monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

@Lash,

Adding to maporsche's response above...

Can we achieve the sort of security that the proponents of mental health screening are suggesting as a solution without substantially increasing the number of trained psychologists and therapists in the public health system? This would be very expensive and sure to raise the ire of taxpayers. People throw out these solutions without really considering all the details. Managing people's phobias, depression, anger, and envy could be really invasive, with underpaid social workers showing up at people's homes to check to see if they're taking their meds. Pranksters could harass people by turning their names in, clogging up the system with false leads. Legal expenses could be huge. And there would obviously be troubled people who slip through the cracks and others who really aren't "crazy" at all. It's interesting that conservatives who decry the "nanny state" would rather institute one than modify behavior by restricting types of weapons, raising age limits, or establishing a nationwide "permit-to-purchase".

As far as arming teachers, this is a horrible idea, a simpleton's "solution". Poor Mr. Brown, everyone's favorite Social Studies teacher is sent out with his .38 caliber revolver to face a maniac with an AR15 or an AK47. Lead is flying all over the place, the hallways are full of screaming kids, no one even knows how many shooters there are. And the poor bastard will be blaming himself for the rest of his life if the killer isn't stopped or, even worse, an errant .38 slug accidentally kills a student.

Until we muster the political will to attack firearms from the supply side or perfect psychological screening techniques so that potential shooters can be identified and treated I think it makes the most sense to concentrate on increasing the entrance security in school buildings.

Opening Mental Hospitals Unlikely to Prevent Mass Shootings, Experts Say

3 Replies

@hightor,

Agreed.

I posted on facebook that I've made the decisions to destroy the last two guns I own. I'm looking into the best way to do that to ensure that they are destroyed and not just put back into use.

I think fewer guns is the answer. I'm not suggesting a ban, but I'm very supportive of any rules/regulations that would reduce the number of guns sold and in circulation. A total gun ban would violate the 2nd amendment, but we certainly can make it much tougher to get/keep guns.

Maybe in 50-100 years we can change our culture enough that we can join the rest of the civilized (and somehow still free) world.

4 Replies

@maporsche,

I just don't have any shells.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Quote:

Follow up how? Found weapons how? They'd need a warrant to enter his home. They'd need a warrant for wiretapping. What tip would have been enough for a warrant?

Here's Cruz's behavioral history:

When he was in the fourth grade he liked to bloody up squirrels with his pellet gun, and then he started on chickens. As a teenager he snuck into his neighbor's yard and tried to get his dogs to attack their baby pigs. One neighbor saw him ramming long sticks into rabbit holes, apparently trying to kill anything trapped inside. Some neighbors said they called the cops on him frequently, and cop cars were at his house regularly to deal with the latest complaint against him.

Later he became more isolated, withdrawing from even his brother. Then others finally withdrew from him because he started posting scary posts on Instagram and photos of stuff like the bloodied body of a dead frog, and that he wanted to become a school-shooter. Then he was expelled from school, lost his mother to pneumonia and became depressed. He had an explosive temper and seemed to get off on antagonizing others. A kid who grew up on the same block said that people were afraid of him and that just about everybody on his part of the street had a run-in with him; he picked fights with other kids, stole people's mail, threw rocks and vandalized property, got called stealing a neighbor's bike, got caught peeking into a woman's bedroom, and started throwing eggs at his neighbor's car.

Then the daughter of a neighbor drove past him as he was waiting for the school bus. Cruz attacked her car, slamming it with his backpack. She called the police, and they stationed an officer at the intersection to make sure he didn't throw anything at cars. At school he started selling knives out of his lunchbox, and posting on Instagram about guns and killing animals.

He was repeatedly suspended from school. The school administration sent out emails to teachers asking them to keep an eye on him. The Broward County Mayor told CNN that Cruz had been receiving treatment at a mental-health clinic for a while, but that he had not been to the clinic for more than a year.

And in September, a guy emails a screenshot of a comment made by Cruz on social media that had read: "I'm going to be a school shooter."
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now what was your question again?

2 Replies

@hightor,

You are projecting a worst case scenario

Mr. Brown might just as easily step into the hall and put a bullet in the brain of the shooter. It's not as if this kid was a trained commando.

No one knows what would happen. Not you and not me.

But I'm fine with hardening schools with more armed guards...just not ones who don't have the guts to do their job when called upon.

0 Replies

@maporsche,

Do you imagine that this shooter would not have acted out on his homicidal fantasy if he had been deprived ownership of an AR-15?

I don't own a gun and have only fired one a few times but I imagine that you can kill quite a few people with a shotgun and a revolver if no one is shooting back at you. Maybe not 17 young people but is a kill count of 12 or 6 or even 2 OK?

