to eradicate Kurds?

From Turkey’s Defense Minister. I really shouldn’t have to tell you this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/turkey-threatens-to-bury-kurdish-militants-in-syria-amid-us-withdrawal/2018/12/20/06d8eb18-0460-11e9-958c-0a601226ff6b_story.html

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

It is also a bit rich to see any European sitting in judgment of the United States given that the world still suffers from the consequences of European colonialism more than fifty years after most of those colonies were lost or given up.

Not as rich as seeing a rich American pontificate to someone from a country that was first given to Hitler then thrown under the Stalinist bus after WW2

Quote:

I will just say that the hypocrisy of Europeans who complain about American interventions is disgusting.

Not as disgusting as the Americans who complain about European imperialism then use it to justify their own neo imperialism. The native Americans are still recovering from the genocide inflicted on them by you, (one which inspired Hitler btw,) and they still get treated as 2nd class citizens.

And that's before we even consider the Vietnam genocide, something you were an enthusiastic participant in.

The difference between those of us Europeans who condemn American imperialism and people like yourself is that we don't consider our own imperialism to be a good thing. You are always trying to justify the slaughter of the native American by cherry picking facts and revisionism.

As you've pointed out, America got involved in Europe after Hitler declared war on you, hardly a principled stance. Perhaps if America had taken a more active role internationally and stopped the likes of Henry Ford funding Hitler there wouldn't have been a war in the first place.

The disgusting hypocrisy is all yours.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

I can only imagine that as Trump took the credit for the stock market doing well he will now take responsibility for its poor performance.

Maybe he'll start referring to it as "Obama's economy" now.

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@Lash,

A link to a paywall is not a source. You do this all the time because there's no proof in what you're saying. Even your link's name says Turkey threatens to bury Kurdish militants, not Kurds. There is a distinction.

In future if you claim something provide an actual source not some Mickey Mouse subscription screen, that way you might be taken seriously.

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@izzythepush,

Dude, you lie. The word militants didn’t appear in the headline or the article. Jesus Christ, I’m surprised by your attempt to hide the fact that you didn’t know what you were talking about. Sometimes, you just gotta cop to being wrong—I certainly have experience. We all do, but ****, don’t lie.

Turkey threatens to ‘bury’ Kurdish forces in Syria amid U.S. withdrawal

By Erin Cunningham
December 20, 2018 at 12:37 PM

ISTANBUL —Turkey’s defense minister said Thursday that Kurdish forces in Syria would be “buried” in their trenches in any Turkish operation to rout the fighters from the border, just one day after President Trump announced a withdrawal of U.S. troops from the country.

Speaking from the Qatari capital, Doha, Hulusi Akar said Turkey was preparing “intensely” for a military offensive east of the Euphrates River in Syria, where Kurdish-led forces have battled the Islamic State militant group.

The fighters have dug trenches and tunnels in the area in anticipation of the operation, Akar said, according to Turkey’s official Anadolu news agency.

“But whatever they dig . . . when the time comes they will be buried in the trenches,” he said. “Of this there should no doubt.”

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@Lash,

The reason is quite simple: Turkey's government says the YPG and the PYD are extensions of the PKK, share its goal of secession through armed struggle, and thus are all terrorist organisations.

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@Walter Hinteler,

A couple of minutes ago, Reuters reported:

Quote:

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - Turkey is sending reinforcements to its border with Syria, Demiroren News Agency (DHA) reported on Sunday, adding that some 100 vehicles including mounted pickup trucks and weaponry had made their way to the area.

The heightened military activity comes days after President Tayyip Erdogan said Turkey would postpone a planned military operation on Kurdish YPG militia east of the Euphrates river in northern Syria following the United States’ decision to withdraw from Syria.

DHA said the Turkish convoy, headed toward the border district of Kilis in the southern province of Hatay, included tanks, howitzers, machine guns and buses carrying commandos.

Part of the military equipment and personnel are to be positioned in posts along the border while some had crossed into Syria via the district of Elbeyli, DHA said.

Elbeyli is situated 45 kilometers (27.96 miles) northwest of the northern Syrian town of Manbij, which has been a major flashpoint between Ankara and Washington.

In June, the NATO allies reached an agreement that would see the YPG ousted from Manbij but Turkey has complained the roadmap has been delayed.

Footage from broadcaster TRT World showed parts of the convoy entering Syria via the Turkish border town of Karkamis in the southeastern province of Gaziantep, 35 kilometers north of Manbij.

