192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 10:23 am
@hightor,
I am guilty of posting information or articles from completely left wing sites, most from think progress. I do think they are more credible than other of similar type because usually they give the source of their claims. Sometimes it is circular however, but most of the times it is not. The reason I do is because their agenda or I guess what the issues they find important I do as well. Informed Comment by Juan Cole is another I really like because of his views and information he has about the middle east and the environment and other such issues. He really has studied for years on the subject of the middle east. However, I also read a lot of straight news sources which I imagine some would consider biased as well.
hightor
 
  4  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 11:02 am
@revelette1,
Quote:
I am guilty of posting information or articles from completely left wing sites, most from think progress.

And I post a lot of stories from the center-left New York Times, assuming that most people can evaluate the information and come to their own conclusions. I've found Lazere to be pertinent to these sorts of discussions.
Donald Lazere wrote:
The next point to be made is that every ideology-political, religious, etc.-is predisposed toward its own distinct pattern of rhetoric that its conscious or unconscious partisans tend to follow on virtually any subject they are reading, writing, or speaking about. Critical readers need to learn to identify and understand the various ideologies apt to be found in current sources of information. Having done so, they can then to a large extent anticipate what underlying assumptions, lines of argument, rhetorical strategies, logical fallacies, and modes of semantic slanting to watch for in any partisan source.

This is not to say that partisan sources should be shunned. Indeed, a clear- cut, well-supported expression of a partisan position can be more valuable than a blandly non-partisan one. Nor does partisanship in a source necessarily go along with biased or deceptive reasoning. One must judge a partisan argument on the basis of how fully and fairly it represents the opposing position and demonstrates why its own is more reasonable.

Teaching the Political Conflicts: A Rhetorical Schema
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 11:05 am
More from Lazere:

Quote:
One reason American political discourse has sunk to its present dismal level is that few students in either K-12 or college take basic courses that teach them to analyze political rhetoric critically and engage in it intelligently themselves. Unfortunately, the discipline that has the most potential for teaching this subject, my own of English composition, has not been widely identified with the mission but has been reduced to the common conception of those who, on meeting an English professor, groan, “Oh oh, I better watch my grammar.”

Worse yet, composition itself has become yet another victim of partisan polarization and invective, as conservative culture warriors have turned their guns against college writing courses as hotbeds of liberal bias. One of the better-informed conservative critics, Heather MacDonald, wrote several years ago in the National Interest:

The only thing composition teachers are not talking and writing about these days is how to teach students to compose clear, logical prose . . . . Composition has abandoned correctness because grammatical errors signify the author is politically engaged.

Snarky charges like MacDonald’s contain a grain of truth and raise valid questions about the ill-defined identity of college writing courses, though such charges tend to be overblown and simplistic. Her last sentence may be true of some crude-minded teachers, but a more sensible notion is that intellectual engagement in debating current political and social issues is a more mature aim for student writers than just grammatical correctness — although the two can and should be taught together.

I do agree that many students at most American colleges have not learned how to write clearly and coherently, or for that matter to read at the level of liberal education or serious journalism — one consequence of which, I argue, is widespread political illiteracy. Politics aside, though, this problem stems largely from inadequate instruction in K-12 education, even in privileged schools, back to what used to be called “Grammar School,” as well as from the frequent failure of other academic disciplines to foster good student (or faculty!) writing.

Support for this point came from the surprising source of Jacques Derrida, the late French guru of arcane deconstructionist theory, who in an interview in the Journal of Advanced Composition disapproved of his ideas being applied to basic levels of education and affirmed that instruction in clear, correct writing in all academic fields was standard practice in European K-12 and college education, eliminating the need for college writing courses altogether.