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

Rick Gates is set to appear in federal court 2 p.m. today as part of his plea change, NPR's Carrie Johnson reports.

2:52 pm

https://www.vox.com/2018/2/23/17045226/robert-mueller-just-flipped-his-third-former-trump-aide

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Do you imagine that this shooter would not have acted out on his homicidal fantasy if he had been deprived ownership of an AR-15?

I don't own a gun and have only fired one a few times but I imagine that you can kill quite a few people with a shotgun and a revolver if no one is shooting back at you. Maybe not 17 young people but is a kill count of 12 or 6 or even 2 OK?

Is it ok? No, of course not. But 12 or 6 or even 2 is better than 17.

If I could make all the guns in the USA disappear tomorrow Finn, I would. But I can't, so I need to work with what I have. I have 2 guns in my possession now, I CAN destroy those. I can also work with politicians to support laws that would reduce the number of guns sold or in circulation.

I'm also in support of as much money as you would think should go towards mental health. Republicans can start with trying to not remove it from Obamacare and private insurance.

Let's protect schools too; of course our taxes will need to go up to pay for all this extra security nationwide. I'll support a tax increase for that...will you?

3 Replies

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/2/23/17044810/guns-killing-high-school-kids-alarming-rates

Quote:

Over at PWC, Alex Gaffney crunched the data to see exactly how many high schoolers are dying by guns. He found a staggering 2,300 deaths per year on average in the period 2010 to 2016:

If you think that sounds like a lot, it’s because it is. To put the numbers into context, we took a look at the 15 leading causes of death in high schoolers for 2016.

Injuries, suicide, and homicide were the top three causes of death, killing more than 8,000 teens in 2016.

Gaffney’s data shows 2,665 of those were related to firearms in 2016.

Meanwhile, the next 12 causes led to only 1,500 deaths combined. Among them:

cancer killed 596 high schoolers in 2016;

heart diseases killed 293;

chronic lower respiratory diseases killed 80;

influenza and pneumonia killed 54;

diabetes killed 54.

So guns led to more deaths than the next 12 leading causes of teen deaths combined.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/4ZbYPHsRYQO69tGg_x-Og3i2QuQ=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10285453/firearm_fatalities_15_19.png

0 Replies

@maporsche,

Why did you own your guns?

Are you a hunter or was it for home defense? (Or just because at one time you thought it was cool?)

Despite our constant disagreements, you seem like a sensible chap who can be trusted with owning a gun.

I've no use for hunting but don't condemn those who do providing they do so in a moral way. If you're dumping your hunting weapons, no big deal.

If on the other hand, you are dumping your self-defense weapons, should you ever truly need them (which I hope to God is never the case) and you and your family are slaughtered, will you, with your dying breath, assure yourself "It was worth it. I made an important political statement?"

I appreciate that this may seem harsh, but I think it gets to the meat of the matter.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

I think we can harden schools without an increase in taxes, but if someone can convince me we can't, of course, I will be happy to pay more.

Quote:

No, of course not. But 12 or 6 or even 2 is better than 17.

That's rather glib. So your goal is to reduce the kill count?

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Quote:

If I could make all the guns in the USA disappear tomorrow Finn, I would.

And if I could make everyone act on the basis that human life is sacrosanct, I would, but I can't and neither can you fulfill your fanciful "Imagine" dream.

Makes you sound virtuous but really, so what?

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Why did you own your guns?

At the time I bought them (15+ years ago, in my early 20's) I justified in my mind that it was for self defense. Looking back, it was probably more because the people I was friends with living in Phoenix enjoyed shooting guns and I wanted to fit in.

Quote:

If on the other hand, you are dumping your self-defense weapons, should you ever truly need them (which I hope to God is never the case) and you and your family are slaughtered, will you, with your dying breath, assure yourself "It was worth it. I made an important political statement?"

I'm destroying a Mossberg 500 12 gauge shotgun and a Glock 27 .40cal semi-auto pistol. These would probably be described as self-defense weapons (well the shotgun could be a hunting weapon, but I've never used it for that).

In my 15 years living in Phoenix and now in Chicago (...the national war zone), I've never once felt threatened or like I needed a gun for self defense. I even used to conceal carry when I lived in AZ from 2002-2006. Never stumbled across a time where I'd even considered needing one.

The situation you outline is the only reason I did't get rid of these guns years ago. Emotions are hard to overcome sometimes Finn, and fear is a strong one. Facts are though, I'm more likely to die in some many other ways that I don't much care about either.....or in fact, I'm more likely to die cleaning my guns than I am by some intruder.

But for me, owning guns was never really about self-defense. That's just what I told myself when I would go out and shoot up the desert or head to a local range.

