192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
layman
 
  0  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 01:27 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:


However, in the ABC interview I saw, she was clearly implying that media that were insistent on holding the administration to account (she was refusing to answer a question...it was a loaded question but does anyone seriously doubt that Trump's inauguration crowds were much smaller than Obama's? ) would be limited in their access.

If you seriously think the press secretary didn't come out at the first press conference with an obvious lie, then we will likely never agree on anything so debate probably is a bit pointless.


1. I don't recall her exact words, but your conclusion regarding "limited access" is just that, a conclusion of yours, not anything she said. She said they would have to "re-evaluate their relationship," as I recall. There is, obviously, something of an open war between Trump and the media. He has made some attempts to tone that down, and he has, perhaps, at times, expressed open animosity.

If they can't arrive at some peace treaty, then it will be war to the finish, I guess. Being "at war" and "at peace" are, needless to say, quite different "relationships." If they're "at war" they would probably get increased access so they could be publicly humiliated more frequently, ya know?

2. You say it's an "obvious lie," but once again, that's a subjective conclusion. There are reasons the guy might have said that. These are the so-called "alternative facts." All that means is other, disregarded facts, that might lead one to a different, yet honest, conclusion. In context (which, by the way, the media clips shown by CNN, et al are always abbreviated, and stop with their blowhard saying "there are no alternative facts"), she really meant alternate conclusions (not facts, per se) based on considering different facts.

Many people think their own conclusions, based upon whatever premises they choose to adopt, are indubitable fact.

Quote:
"The trouble with the world is not that people know too little, but that they know so many things that ain't so." (S. Clemens)
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 01:39 am
@dlowan,
Quote:
So, you think the more responsible media won't be cowed?

They won't be cowed, for the most part. The print media are being very responsible now (and have been for months) calling lies as lies, for example, and where appropriate, calling out Trump and his people for other violations of traditional norms of governance, transparency, civility, legality, etc. They've recognized for a long time now the threats this guy poses to press freedom (and to the nation more broadly) and they are taking their responsibilities seriously. This extends down to lots of the best online entities as well.

But I can't speak to TV news with as much authority as I don't attend to it in the way I do to print. As in the past, they will be more prone to he said/she said coverage (some say the earth is round, these people disagree) as a consequence of their need to fill up broadcast hours and to gain eyeballs (advertising income is based on this) through drama and conflict.

But beyond all that, it's important to understand that in the US a separate media universe has been built up to capture and hold the conservative base in an isolated information universe. Murdoch's FOX is the reigning voice here but there are now many other such sources which right wing Americans commonly use as the places to go for news/opinion. American media is now bifurcated in this way.
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 01:40 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
I like her expression "alternative facts".

Yeah. She's going to regret that one. Just a little too obvious.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 01:47 am
"Alternative facts"

1. I've heard that the head of Trump's inaugural committee was told by CNN's Anderson Cooper that Trump's crowd was bigger than Obama's and that he passed that on to Reinholt (or whatever his name is).

2. It has been noted that the view from the capitol building gives one an entirely different perspective than an overhead photograph, and gives one the impression that the crowd is continuous.

3. Protestors promised to, and did in fact, close down some checkpoints, and otherwise disrupt traffic and harass supporters. As a consequence, it has been noted that many arrived late, while the photographs highlighted by the MSN were taken early, etc.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 01:53 am
@layman,
First the alt-right, now the alt-facts. What's next? Alt-love? Alt-truth? Alt-annuses?
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 01:54 am
Quote:
Quote Finn:
She is a smart, tough and compassionate woman who blatham and Blickers would be praising to the high heavens if she were a progressive...which she most definitely is not.

Goebbels was very smart. Stalin was tough. Compassionate? How would you know? As to your suggestion that I or others would be praising her if she was a liberal voice - that's a fine example of projection.
layman
 
  0  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 01:57 am
The complaint from the Trump camp here is not really the size of the crowd, per se, but rather the continuing attempt by the media to push their agenda of casting Trump as someone who is, and should be, rejected by the populace.

Falsely tweeting that Trump took MLK's bust out the the oval office, for example, just feeds the "Trump is a racist" narrative that they are so eager to promote.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 02:04 am
@dlowan
Take a look at this New York Times piece running on the front page today above the fold
NYT link
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 02:09 am
Quote:
A team of prominent constitutional scholars, Supreme Court litigators and former White House ethics lawyers intends to file a lawsuit Monday morning alleging that President Trump is violating the Constitution by allowing his hotels and other business operations to accept payments from foreign governments.

The lawsuit is among a barrage of legal actions against the Trump administration that have been initiated or are being planned by major liberal advocacy organizations. Such suits are among the few outlets they have to challenge the administration now that Republicans are in control of the government.

In the new case, the lawyers argue that a provision in the Constitution known as the Emoluments Clause bans payments from foreign powers like the ones to Mr. Trump’s companies. They cite fears among the framers of the Constitution that United States officials could be corrupted by gifts or payments.
NYT
At this point and for some unknown period, we won't be able to count on congress to do anything but operate as an agent for Trump. It will mainly be extra-governmental entities that will have to police what he does or fails to do.


layman
 
  0  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 02:11 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

@dlowan
Take a look at this New York Times piece running on the front page today above the fold
NYT link


It's never propaganda when your side of the conflict is claiming it, eh?

Quote:
Speaking later on Saturday in the White House briefing room, Mr. Spicer amplified Mr. Trump’s false claims. “This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration — period — both in person and around the globe,” he said.

