192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
georgeob1
 
  -4  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 01:51 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

Orwellian "newspeak", "big lie" propaganda, and polarization through "red meat issues" are the tools of tyrants. The "uneducated" supporters, whom tyrants "love", lack the basic education and critical thinking skills necessary to know they are being used and victimized.


And Debra wants the "uneducated supporters" of supposed Tyrants she doesn't favor to surrender contril of their lives to, presumably well educated wise men (like Dr. Johanathan Gruber of ACA ill fame), who, as intellectually elite tyrants, can rule over their lives.
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 01:57 pm
@georgeob1,
No. She doesn't want people surrendering control of their lives to people that lie to them, like Donald Trump, whose whole campaign was lies.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:01 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

we have never fully processed a lesson of history: that great civilizations almost invariably collapse from within.


Civilization is COLLAPSING, I tellya!

Chicken Little has already told us the same thing, but without the fancy-ass big words: "The sky is falling!"
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:04 pm
The guy does have a point though. The collapse of any given civilization is generally preceded by an abandonment of the values that made it great in the first place in favor of the candyass values of the cheese-eaters.
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:07 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
intellectually elite

You do toss that phrase around a lot george. In between your recommendations that a proper education includes attending to Machiavelli, Cicero and Thucidides.
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:11 pm
@layman,
You don't know much about history, do you? That's probably the most simplistic, and non-evidentiary, idea about the collapse of civilizations I've ever heard
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:12 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

You're speaking of the Politifact "lie of the year" award. They said:
Quote:
"Obama's ideas on health care were first offered as general outlines then grew into specific legislation over the course of his presidency. Yet Obama never adjusted his rhetoric to give people a more accurate sense of the law's real-world repercussions, even as fact-checkers flagged his statements as exaggerated at best.
And as we know, he apologized for this. Do you predict Trump will admit he got something wrong and apologize?

And let's recall that the subsequent lie of the year was awarded to "Obamacare is a government takeover of healthcare". Are you going to join them in that
one?


Perhaps Obama was offering his descriptions of his healthcare system as a "general outline" however it didn't appear that way in his oft repeated and very emphatic assurances about keeping your present plan & doctor. In addition the other provisions in the law, and actions of the bureaucracy administering the program to consolidate medical practices, hospitals and other service providers, as well as issue mandates effectively wiping out numerous insurance programs were themselves a direct assault on the very promises Obama made.

I don't know what constitutes the "politifact lie of the year" , and frankly I don't either care or accept its presumed authority in the matter.

As to the "takeover of healthcare " bit , (1) it isn't relevant to the question at hand, and (2) I made no such assertion. It is however the takeover of a major segment of the health insurance market, pervasive in its effects of all the rest of the health care insustry, and an unsustainable financial & bureaucratic failure for the industry.
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:12 pm
@MontereyJack,
layman doesn't provide good or factual information, and reading his posts is a waste of time. I'm not sure why people even play patsies with him.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
layman doesn't provide good or factual information,

This coming from the guy who only posts opinion pieces.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -1  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:23 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

You don't know much about history, do you? That's probably the most simplistic, and non-evidentiary, idea about the collapse of civilizations I've ever heard


Well, Monny, maybe you aint heard much, eh? Maybe you were busy listening to rap music.

Quote:
Fall of the Roman Empire

There were several reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire. Each one intertweaved with the other. Many even blame the initiation of Christianity for the decline. Christianity made many Roman citizens into pacifists, making it more difficult to defend against the barbarian attackers. Also money used to build churches could have been used to maintain the Roman empire.

Decline in Morals and Values
Even during PaxRomana (A long period from Augstus to Marcus Aurelius when the Roman empire was stable and relativly peaceful) there were 32,000 prostitutes in Rome. Emperors like Caligula and Nero became infamous for wasting money on lavish parties where guests drank and ate until they became sick.