To clarify one source of confusion here, the main divisions in modern college English are literature, composition, and creative writing (which I won’t discuss here). Both literature and composition are taught at different undergraduate levels, with the lower levels typically being general education-and-breadth requirements for students in majors other than English. One reason to clarify this point is that when conservatives ridicule literature or composition courses with outlandish-sounding titles or heavily political content, they often neglect to verify whether these courses are basic ones required for GE&B or, as is more often the case, upper-division electives mainly for English majors. Such courses are still fair game for criticism, but many critics are too quick to assume that students are forced into them. Criticism is also best undertaken on an informed, individual course basis, not through hearsay evidence and cherry-picked generalizations. In my judgment, fair evaluation of such courses reveals about the same range from worthless to superb as in any other segment of the curriculum.

Another source of confusion about college composition, largely within the discipline itself, is the nationwide failure to articulate a clear sequence of writing courses and what each should address, from Basic Writing (the course formerly known as Remedial Writing or “Bonehead English”), to First-Year Writing (the course formerly known as Freshman English), typically an inadequate, one-term catch-all, to more advanced courses in critical thinking (also known as informal logic), argumentative rhetoric, and evaluating research resources and other informational reading.

Ideally, required college study in English should begin with these “advanced” topics, which provide a vital introduction to all further college education and to critical citizenship beyond college. This could only come about through vastly increasing opportunity in college preparation for students of all socioeconomic or cultural backgrounds, but we have been going in the opposite direction, in which budget cuts for K-12 and soaring college tuition are destroying such opportunity.

I pose a dilemma in all earnestness to conservatives and liberals alike: If K-12 schools have failed to prepare students for college-level reading and writing, should it be the responsibility of English Ph.D’s to teach at a grammar-school level or to uphold the standards of higher education? One wholly misbegotten way out of this dilemma has been staffing of introductory writing courses not by professors but by grad students and adjuncts in assembly-line multiversities who are often under-paid, under-prepared, and over-worked, with no guaranteed continuity of employment and with no consistent guidelines for course goals. (Many small liberal arts colleges do have a tradition of professors teaching composition, integrated with academic study, as it should be.)

This pernicious trend has been compounded by decades of budget cuts for public higher education, which almost always are applied to reducing funds for teaching at the lower levels of instruction like first-year- composition, not the higher ones of specialized scholarship and research, let alone that of the lavishly paid administrators who dictate where cuts will fall.

In historical perspective, our current model of college composition only developed in the twentieth century. Prior to that, going back to ancient Greece and Rome, study of composition was incorporated into the discipline of rhetoric (sometimes called “Rhetoric and Moral Philosophy”), centered in study of reasoning, argumentation, and debate—preeminently about politics. In an important article, “From Rhetoric to Composition: The Teaching of Writing in America to 1900,” educational historian Michael Halloran affirmed that the goal of the rhetorical curriculum was “to address students as political beings, as members of a body politic in which they have a responsibility to form judgments and influence the judgment of others on public issues.” Halloran cites a list of questions provided by professors for student debate in the leading colleges at the time of the Revolution, such as, “Is an absolute and arbitrary monarchy contrary to right reason?” That and similarly loaded questions must have provoked Royalist conservatives to scream about left-wing faculty bias.

So if we are to restore argumentative rhetoric to its traditional place in English studies, shouldn’t we foster clear and logical (as well as grammatical) prose in students’ writing about political controversies and teach them to criticize abuses of clear language or logic by politicians and the media? If students expressing their political opinions in papers or class discussion display factual ignorance, lack of evidence, illogical or prejudiced reasoning, shouldn’t they be corrected — in the sense of logical and factual, not political, correctness? (A common instance of illogical causal analysis is white students’ papers that blame blacks solely for their current problems of poverty and crime, in ignorance of the unbroken historical chain of evasion of responsibility by white society from slavery to the present.)

In sum, politics has a perfectly legitimate role in college writing courses, not through excluding complementary study of grammar and clear, logical prose, or through being imposed in a one-sided manner by doctrinaire teachers (which does too often occur), but as the subject of even-handed rhetorical study and debate. TheCommon Core State Standards in 2010 (which were otherwise flawed in many ways) bravely gave primacy to instruction to “demonstrate the cogent reasoning and use of evidence that is essential to . . . responsible citizenship in a democratic republic.” No discipline is better suited, and positioned in required courses, to fulfill that mission than composition.

