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monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
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Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 10:49 am
@revelette1,
Trump wrote:
We’re the only country in the world where a person comes in and has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Jus_soli_world.svg/620px-Jus_soli_world.svg.png
Countries by jus soli

¤¤¤ Unconditional or near-unconditional jus soli for persons born in the country

¤¤¤ Jus soli with restrictions

¤¤¤ Jus soli abolished

Jus soli - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 11:05 am
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:
Hmm. Are these terrorist nations? Are these nations run by dictators? Are these nations terrible on human rights? Neither are we
Why do you connect ius sanguinis to dictators and/or being terrible on human rights?
Ius sanguinis is used by most developed countries to get some deeply ingrained sense of national identity.
The vast majority of USAmerican citizens immigrated in the past few centuries. That has a huge effect on how the country sees itself, a nation without the depth of history of other countries. As a result, the national identity is derived more from a sense of national ideals than shared history.
Thus, you got the ius soli.

Quote:
The following are among the nations repealing Birthright Citizenship in recent years:
[...]
France (1993)
[...]
UK (1983)
That's only partly true
- France: child (legitimate or natural) is French if born in France to at least one parent also born in France or French citizen. ... ... ...
- UK: it's mixed:
> ius soli: By birth in the UK or a qualified British Overseas Territory to a parent who is a British citizen at the time of the birth, or to a parent who is settled in the UK or that Overseas Territory
> ius sanguinis: By birth abroad, which constitutes "by descent" if one of the parents is a British citizen otherwise than by descent (for example by birth, adoption, registration or naturalisation in the UK). British citizenship by descent is only transferable to one generation down from the parent who is a British citizen otherwise than by descent, if the child is born abroad. ... ... ...
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 11:14 am
@Walter Hinteler,
We used to have a simpler law: born in France=French by right. It's Sarkozy who changed that, if memory serves. Now a kid born in France of foreign parents and who lives in the country will be given the nationality at 18, upon request. A complex and unfriendly law.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 11:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I wonder how far you could peel this back? if your parents were born to people who were not citizens at the time of your parents birth - they would not be citizens and then neither would you.

I hope the Native American community takes this on as a cause and kicks all the fools who support this out.
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Baldimo
 
  -3  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 11:45 am
@ehBeth,
Why are you misstating what the nature of the change would be? No one would lose citizenship, it would only address people who come here or are born after it would take effect.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 11:52 am
@Baldimo,
If people in the US are going to start fussing with their amendments, might as well go all the way and get them right.

Birthright doesn't count? Fine, bump it all the way back to the beginning - when the Constitution was written/signed.
___


Once the 14th Amendment has been adjusted - all of them are fair game - including the 2nd.


__

Actually - if the Constitution has so little value, might as well give the land back to the first nations' peoples and boot everyone else out. Clean house and start fresh.

__

Does that all sound stupid?

Fine.

So does the proposed change to the 14th Amendment.
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 12:01 pm
@revelette1,
Quote:
If republicans back this new idea from Trump they will be the biggest hypocrites alive.

This isn't a new idea, it has been talked about for many years now, in fact it has been discussed on this very site in the past. Here's a Politifact article fact checking S.E. Cupp on her claims if the US being one of the only "developed" nations in world who still has birth right citizenship.
https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/aug/23/se-cupp/se-cupp-only-about-30-other-countries-offer-birthr/

Quote:
For years now they have resisted almost any sensible new gun laws and/or regulations citing the constitution as the reason why.

The difference being, gun laws have been created and challenged in the courts, and the courts especially the SCOTUS has ruled in favor of the 2nd Amendment. It has even been declared by the SCOTUS in 2 different cases that we have the right have have guns. This has never been done with the 14th Amendment on citizenship. The original intent of the 14th Amendment was to declare slaves as US citizens, it wasn't to declare everyone born on US soil was a citizen.

Quote:
Well, as it can be seen in the last paragraph above, this president wants to ignore/go around the 14th amendment wherein (unlike the second amendment) it is clearly stated all persons born in the US are citizens of the US and of the state where they reside. I do not see a way around that.

As I said above, the original intent of the amendment was to declare slaves as US citizens. If he does sign an EO/EA on this matter, you can bet the leftists will find a judge who will block it because it was signed by Trump. Of course you can bet Trump is betting on that very thing taking place, which will push the matter to the SCOTUS, where a final ruling will be made. It's actually quite brilliant, have the SCOTUS define the Amendment, all without the drama of getting the 14th Amendment changed by the politicians who won't do anything about it, they prefer the status quo.

maporsche
 
  2  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 12:04 pm
@ehBeth,
People over a hundred of years ago couldn’t have foreseen this. Our world has changed. Our constitution is designed to change with the times.

