192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
firefly
 
  4  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 08:51 pm
Fact-checking Trump on immigration, family separations
By Tal Kopan, CNN
Updated 4:25 PM ET, Tue June 19, 2018

Washington (CNN) — President Donald Trump on Tuesday delivered a stream-of-consciousness-style speech on immigration as furor over his administration's separation of families at the border reaches a fever pitch.

But his speech at a small business event in Washington contained several factual inaccuracies.

Here is what Trump said, and what the reality is.

False claim: Family separations are Democrats' fault

Trump said the family separations at the border are "a result of Democrat-supported loopholes in our federal laws" that he said could be easily changed.

"These are crippling loopholes that cause family separation, which we don't want," Trump said.

The reality: Trump's administration made a decision to prosecute 100% of adults caught crossing the border illegally even if they came with children, and thus are separating parents from their kids at the border with no clear plan to reunite them after the parents return from jail and court
proceedings.

The administration has long wanted to roll back a law unanimously passed under President George W. Bush and a court settlement dating back decades but most recently affirmed under the Obama administration -- citing those two provisions as "loopholes." Both were designed to protect immigrant children from dangers like human trafficking and to provide minimum standards for their care, including turning them over to the Department of Health and Human Services for resettlement within three days of arrest, as opposed to being held in lengthy detention, and dictating that children with their families also cannot be held in detention or jail-like conditions longer than three weeks.

The administration has complained the laws make it harder to immediately deport or reject immigrants at the border, and that they are not able to detain families indefinitely.

False claim: Thousands of judges

Trump said his administration was hiring "thousands and thousands" of immigration judges, that the US already has "thousands" of immigration judges and that other countries don't have immigration judges.

In reality, there the Justice Department's immigration courts division has 335 judges nationwide, with more than 100 more judges budgeted for, according to a DOJ spokesman.

Because of a massive backlog in the immigration courts, it can take years for those cases to work their way to completion, and many immigrants are allowed to work and live in the US in the meantime, putting down roots. The funding for immigration courts and judges has increased only modestly over the years as funding and resources for enforcement have increased dramatically. A proposal from Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, to address the family separation issue would double the number of judges to 750.

Trump's comments Tuesday echoed remarks he made last month. In a May Fox News interview, he claimed the United States was "essentially the only country that has judges" to handle immigration cases. But that is incorrect.

A number of other countries have immigration court systems or a part of the judiciary reserved for immigration and asylum cases, including Sweden, the United Kingdom and Canada.

False claim: Virtually all immigrants disappear

Trump also claimed falsely that when immigrants are let into the country to have their cases heard by a court, they virtually all go into hiding.

"And by the way, when we release the people, they never come back to the judge, anyway. They're gone," Trump said. "Do you know if a person comes in and puts one foot on our ground, it's essentially, 'Welcome to America, welcome to our country.' You never get them out because they take their name, they bring the name down, they file it, then they let the person go. ... Like 3% come back."

In reality, the number of immigrants who don't show up to court proceedings is far lower. And many of the immigrants released from detention are given monitoring devices such as ankle bracelets to ensure they return.

According to the annual Justice Department yearbook of immigration statistics from fiscal year 2016, the most recent year for which data is available, 25% of immigration court cases were decided "in absentia" -- meaning the immigrant wasn't present in court. In that year, there were 137,875 cases. The number of cases decided "in absentia" between fiscal year 2012 and fiscal year 2016 was between 11% and 28%.

When White House legislative chief Marc Short made a similarly inaccurate claim on Monday, the White House pointed to a statistic about the high percentage of deportation orders for undocumented children that were delivered in absentia, but amid total case completions for minors, the number of in absentia orders has ranged from 40% to 50% in recent years.

Advocates for immigrants attribute some of the missed hearings to often not receiving a court notice mailed to an old address or not having an attorney who can adequately explain the process to the child. Studies have shown that with legal advice and guidance, immigrants are far more likely to show up for hearings and have their claims ultimately be successful.

False claim: Countries are sending bad eggs to the US

Trump said that countries deserve to be punished for illegal immigration, and that they "send" bad eggs to the US.


"They send these people up, and they're not sending their finest," Trump said.

He continued: 'When countries abuse us by sending people up -- not their best -- we're not going to give any more aid to those countries."

In fact, there is no evidence that countries "send" anyone in particular to the US -- rather analyses of recent immigration flows have shown that in recent years, a much higher number of Central Americans have come to the US fleeing rampant gang violence and instability in especially the countries of El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala. Experts who study the countries agree that cutting aid would only further destabilize the region, likely making illegal immigration worse, not better.

Though gang members do cross the border illegally alongside those fleeing violence, the administration has never been able to provide numbers showing that those are a large percentage of the cases. Only a handful of such prosecutions occur a year, while more than 300,000 people were apprehended trying to cross the border illegally last fiscal year. Nearly 120,000 defensive asylum applications were filed last year, according to government data, meaning those individuals believed they were fleeing violent situations back home.

False Claim: Mexico isn't helping the US

Mexico, Trump said, "does nothing for us."


As for Mexico's contribution, experts say the country's crackdown on immigrants within its borders has been a major help to the US in recent years. According to statistics from the US and

Mexican governments compiled by the nonpartisan Migration Policy Institute and shared with CNN, over the past three years, Mexico has deported tens of thousands more migrants back to the primary countries in Central America that drive immigration north. Each of the last three years, Mexican removals exceeded US removals to those countries.