Faulty reasoning of course occurs on both the political (and student) left and right, although in my three decades teaching in conservative locales, it was most blatant in students parroting conservative dogmas from Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter. I regularly assigned Limbaugh’s books as subjects for fact-checking and study of coherent reasoning; even most hardcore “dittoheads” quickly learned to look elsewhere for substantial conservative sources. I cherished those conservative students who based their views on serious study and were able to engage with liberal ideas on a reasoned level; many of them said in anonymous evaluations that my course was one of their favorites because I challenged them—as well as liberals–to support and refine their views against opposing ones and graded them “up” for skill in doing so.

However, some conservatives were unable or unwilling to submit their beliefs to extensive contrast with opposing viewpoints, and just interpreted my insistence that they do so as imposition of “liberal PC.” Such responses have led me to wonder how many of the complaints trumpeted by conservatives about faculty bias might stem from students (or their parents or political pundits) who simply do not understand the traditional, Socratic mission of college education and of humanistic philosophy, to submit dogmatic beliefs and cultural assumptions to critical questioning. Many conservative organizations have forthrightly opposed education that asks students to question parental, religious, and other authority. Many liberals can be equally dogmatic in practice, and should be called on this inconsistency.

Why is our political discourse so lousy?
revelette1
 
  7  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 11:40 am
@hightor,
It's heavy reading. I understand it, however the whole subject matter is out my experience. I graduated in the middle of my 12th grade year, got married and had a baby and from then on, never really worked outside the home. To get just a little bit more personal, to explain why it seems sometimes I don't know as much as most of the others around in A2k, my dad worked as a postmaster in the Postal service. In and around mostly the Indiana/Kentucky tri-state area, we moved around a lot in order for him to advance. Moreover, I had a hearing problem that wasn't really addressed in school. So, I was kind of introverted and didn't always catch on to everything around me. Grades would be decent in one school, terrible in another. In any event, like I said, I did manage to graduate at seventeen but I would probably would have had a struggle going to college. Chances are I would have had to take one of those boneheaded English courses. lol. But interesting reading nonetheless.
maporsche
 
  5  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 11:59 am
@revelette1,
A WILLINGNESS to learn is all that really matters Rev.

Plus you can get by better than most by just being a decent, caring, unselfish person.
Walter Hinteler
 
  6  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 12:55 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/bXFRBSHl.jpg


Steyer, who was targeted by one of more than a dozen pipe bombs sent to prominent critics of the president, responded to Trump's tweet

Quote:
https://i.imgur.com/Xj9gQrVl.jpg
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 01:48 pm
@revelette1,
You don't have any problems processing or understanding new information. I'm sure you'd do very well.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 04:05 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Trump’s own incitements to violence

Why no mention of Maxine Waters and Cory Booker inciting violence?
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 04:19 pm
Quote:
Why Higher Education Should Have a Leftist Bias

Quote:
Presenting a thoughtful justification for the left in American education, Donald Lazere argues that to teach students rhetoric and critical thinking, key components of a humanist education, educators must discuss and teach students to grapple with the conservative bias in academia, the media, and politics that is considered to be the status quo.

What world does this loser live in?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -3  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 11:33 pm
@nimh,
Quote:
So as unfortunate as (IMO) the Austrian approach is...


Why do you feel it is unfortunate and what precisely do you mean by that term? Also, what do you mean by the Austrian approach?

I don't mean to quibble or make more of your choice of words than is warranted, but I am trying to get a better idea of what you think about the matter in the context of its effect on Europe. Turnabout is fair play and so I will explain that by matter I mean the imposition of laws that restrict free speech and specifically speech that is deemed to hurt religious feelings.