Except for guns, they totally foresaw the need for semiautomatic, high round, super accurate, high rate of fire, high power rifles. And Grenade launchers. Can’t change that one.
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 12:16 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
If people in the US are going to start fussing with their amendments, might as well go all the way and get them right.

We have been "fussing" with our Amendments since they were written, after all, they are our Amendments, not Canada's Amendments.

Quote:
Birthright doesn't count? Fine, bump it all the way back to the beginning - when the Constitution was written/signed.

We have the right to change our citizenship rules, just as Canada does if they so choose.

Quote:
Once the 14th Amendment has been adjusted - all of them are fair game - including the 2nd.

As I noted in my last post, the anti-gun left has been trying to change the 2nd Amendment for decades now, going as far as to write laws that have already been struck down as unconstitutional, and the SCOTUS keeps ruling against them.

What in your eyes makes the 14th Amendment so much more important than any other Amendment in modern day law?

Quote:
Actually - if the Constitution has so little value, might as well give the land back to the first nations' peoples and boot everyone else out. Clean house and start fresh.

The only people who think the Constitution has so little value are the leftists in the US. Much like in Canada, leftists here want to due away with the 1st Amendment because words hurt people's feelings and hurt feelings are the same as being physically assaulted. They have done away with due process as can be seen in their smears against Brett Kavanaugh. They want to throw away with the 2nd Amendment because they think it only applies to Muskets. The concept of personal property or private business has no meaning to Socialists, those are the very things the Constitution was meant to protect and yet Socialism has a strong following here in the US.

So tell me, who really wants to do away with the Constitution?
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 12:28 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
Birthright doesn't count?

Why don't you concentrate on saving what little free speech you have left in Canada?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 12:41 pm
@Baldimo,
As you may know SCOTUS has already ruled on what the 14th amendment says. It affirmed it back in 1890 something...

2nd Amendment has only been futzed with since the "gun lobby" started to make It part of a neat sales commercial.
We wnt through this before. Wht about Congress's role and the states ratification?? Did that cease in your world too?
0 Replies
 
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farmerman
 
  4  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 12:44 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
This has never been done with the 14th Amendment on citizenship. The original intent of the 14th Amendment was to declare slaves as US citizens, it wasn't to declare everyone born on US soil was a citizen.


Sorry Baldy, you are wrong. The USSC has already trimmed a bit of the 2nd amendment in 1935 and has affirmed th 14Th A back in the late 1800's
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -4  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 12:47 pm
@georgeob1,
The cartoonists, Kountouris has employed the metaphors of the Adam & Eve mythos in a sloppy and hamfisted manner, but he probably considers himself an artist and had to make even a feeble attempt at allusion.

Each of the three major world religions that contain the tale of Adam & Eve in their sacred texts has different versions of the story, however, they generally agree that God created Adam & Eve and set them up in paradise. They were indulged by their creator in most ways but he forbid them to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge or The Tree of The Knowledge of Good & Evil. A serpent in paradise leads them to violate God's order, and as a result:

1. Their view of the world and life changed dramatically and
2. They were cast out of paradise and made to know suffering (pretty quickly) and eventually death.

The cartoon depicts Adam & Eve cowering naked in the Garden of Eden while a gang of right-wing serpents approaches them menacingly from above. It appears that at least Adam is attempting to cover his nakedness which suggests the scene takes place after the couple ate the forbidden fruit. I suppose the cartoonist must be granted some artistic license and so I won't quibble too much over the fact that his depiction is inconsistent with every version of the tale (and not simply as regards the number of serpents on the scene). None of the versions tell of the serpent using the threat of violence to coerce Eve to take that first bite, and none include the serpent attacking or threatening to attack the couple after they have sinned, but maybe Kountouris wants to provide progressives with a ray of hope: Take heart! Adam & Eve having tasted the fruit are now well aware of the evil nature of the serpents who deceived them (Considering how recently some of these serpents have risen to power, such a view wouldn't exactly hold up.)

The cartoonist, however, chose the Adam & Eve tale for a reason. He could have drawn a cartoon depicting werewolves (labeled "Le Pen," "Trump" etc) attacking crippled children if his only message was "These people are evil monsters!" So, despite his incongruent scene, it seems safe to assume that he intended to incorporate the notion of seduction in his message. The serpents certainly don't look seductive, but they wouldn't have to if the scene is post-sin. His readers would be expected to know enough about the myth to understand how the scene developed...if they bothered to give it any more thought beyond, "These people are evil monsters!"