The convoys are crossing into area controlled by the Free Syrian Army (FSA), a Turkish ally, and are heading to the frontlines of Manbij, TRT World said.

Reuters could not independently verify the reason for the reinforcements and Turkish officials were not immediately available for comment.

Turkey, with support from the FSA, carried out two cross-border operations in northern Syria, dubbed “Euphrates Shield” and “Olive Branch”, against the YPG and Islamic State.

The military offensives were focused on areas to the west of the Euphrates and Turkey has not gone east of the river, partly to avoid direct confrontation with U.S. forces. The operations carved out de facto buffer zones, which are currently under the control of Turkey and the FSA.

Erdogan said on Friday that Turkey will take over the fight against Islamic State militants in Syria as the United States withdraws its troops, adding that the planned operation would also target the YPG.

Ankara considers the U.S.-backed YPG militia a terrorist organization and an extension of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), which has waged an insurgency in Turkey since the 1980s.

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@izzythepush,

No one "gave" Holland to Hitler. German paratroopers landed in Holland on May 10, 1940. I have not attempted to justify anything. The United States did not commit, nor attempt to commit genocide in Vietnam. It is another bald-faced lie that I have ever attempted to justify the slaughter of aboriginal Americans. If you did not constantly lie, you'd have nothing to say.

Have you been up all night drinking and/or doing drugs? The amount of bullshit in your post would do a Kansas feed lot proud. As for me being a "rich American"--I wish.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I guess all stateless people fighting for safety or land to live are included in the term *terrorists.*

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@Lash,

Well, the Kurds are not "stateless" but want an own country (some, at least).

Parts of the PKK are nowadays considered by many to be terrorist organisations. (They started in Germany with a "honour killing" in 1999.)

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This is broken into easily processed pieces for anyone interested.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/middle-east-news/syria/scared-to-death-kurds-in-syria-trapped-between-threat-from-assad-and-erdogan-1.6765949

Way down the scroll:

A Turkish invasion
The concern over the threat of a Turkish invasion stems in part from reports from the Afrin region of northwestern Syria, an area captured by Turkey with the help of Syrian rebels in March of this year. Since the Turkish conquest, this Kurdish region, which had been under the control of the PYD's Kurdish militias, has undergone a significant demographic shift. Syrian Arabs who had been living in areas under the control of the opposition and who were expelled this year when the rebels in the area surrendered have moved into the homes of Kurds who fled Afrin during the Turkish assault. In addition to the demographic shift, armed Syrian factions acting under Turkey’s auspices have looted Afrin and are continuing to rob the residents, humiliate them at roadblocks and arrest anyone who is suspected of harboring opposition to the new rulers, particularly opposition to Syrian Arabs who have taken over Kurdish homes.
The threat of a return of the Assad regime also frightens local residents. Under Assad's Baath regime, prior to the civil war, Kurds suffered from ethnic cleansing in border areas as a result of a policy of confiscation of their lands and suppression of their identity. Describing life prior to the outbreak of the civil war in 2011, H., a journalist who lives in the town Amuda, recounted: “They stripped the Kurds of citizenship, banned speaking our language and imposed the Baath party ideology on us.”

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@Walter Hinteler,

Stateless nations can have large populations ; for example the Kurds have an estimated population of over 30 million people, which make them one of the largest stateless nations. ... As not all states are nation states, there are ethnic groups who live in multinational states without being considered "stateless nations".
Stateless nation - Wikipedia
————————

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‘Very possible’ that government shutdown could last into the new year, says White House budget director Mick Mulvaney

Quote:

“It’s very possible that this shutdown will go beyond the 28th and into the new Congress,” Mulvaney, the director of the Office of Management and Budget, said on “Fox News Sunday.

The new Congress is scheduled to convene on Jan. 3.

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@hightor,

Quote:

Yet I don't think you can reasonably expect people to stand by and watch wide-scale atrocities, military incursions, and mass executions occurring without starting to clamor for somebody to do something.

Yes. The compelling aspect of neoconservative ideology is the recognition of a moral duty to, somehow, reduce atrocities outside one's own nation.

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I posted this elsewhere, but here it is here. The Democrats have already capitulated in the shutdown argument. The "negotiations" are between 1.3 and 5, instead of 0 and 5. Them increments I read about always end with one step back.

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