I'm considering taking up archery and doing some bow hunting. Trying to determine if I have enough time to devote to learning how to shoot a bow.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I think we can harden schools without an increase in taxes, but if someone can convince me we can't, of course, I will be happy to pay more.

Quote:
No, of course not. But 12 or 6 or even 2 is better than 17.

That's rather glib. So your goal is to reduce the kill count?

Well, yeah. Reducing the number of people killed is in fact one of my goals. That's also the goal of these drills that kindergartners practice in school.

0 Replies

Chief of staff will decide what to do about Jared Kushner's security clearance and access to top-secret intel, Trump says

Quote:

White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly announced earlier this month that as of today, the White House will no longer allow some employees with interim security clearances access to top-secret information — a move that could threaten Kushner’s standing.

Kushner, a senior adviser to the president and his son-in-law, has been able to see some of the nation’s most sensitive secrets even as his background investigation has dragged on for more than a year.

Trump said during a news conference with the Australian prime minister that he will not intervene and will let Kelly decide what to do with the status of Kushner’s clearance — a decision that could affect his ability to continue taking the lead on sensitive issues, including the administration’s policies in the Middle East.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Quote:
If I could make all the guns in the USA disappear tomorrow Finn, I would.

And if I could make everyone act on the basis that human life is sacrosanct, I would, but I can't and neither can you fulfill your fanciful "Imagine" dream.

Makes you sound virtuous but really, so what?

That sentence was part of a paragraph. Paragraphs are used to express overall points/thoughts. It was a sentence intended to help support the rest of the paragraph. This paragraph, as a whole, is my thought.

I know you understand how the process of writing works.

0 Replies

@ehBeth,

Quote:

Because if Manafort were to know of anything that could implicate Trump in connection with Russia, it seems quite plausible Gates would know it too.

0 Replies

@ehBeth,

Quote:

In court today, Rick Gates told fed judge he understood his prison sentence depended in part on his cooperation with Special Counsel Mueller investigation. He could get 57-71 months in prison.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

They were called to a domestic violence situation on him more than 20 times. You do not need a warrant to see if there are weapons on the premises in that case.

The tip was: he’s threatened to shoot people. Did you follow this case at all?

Looks like you should apply for a job with the FBI. Great investigative skills.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/02/21/us/school-shooter-gun-threats-first-host-family-told-police-invs/index.html

Excerpt:

Just months before Nikolas Cruz killed 17 at his former high school in South Florida, the host family who had taken him in immediately after his mother's death warned local law enforcement that the 19-year-old had "used a gun against people before" and "has put the gun to others' heads in the past," according to records obtained by CNN.

It's the latest indication of how law enforcement encountered warning signs about Cruz's violent behavior before he attacked students and teachers at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on Valentine's Day.

————————
Interested to see what maporsche will say now.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

Quote:
Follow up how? Found weapons how? They'd need a warrant to enter his home. They'd need a warrant for wiretapping. What tip would have been enough for a warrant?

Here's Cruz's behavioral history:

When he was in the fourth grade he liked to bloody up squirrels with his pellet gun, and then he started on chickens. As a teenager he snuck into his neighbor's yard and tried to get his dogs to attack their baby pigs. One neighbor saw him ramming long sticks into rabbit holes, apparently trying to kill anything trapped inside. Some neighbors said they called the cops on him frequently, and cop cars were at his house regularly to deal with the latest complaint against him.

Later he became more isolated, withdrawing from even his brother. Then others finally withdrew from him because he started posting scary posts on Instagram and photos of stuff like the bloodied body of a dead frog, and that he wanted to become a school-shooter. Then he was expelled from school, lost his mother to pneumonia and became depressed. He had an explosive temper and seemed to get off on antagonizing others. A kid who grew up on the same block said that people were afraid of him and that just about everybody on his part of the street had a run-in with him; he picked fights with other kids, stole people's mail, threw rocks and vandalized property, got called stealing a neighbor's bike, got caught peeking into a woman's bedroom, and started throwing eggs at his neighbor's car.

Then the daughter of a neighbor drove past him as he was waiting for the school bus. Cruz attacked her car, slamming it with his backpack. She called the police, and they stationed an officer at the intersection to make sure he didn't throw anything at cars. At school he started selling knives out of his lunchbox, and posting on Instagram about guns and killing animals.

He was repeatedly suspended from school. The school administration sent out emails to teachers asking them to keep an eye on him. The Broward County Mayor told CNN that Cruz had been receiving treatment at a mental-health clinic for a while, but that he had not been to the clinic for more than a year.

And in September, a guy emails a screenshot of a comment made by Cruz on social media that had read: "I'm going to be a school shooter."
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now what was your question again?

0 Replies

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