Taking the scene as drawn, the obvious message is that these right-wing populist snakes seduced Adam & Eve (i.e. their millions of followers), caused them to sin against God (i.e. progressivism? secular humanism? Barrack Obama?), and now realize or are coming to realize that they are in a real mess as a result. However, leftist and modern progressive ideology across the globe consistently holds to notions of a Utopian society; a Garden of Eden in which the State makes sure everyone is treated fairly and the riches of the earth are shared equally. Kountouris implies with his cartoon that the places in which these various serpents reside and (in some cases) rule were utopian before the right-wing populists slithered in. It’s a preposterous notion.

First of all, each of the serpents is quite different as respects the extent of their power and the stage of their despoiling, but Kountouris forces them into a homogeneous group intended to represent the serpent on the basis of two superficial commonalities:
1. They each have a populist appeal in their countries, which is to say they are supported by their nation’s Great Unwashed
2. They each are despised and feared by leftists and elites

Le Pen is not the French President, nor in a position to be held responsible for the conditions and policies of France. Similarly, the AfD is not Germany's largest political party; it's not even its second largest. The AfD is third in size and has only been so since 2017 when it won 12.6% of the votes in the Bundestag as compared to the 53% held by the CDU/CSU, and SPD parties. Matteo Salvini holds more power in Italy than Le Pen does in France, but he is neither the President nor the Prime Minister. He is the Deputy PM and Minister of the Interior and didn't assume these offices until June of this year. Jair Bolsonaro only just won his election and won't be taking office until January of 2019.

Of the six serpents in the garden, Viktor Orban, the Prime Minister of Hungary has been in power the longest. He was PM for four years beginning in 1998 during which time Hungary became a member of NATO. The voters turned his party, Fidesz, and him out of power in 2002 (without requiring a revolution BTW) and after the Socialist Party mucked up the country for eight years Fidesz and Orban were returned to power in 2010 and retaining a supermajority in the 2014 and 2018 elections.

Rather than using power to destroy leftwing utopias, each of these individuals, and the AfD, have gained what power they have by virtue of the fact that a sufficient number of the voters in their countries believed that while their leftwing opponents were in power, the Garden began to wither.

As for the American serpent, Donald Trump, the cartoonist and his admirers obviously wish to deny or ignore that he has made good on more campaign promises than any American president in a very long time and that there are a great many indicators that the US is in better shape on a number of fronts than it was while Obama was president. There's no indication that any Americans who might have been seduced by the reptilian Trump feel as though they have been played. Those who voted for him are pretty happy with his performance thus far and if he speaks with a forked tongue now and again, it hasn't led to widespread disenchantment among his supporters. Despite hyperbolic claims that he is an autocrat and even a fascist, his hysterical critics are unable to point to any evidence that this is actually the case other than the fact that they despise him.

I listen to and read the opinions and harangues of progressives in this forum and elsewhere and I hear and see people engaged in a religious war. Why are these rightwing populists vile serpents? Because they do not abide by progressive dogma!

Take immigration for example. Generally speaking, the six serpents share a common position on this matter (One, BTW, that has been a major reason for why they have their power). They want less immigration, they want more cultural assimilation, and they want immigrants to abide by the laws of their nation. It’s perfectly reasonable to have differing views on the value of immigration and assimilation and on the limits and restrictions placed on legal immigration, but it should go without saying that it’s not reasonable to define those who disagree with you on these matters as evil. For a great many progressives there is only one permissible position on immigration… theirs. If you disagree you are not simply misinformed or wrong, you are bad. It doesn’t matter how well you defend your position, you are lying when you say that immigration can be problematic and even, in some cases, harmful to the nation and its people. Your real reason is that you hate brown people or Muslims, or those who wear different clothes than you or speak a different language.

To progressives, the facts that each of these serpents has gained power through fair and democratic elections only means that a) The elections were somehow rigged in the serpents’ favor and/or b) These nations are filled with deplorable people as evil as the serpents they support. There are times though when a progressive is not comfortable calling huge swathes of people evil and then they switch to a characterization of them as ignorant suckers, seduced and duped by the serpents. You might think that an ideology that holds that a utopian society is possible would have more faith in the basic goodness of people, but you would be wrong. Progressives believe utopia can only be created in spite of the base nature and stupidity of so many of a nation’s citizens, and only if those they deem elite enough are allowed to construct it according to their very detailed and rigid blueprint and plans. Like wayward children, the citizenry is not capable of building a just and prosperous society without firm parental direction. Without the firm hand of those who, alone, truly understand what is good and what is evil to govern them, the ignorance and/ or propensity for evil of the people will inevitably lead instead to the dystopias they see in Hungary and the US and predict for Italy and Brazil. The progressives, having gorged themselves on the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil must hold the original serpent in high esteem for blessing them with the knowledge that the people can neither understand nor accept on their own.