Political Corruption
One of the most difficult problems was choosing a new emperor. Unlike Greece where transition may not have been smooth but was at least consistent, the Romans never created an effective system to determine how new emperors would be selected. The choice was always open to debate between the old emperor, the Senate, the Praetorian Guard (the emperor's's private army), and the army.


http://www.rome.info/history/empire/fall/
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:26 pm
@georgeob1,
Do please try to get real, george. You immediately jumped to that quote because the right wing media universe you attend to was absolutely awash in it for years (and as you demonstrate, still is). The Politifact award came as something of a godsend to this same media universe which trumpeted it broadly and loudly.

ps... you ought to attend to that piece I linked earlier (that I described as "tough". He quotes Thucydides all over the place.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:29 pm
@layman,
None of which had anything to do with "candyass values of the cheese-eaters" which you seem to use as a totally biased term for liberal values, unless of course you're going to include Christian values as that . I can probably give you chapter and verse on the collapse of ten civilizations to your one.
layman
 
  -3  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:32 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

None of which had anything to do with "candyass values of the cheese-eaters" which you seem to use as a totally biased term for liberal values, unless of course you're going to include Christian values as that


"Turn the other cheek" is perhaps the most candyass, cheese-eating notion I have ever heard.

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:38 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
"candyass values of the cheese-eaters"

Anyone who'd use such a phrase can be profitably ignored, MJ
layman
 
  -2  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:40 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
"candyass values of the cheese-eaters"

Anyone who'd use such a phrase can be profitably ignored, MJ


Heh, spoken like a hard-core, dedicated cheese-eater, sho nuff, Blathy.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:43 pm
@blatham,
And he is - ignored.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 02:48 pm

Quote:
"I, Donald Trump, am now the new sole owner of Monday Night Raw," he said in 2009. "I'm going to do stuff that's never been done before, that's never been seen before."

...When he entered the WWE Hall of Fame, he strutted into the ceremony in a black bow tie, with two women on his arms wearing blazing-red dresses. "Money, money, money, money" was on the speakers, and dollar bills lit up behind a screen. He crowed about the "Battle of the Billionaires" and said "it has the ratings, and the highest pay-per-view of wrestling of any kind."

"Next year, I will challenge Vince to a fight, and I will kick his ass if he wants," Trump said in the Hall of Fame speech. His entire family sat in the front row dressed impeccably and smiling, just like they did during the campaign.

Donald Trump, wrestler "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and Vince McMahon attend the press conference held by Battle of the Billionaires to announce the details of Wrestlemania 23 at Trump Tower.

And even though he received some boos from the Madison Square Garden crowd during his induction speech, Trump reveled in the attention.

“Sorry losers and haters, but I LOVED the great energy in Madison Square Garden during my speech. The WWE thought it was incredible - it was!” Trump tweeted the next morning at 6:25 a.m.
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-wrestlemania-fake-233615

Sound familiar?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 03:09 pm
Smart observation from Josh Marshall
Quote:
Trump's one true gift is his ability to get his critics to surrender up their own dignity somehow of their own free will. That is just what he is trying to do to the press at this moment. It's no different from the dominance politics he played on his opponents in the GOP primaries.

...Trump is a punk and a bully. People who don't surrender up their dignity to him unhinge him.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-case-for-not-being-crybabies

Trump may somehow grasp that dignity is something he does not have (and he possibly doesn't have the capacity to understand the term). The quest for celebrity and his dominance urge may well be compensatory. Stabbing in the dark here but something close to that looks pretty damned likely.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 03:12 pm
@blatham,
His ego is too big to acknowledge his ignorance on many subjects.
His tariffs will kill jobs; ask any expert economist.
http://marketmadhouse.com/trumps-job-killing-trade-policies-will-hurt-average-americans/
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  3  
Mon 16 Jan, 2017 03:13 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Assuming your data is correct and a reliable indicator, then perhaps what we need is more competition and less government involvement. If the insurance costs $ 10K/year for each individual, then the cost for 360 million Americans will be 3,6 x 10 E 12 or $3.6 thousand billion/year. A large strain on the national debt. Alternatively we could nationalize the service and ration care for everyone, Perhaps that is what you are suggesting. I believe we can do much better than that, with some new insurance law that will enhancew the free market.


It's not $10 K a year per person. It is more for us because of our age. Private insurance companies in the "free market" won't insure customers who no longer have the financial resources to pay the monthly insurance bill. When people get too sick and rendered unable to pay, they qualify for public assistance. How does "free enterprise" make necessary healthcare more affordable? It doesn't. It bails on you when you need it the most.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.43 seconds on 05/19/2024 at 02:11:57