Again, I've no intention of being argumentative. Your choice of unfortunate may not have occupied your thoughts for more than a nanosecond which would be perfectly understandable, but if you were quite deliberate in your selection than it would seem that you are of the opinion that there is more at stake here than this specific case.

It would be difficult, at best, to argue that the Court's ruling has had an immediate impact beyond this case in particular and Austria's law more generally. It is clear that this ruling does not expand the Austrian approach beyond its borders, nor require any other state to amend or add to its own laws regarding speech, but unless the concept of precedent doesn't exist in European jurisprudence it could have some future impact on cases involving other member states. The precedent might simply be that the Courts will tend towards honoring the right of each member to address the matter as they deem appropriate, but my (admittedly limited) understanding of the case and the ruling is that the Court could have found the Austrian approach in violation of the individual's rights. In one of your links, I read that the Court considered the relatively minimal degree of punishment meted out in its ruling. Presumably, this means that if the Austrian government had sentenced the woman to a long (or even short) prison term the Court might have ruled the approach went too far. If so then there is a limit to the Court's deference to national sovereignty.

(I have a problem with the idea that the degree of punishment should be considered in evaluating someone's right to free speech, but this may be due to my very strong - and very American - belief in the importance of this right. Any legal consequence imposed by the government will have a chilling effect on speech. While I don't know this to be a certain fact, I imagine that if this woman persists in making statements like the one that caused her to run afoul of the law, the punishment could and likely would be increased in order to stop her.)

If the Court is not strictly bound from intruding upon member state sovereignty as respects the application of existing laws, would it not be similarly free to intrude by requiring the creation of laws? Again, my ignorance of the underlying facts may be leading me down a dead-end road, but could the roles have been effectively reversed? In other words could a woman making statements deemed to be offensive by a religious body or cleric find herself embroiled in a legal matter before this Court even if the state in which she resided had no law prohibiting such speech? Or in a scenario that I suppose would be more likely, could the government of a member state find itself before this Court defending its right to not have a law prohibiting this speech?

If the Austrian Approach is inauspicious or unlucky (i.e. unfortunate) it would be so in terms of future events or circumstances. The term almost implies another shoe dropping. So, if your choice was quite deliberate, what such event or set of circumstances causes you concern or fear?

From what little I have read or heard about the ruling there are folks in Europe who are not as sanguine about the reach of its impact as the gentlemen you've cited, and they are not all rabble-rousing Islamaphobes. I get the impression that while there may indeed be those who wish to exaggerate the impact of the ruling to advance political/ideological positions there are also those who seek to minimize it for the same reason.

As I've indicated more than once, I don't want to read more into your word usage than is intended. Someone living in Austria or Europe who shares my evaluation of the right to free speech might describe the Austrian Approach as "unfortunate" simply because they disagree with it, but they might also view it as such for its possible impact on all of Europe; in which case they would likely view this ruling as unfortunate as well.

The critics of the ruling seem to all be critics of the Austrian Approach as well. Perhaps it is not necessarily the case in reverse, but I am interested in understanding how this might be so.

Finally, the fact that the religion involved in this case is Islam clearly lent to its notoriety and, as you are probably more aware than I am, critics argue that if the religion had been Christianity there would be no ruling because there would have been no underlying case: a) European Christians are not remotely as prickly about blasphemy as Muslims, and b) European governments are not remotely as concerned about the religious feelings of Christians as they are about Muslim religious feelings.

What do you think of this; both "a" and "b"?

Have there been cases in Austria (or anywhere in Europe) where people have gotten in trouble with their governments because of statements made about Christianity (or any religion other than Islam for that matter)? If so, can you give me an idea of how they compare in frequency and severity in terms of those involving Islam?

Do European governments, in general (I realize I am attempting to lump them all together in a way that might neither be fair or accurate) consider the "religious feelings" of Muslims differently than those of members of other faiths? If so why might this be the case?