Mexico is also apprehending tens of thousands of Central Americans before they reach the US. According to the data, Mexico intercepted 173,000 Central Americans in fiscal year 2015, 151,000 in fiscal year 2016 and just under 100,000 in fiscal year 2017.

In the past two years, Mexico has lagged behind the US in apprehensions, but Migration Policy Institute President Andrew Selee, an expert on Mexican policy, said that could be due to a number of factors including smugglers successfully changing their routes to avoid detection or relations with Trump.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/19/politics/fact-check-trump-family-separations-immigration/index.html

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Blickers
 
  5  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 09:11 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote glitter;
Quote:
Today on Fox News, Laura Ingram called the toddlers detention camps, summer camps. To add insult to stupidity, Ann Coulter claims the children heard crying are actually child actors and urged Trump not to fall for it. I suppose compassion is for suckers.

To Ingraham and the Trump apologists, reality is for suckers.
Spin is for winners.
Blickers
 
  3  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 09:27 pm
@firefly,
Governors Refuse to Send National Guard to Border, Citing Child Separation Practice
https://i.imgur.com/8OpE8bw.jpg
Members of the United States National Guard in April near the border with Mexico in South Texas.Credit: Lynsey Addario for The New York Times

By Matthew Haag and Jess Bidgood
June 19, 2018

Governors from at least eight states have announced that they would withhold or recall National Guard troops from efforts to secure the United States’ border with Mexico, as the debate over the Trump administration’s practice of separating children from their parents at the southern border seeped into state political battles in an election year.

Many of the governors opposed to sending troops were Democrats, from states including New York, North Carolina and Virginia. But two Republican governors who face re-elections this fall in Maryland and Massachusetts also reversed their plans.

“Until this policy of separating children from their families has been rescinded, Maryland will not deploy any National Guard resources to the border,” Gov. Larry Hogan of Maryland said on Twitter on Tuesday. “Earlier this morning, I ordered our four crew members & helicopter to immediately return from where they were stationed in New Mexico.”

Source
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -4  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 09:34 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
To Ingraham and the Trump apologists, reality is for suckers.

Maybe Bill Clinton and his friend Epstein can take some preteens of the governments hands. That is a reality and they are both free. Next.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 09:37 pm
So far, eight states are refusing to go along with Trump's baby-grabbing policy. Two of them with Republican governors. And tomorrow?

Trump's rolling the alt-right dice, but it's hard to see him coming out ahead.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 09:39 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
but it's hard to see him coming out ahead.

It will be much easier to see in November.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 09:41 pm
@Blickers,
Well, I guess that will be the make or break our belief in America as the beacon of hope. God help us, and may God forgive us.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 09:55 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
So far, eight states are refusing to go along with Trump's baby-grabbing policy. Two of them with Republican governors. And tomorrow?
If this is a problem for Trump, he can order those guardsmen to go to the border himself instead of relying on governors to give that order.
glitterbag
 
  4  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 09:58 pm
@oralloy,
No he can't. I hope you have heard about State Sovereignty.
firefly
 
  3  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 09:58 pm
Two-thirds of Americans disapprove of the Trump administration's practice of taking undocumented immigrant children from their families and putting them in government facilities on US borders, according to a CNN poll conducted by SSRS. Only 28% approve.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/politics/immigration-trump-approval/index.html

https://thefederalistpapers.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Unify-Dems-and-GOP.jpg
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:01 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Trump administration's practice

Lie. It is the law.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:04 pm
@coldjoint,
Oh for Christ's sake it's not. Just freaking own it, you love it and need to own it.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:09 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:

Trump's rolling the alt-right dice, but it's hard to see him coming out ahead.


Kinda reminds me of this, eh, Blicky?:





0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:10 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
No he can't.
That is incorrect. Everyone in the National Guard is a sworn member of the US Army and will always follow the orders of the Commander in Chief.

glitterbag wrote:
I hope you have heard about State Sovereignty.
Are you referring to that time when the National Guard ignored the President and kept obeying the orders of racist southern governors who were resisting court orders to desegregate the schools?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas_National_Guard_and_the_integration_of_Central_High_School
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:17 pm
@oralloy,
Quote oralloy:
Quote:
If this is a problem for Trump, he can order those guardsmen to go to the border himself instead of relying on governors to give that order.

The state militias are under the authority of the respective governors until Congress calls them up into Federal service. Then they are under the authority of the President, who is Commander In Chief.

This was not done, Trump tried to sidestep the nationalization of the state militias by merely requesting the governors to send them. The governors complied, but after finding out about the baby-grabbing at least eight have rescinded the order and ordered the state's troops back.
Blickers
 
  3  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:19 pm
From the US Constitution, Article I (legislative)-which covers the powers of Congress:
Quote:

Section 8:

15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
layman
 
  -2  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:22 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

No he can't. I hope you have heard about State Sovereignty.


Heh. Apparently you don't know what the word "national" means, eh? As in National Guard, ya know?
layman
 
  -1  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:26 pm
@layman,
From wiki:

Quote:
The National Guard of the United States, part of the reserve components of the United States Armed Forces, is a reserve military force, composed of National Guard military members or units of each state and the territories of Guam, the Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, and the District of Columbia, for a total of 54 separate organizations. All members of the National Guard of the United States are also members of the militia of the United States as defined by 10 U.S.C. § 246. National Guard units are under the dual control of the state and the federal government.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Tue 19 Jun, 2018 10:51 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
The state militias are under the authority of the respective governors until Congress calls them up into Federal service.
The National Guard, however, is part of the US Army.
0 Replies
 
 

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