There is no evidence to support this claim. Not only was Mr. Trump’s inauguration crowd far smaller than Mr. Obama’s in 2009, but he also drew fewer television viewers in the United States (30.6 million) than Mr. Obama did in 2009 (38 million) and Ronald Reagan did in 1981 (42 million), Nielsen reported. Figures for online viewership were not available


Who watches TV anymore? I have one that I haven't turned on for years. I can see anything I want online. People worldwide were watching this with more interest than usual, and there are definitely more people online now than 8 years ago. Trump is probably right that "This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration — period — both in person and around the globe."

I'm sure that, like me, many others just tuned in to see the "Bikers for Trump" kick some bigtime commie ass, eh? No such promise with Obama--no candyass, "anti-capitalist" protesters then.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 02:13 am
@blatham,
"Intend to file a lawsuit," eh? Well, now, aint that just *special.*

Good luck with that, cheese-eaters.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 02:17 am
Quote:
The traditional way of reporting on a president is dead. And Trump’s press secretary killed it.

The presidency is not a reality show, but President Trump on his first full day in office made clear that he’s still obsessed with being what he once proudly called “a ratings machine.”

He cares enough about it to send his press secretary, Sean Spicer, out to brazenly lie to the media in his first official briefing.

“This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration — period — both in person and around the globe,” Spicer said. And he added a scolding about widespread reports that differ from his evidence-free assessment: “These attempts to lessen the enthusiasm of the inauguration are shameful and wrong.”

Crowd size experts estimate Trump’s audience at far fewer than the million or more that Trump is claiming, and at far less than the size of the following day’s women’s march, which the new president has said little about. And side-by-side photographs showed the contrast between the comparatively thin gathering for Trump’s inauguration and the record-setting one in 2009 for former president Barack Obama’s first.
Margaret Sullivan at WP
And this:
Quote:
CNN wisely chose not to air the briefing in full, but to report on it and to show parts, providing context. Fox News showed it in its full glory, infomercial style.
layman
 
  1  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 02:23 am
@blatham,
Quote:
CNN wisely chose not to air the briefing in full, but to report on it and to show parts, providing context. Fox News showed it in its full glory, infomercial style.


Yeah, unlike CNN, Fox did not selectively "edit" the conference to put just exactly the slant on it that they wanted to project.

That damn Fox gave the public the full truth, the bastards.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 02:39 am
From EJ Dionne
Quote:
Republicans no longer have Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton to kick around. For years, they were able to direct the country’s discontents toward a president they loathed and then a Democratic nominee they disliked even more.

With control of both elected branches, the GOP, including Trump, is the establishment. Over time, this will make the faux populist anti-establishment appeal of Trump’s inaugural address ring empty.
WP

Thinking about this, you can see that "the press is our enemy" also gives Trump and the GOP a new target to direct the right wing audience's desire or need for the black/white or us/them framing. That need is a deep-seated element in right wing ideology (see Hofstadter's The Paranoid Style in American Politics).

Re Trump's use of "establishment" as I've noted before, this is a con of the bait and switch sort. He says "government" or "DC" is the problem (the swamp) but government now is himself and the Republican controlled Congress whose leadership is DC (most senior GOP politicos are lifetime politicians). Further, his cabinet posts have gone almost universally to multi-millionaires including many from banking and from the corporate sphere. There aren't any Joe the Plumbers anywhere in sight.
layman
 
  0  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 02:52 am
@blatham,
Quote:
(see Hofstadter's The Paranoid Style in American Politics).


Quote:
The Paranoid Style in Liberal Politics

Whether we are considering taxation, benefits, electoral fraud, or medical care, it seems impossible to debate social issues without a comparable liberal assumption of deep-laid racist plots. In such controversies, conservatives are not just adversaries, they are enemies with far-reaching subversive agendas, whose view deserve no consideration. They are obstacles on the road to a shining future of state-guaranteed justice and equality

By all means, read Hofstadter’s 1964 essay, with its dissection of political lunacy. Note especially his conclusion that “We are all sufferers from history, but the paranoid is a double sufferer, since he is afflicted not only by the real world, with the rest of us, but by his fantasies as well.” Was there ever a better anatomy of contemporary liberalism?


http://www.theamericanconservative.com/2013/11/06/the-paranoid-style-in-liberal-politics/
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 03:06 am
Re womens' march
Quote:
“This outpouring today is extraordinary and inspiring. But if all this energy isn't channeled into sustained pol action, it will mean little,” tweeted David Axelrod, the chief strategist behind Barack Obama’s winning campaigns.

That's right. What folks must resist is the sort of naive notions that prevailed with the Occupy movement which, as a fundamental principle, rejected hierarchy and organizational structure, possibly the stupidest idea ever and it's why the movement died.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 03:12 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

They won't be cowed, for the most part. The print media are being very responsible now (and have been for months)...


Heh, yeah, right, eh?

Cheese-eaters like to draw attention to polls claiming Trump's approval rating is only around 40%

Guess what the approval rating for the media is, eh? 6%.

That's right, 94% disapprove of the deceitful bastards and don't trust them for a second.

This will be the mother of all beatdowns. When it's over, the printed press will be finished. They're on the ropes, and they know it. They're desperate and understandably so. Their ever-increasing shrillness will not "save" them. On the contrary, it will only serve to accelerate their demise.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 03:14 am
http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/w_652/vsipu4oisfat0yukcioi.jpg

layman
 
  0  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 03:22 am
@blatham,
Trump supporters don't need no bus ride. They come on motorcycles and in their own pick-up trucks.

The bus-ridin DC residents voted 96% for Clinton. They don't want to see their swamp drained. Too much to lose, ya know?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 23 Jan, 2017 03:38 am
http://i64.tinypic.com/317jz7s.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/dn0etc.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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