While it might (fairly or unfairly) invite accusations of appeasement if it were true, I can imagine European officials, on a practical level, fearing the hurt feelings of Muslims more than those of Buddhists, Taoists or Christians. It might, indeed, not be true, but if it isn't, it wouldn't be because European politicians and bureaucrats are significantly more enlightened than their counterparts throughout the rest of the world, but because there is no evidence of a disparity in this regard among practitioners of religion in Europe (or the cultural impact of being seen as insensitive to one or others) or they all have their heads farther up their asses than do their counterparts around the globe. Neither of these seems credible to me though.

Thanks in advance. If you care not to respond in detail or at all, that's fine and if you can point me to sources that might provide me with answers, that will be appreciated.





Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 11:49 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I don't know what nimh thinks.

But generally: the court has jurisdiction to decide complaints ("applications") submitted by individuals and states concerning violations of the European Convention on Human Rights, which principally concerns only civil and political rights. It cannot take up a case on its own initiative.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  6  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 11:51 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote Finn:
Quote:
Again, my ignorance of the underlying facts may be leading me down a dead-end road

But that didn't stop you from posting over 1,000 words criticizing the European court's decision. Oh that's right, it's Muslims, we can just throw caution to the winds on that.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Sun 28 Oct, 2018 11:57 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Do European governments, in general (I realize I am attempting to lump them all together in a way that might neither be fair or accurate) consider the "religious feelings" of Muslims differently than those of members of other faiths? If so why might this be the case?
I don't think that a complete list exists from the various laws from Russia to Iceland. But I could imagine that there are some or some more differences e.g. comparing the laws in Turkey to those in Andorra.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Mon 29 Oct, 2018 12:15 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Have there been cases in Austria (or anywhere in Europe) where people have gotten in trouble with their governments because of statements made about Christianity (or any religion other than Islam for that matter)? If so, can you give me an idea of how they compare in frequency and severity in terms of those involving Islam?
There are 50 sovereign states plus 6 with limited recognition in Europe, 47 being members of the Council of Europe.
Turkey is a good example, as is Spain and until yesterday Ireland. And the Holy See.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 29 Oct, 2018 12:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
There have been hundreds of cases (actually 2,628) at the European Court of Human Rights related to "religion".
I'm not sure if these will answer your question(s), if you can look through them yourself - perhaps narrowing the search will give a smaller amount to read.

NB: the membership of states of the Council of Europe over the periods: not all European countries were members all the times!
Walter Hinteler
 
  6  
Mon 29 Oct, 2018 01:04 am
@Walter Hinteler,
And coming back to Trump:
Czechoslovakia ramped up spying on Trump in late 1980s, seeking US intel
Quote:
Aided by Ivana Trump’s father, intelligence service with KGB ties targeted high-level government information, files show

he communist intelligence service in Prague stepped up its spying campaign against Donald Trump in the late 1980s, targeting him to gain information about the “upper echelons of the US government”, archive files and testimony from former cold war spies reveal.

Czechoslovakia’s Státní bezpečnost (StB) carried out a long-term spying mission against Trump following his marriage in 1977 to his first wife, Ivana Zelníčková. The operation was run out of Zlín, the provincial town in south-west Czechoslovakia where Zelníčková was born and grew up.

Ivana’s father, Miloš Zelníček, gave regular information to the local StB office about his daughter’s visits from the US and on his celebrity son-in-law’s career in New York. Zelníček was classified as a “conspiratorial” informer. His relationship with the StB lasted until the end of the communist regime.

New archive records obtained by the Guardian and the Czech magazine Respekt show the StB’s growing interest in Trump after the 1988 US presidential election, won by George HW Bush. The StB’s first directorate responsible for foreign espionage sought to “deepen” its Trump-related activity.