It truly is ironic that the people who can only build their utopias with tyranny both soft and hard, instantly resort to condemning those who oppose them as autocratic.

If you believe your opponents are evil then you are not engaged in a conflict of ideas, you are fighting a Holy War. No sane or decent person tries to reason with monsters. You can’t debate them, you can only destroy them, and inevitably those who are being defined as evil monsters realize that there is nothing they can do to establish their decency or humanity in the eyes of the jihadi except recant and abandon their positions and beliefs; getting in step with the progressive dogma. This, of course, leads to even more animus and tension.

Thankfully, we are not yet at the point of no return, and there remain a great many people with progressive ideals who refuse to accept that those on the other side of the spectrum from them are evil enemies, but we are very close and, sadly, our march towards it is accelerating. When every tragedy, natural or manmade, is used to demonstrate the evil in the hearts of political opponents, and every event and circumstance in our society is weaponized for use against the Enemy we are all sitting on a keg of black powder attached to which is a burning fuse.

One could take a different approach to the cartoon and suggest that the serpents are providing Adam & Eve with a gift from the Tree of Knowledge; revealing the sinister nature of their failing Utopias. It should be clear though that regardless of what the people in these countries want, the Progressive Elite is not about to sit back and let them simply have it.
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revelette1
 
  2  
Tue 30 Oct, 2018 02:58 pm
Quote:
Special counsel Robert Mueller has asked the FBI to investigate an alleged scheme to manufacture sexual assault stories about him.

At issue is an email widely circulated this month among journalists from someone who claimed she’d been approached with an offer to pay her tens of thousands of dollars if she’d answer questions about Mueller and then sign a sworn affidavit accusing him of sexual misconduct and workplace harassment.

“When we learned last week of allegations that women were offered money to make false claims about the Special Counsel, we immediately referred the matter to the FBI for investigation,” Mueller spokesman Peter Carr said in an email.

The person, who identified herself to POLITICO and other news organizations as Lorraine D. Parsons of Fort Myers, Fla., said she worked with Mueller in 1974 when she was a paralegal at the law firm Pillsbury, Madison and Sutro.

In her email, which POLITICO could not independently confirm, Parsons said a man named Bill Christensen contacted her by phone to inquire about Mueller.

“I'm not sure how he knew that I ever worked there or worked with Robert Mueller. I reluctantly told Mr. Christensen that I had only worked with Mr. Mueller for a short period of time, before leaving that firm to have my first son,” she wrote in her email.

Parsons said Christensen “then changed his tone, and mentioned that he might be able to help me pay off some debt. He knew exactly how much credit card debt I had, right down to the dollar, which sort of freaked me out.”

The woman said she told Christensen she wasn’t interested in his offer and hung up on him. But she said he called back two days later offering to pay off $34,000 in credit card debt and also write her a $20,000 check if she made the allegations against Mueller.

In her email, which POLITICO could not independently confirm, Parsons said a man named Bill Christensen contacted her by phone to inquire about Mueller.

“I'm not sure how he knew that I ever worked there or worked with Robert Mueller. I reluctantly told Mr. Christensen that I had only worked with Mr. Mueller for a short period of time, before leaving that firm to have my first son,” she wrote in her email.

Parsons said Christensen “then changed his tone, and mentioned that he might be able to help me pay off some debt. He knew exactly how much credit card debt I had, right down to the dollar, which sort of freaked me out.”

The woman said she told Christensen she wasn’t interested in his offer and hung up on him. But she said he called back two days later offering to pay off $34,000 in credit card debt and also write her a $20,000 check if she made the allegations against Mueller.

Burkman said in a Facebook video posted Tuesday that he is planning a press conference at “high noon” on Thursday in Arlington, Va., to “unveil the first of the sexual assault victims of Robert Mueller."
But in a phone interview, Burkman insisted he had nothing to do with Parsons’ story.
“We never paid anyone. This woman named Lorraine Parsons, I don’t know who it is. I’ve never heard of her,” he said. “I’m not sure a Lorraine Parsons exists.”

Burkman is a Virginia-based Republican lobbyist with ties to the Mueller probe and other aspects of the 2016 presidential election. Last year, he organized a legal defense fund for Rick Gates after Mueller indicted the former Trump campaign deputy on charges of money laundering and failing to register as an agent of a foreign government.

A federal judge rebuked Gates for violating a gag order after he appeared in a video thanking donors who gave to the fund.

Burkman earlier this year also said he was shot and run over by a car while conducting his own investigation into the murder of Seth Rich, the Democratic National Committee staffer who is at the center of a conspiracy theory that he played a role in the release of hacked emails from Hillary Clinton's campaign that WikiLeaks posted online during the 2016 presidential election.



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