... ... ...


https://i.imgur.com/h3YqC2A.jpg
The StB security file of Jaroslav Jansa, who reported on Trump in the 1980s while he was married to Ivana. Photograph: StB
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 29 Oct, 2018 06:09 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
I will explain that by matter I mean the imposition of laws that restrict free speech and specifically speech that is deemed to hurt religious feelings.
Article 188 of the AustrianCriminal Code is part of section 8 of the AustrianCriminal Code, which, inter alia, lists criminally punishable offences against religious peace ("Strafbare Handlungen gegen den religiösen Frieden").
Quote:
Article 283 – Incitement to hatred

1. Whoever, in a manner capable of endangering public order, publicly incites to commit a hostile act against a church or religious community established within the country or against a group defined by its belonging to such a church or religious community, a race, a nation, a tribe or a state, shall be liable to up to two years’ imprisonment.

2. Similarly, whoever publicly incites against a group defined in paragraph 1 or tries to insult or disparage them in a manner violating human dignity shall equally be held liable.


Article 283 of the Austrian Criminal Code as in force at the relevant time read as follows:
Quote:
Article 283 – Incitement to hatred

1. Whoever, in a manner capable of endangering public order, publicly incites to commit a hostile act against a church or religious community established within the country or against a group defined by its belonging to such a church or religious community, a race, a nation, a tribe or a state, shall be liable to up to two years’ imprisonment.

2. Similarly, whoever publicly incites against a group defined in paragraph 1 or tries to insult or disparage them in a manner violating human dignity shall equally be held liable.


Obviously these laws are in accord with the Austrian Constitution - there are no (at least I couldn't find any) judicial reviews of the constitutionality of these laws. (Besides that, such wasn't part of E.S.'s complaint.)

The Human Rights Court naturally didn't only look at the relevant domestic law but used "international material" as well.


All that is online, in the ruling.
The ruling, which was about
Quote:
The applicant alleged that her criminal conviction for disparaging religious doctrines had given rise to a violation of Article 10 of the Convention

0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Mon 29 Oct, 2018 07:06 am
As an aside, thanks for the kind words.

Speaking of respecting all religions:

Thousands flock to vigil for Pittsburgh synagogue shooting


There is too much good to quote. All the speeches or words the religious leaders had to say was uplifting and badly needed at this time.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 29 Oct, 2018 07:06 am
Part of a much longer article.

Quote:
Accessing abortion has become increasingly difficult in parts of the US. As a result, a growing number of reproductive rights activists say it is time American women learn the facts about "self-managing abortion" with pills.

Kate could tell something was wrong. She'd been feeling nauseous for days and her body just felt different. The 27-year-old massage school student and her boyfriend were supposed to leave on a short road trip together, but before they hit the highway, she asked him to drive to a local drugstore.

Kate, which is not her real name, bought a pregnancy test and took it in the store bathroom. It was positive.

"I probably lost all my colour," she recalls. "I was pretty devastated."

Over the six-hour drive that followed, the young couple wrestled with the decision in front of them - to become parents or not. Kate was open to the idea, but as a full-time student doing odd jobs on the side to make ends meet, she was also broke. Her boyfriend told her he wasn't ready to become a father.

"I struggle putting food on the table and I'm in debt," she says. "I just didn't see how I could justify putting a kid in that situation."

The nearest abortion clinic was hours away, and the attendant who answered the phone told her that because she was less than 10 weeks along, she could terminate the pregnancy with pills - one dose of the drug mifepristone to take at the clinic, and a second medication, misoprostol, to take at home.

She was also told it would cost nearly $800. Kate was shocked.

"It would have taken everything I have. I don't know how I would have paid rent."

So she did what thousands of women around the globe do every year - she decided to try to have an abortion on her own.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45970356
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Mon 29 Oct, 2018 09:02 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
point me to sources that might provide me with answers, that will be appreciated.
A lot of your questions can easily be answered by yourself, after reading:
European Court of Human Rights - Questions & Answers


The attitudes of people in central and eastern European countries towards minorities, religion and social issues such as gay rights and abortion differ significantly from those in western Europe.
Perhaps a recent poll report by the Pew research Center will also help to get you updated, Finn:
Eastern and Western Europeans Differ on Importance of Religion, Views of Minorities, and Key Social Issues
 

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