192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 02:45 pm
@Lash,
Based on background checks, however, the existing database (which exists thanks to the NRA) is missing data from 12 states. How the hell is it supposed to work when there are states that won't populate it?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 02:48 pm
@hightor,
Well, it's nice to see you've studied me, but apparently, you missed the years when I was a manual laborer, drove a truck and was a member of the Teamsters.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 02:49 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
This one move would’ve prevented most of our mass shootings.


Your evidence?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 03:16 pm
http://time.com/5164959/russia-church-shooting-dagestan/
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 04:06 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
...you missed the years when I was a manual laborer, drove a truck and was a member of the Teamsters.

I thought I remembered you saying something like that years ago. It's not uncommon for people to have had experience doing manual labor at an early stage of their work history. Some of us stick with it over our whole working career.

I suppose I could tell you this in a PM but that seems a bit too familiar. But there's something about your style when you go into attack mode that I find irritating. It's how quickly you turn an argument into a personality clash rather than just critique the argument based on a factual or logical analysis. I know, we all do this at times, but you seem to do it with such unprovoked sarcasm and vehemence.

Yesterday, for instance, I said that the 2nd Amendment was an anachronism. Your immediate response was not to ask me "in what way?" or state your reasons for thinking that it remains as relevant today as it was in the late 18th Century. Instead you insult me right off the bat:
Quote:
This is perhaps the most foolish comment you have ever made.

Or you call me a "pompous elitist" for continuing my discussion with nimh using the same term he did. Even my use of "opioid-eater" is interpreted as a blanket condemnation of the working class when in reality it refers only to those people of any background who have chosen to dilute their effectiveness and dull their resentment with narcotics — I don't admire those people but I'm not without empathy for them either. Their presence among us in such great numbers is an indictment of our society. And even oralloy caught my reference to layman's use of the term "cheese-eater". If it hadn't been for layman I'd have probably labeled them as "pharma-junkies" or "small-town addicts" or something.

Yeah, I know, I'm sure you can accuse me of being just as nasty and find some posts of mine where you think I've been a jerk. But I try to avoid doing this on a regular basis as it just seems so unnecessary. We're not making policy here. We're not sitting across from each other seething with rage. We simply have differences of opinion. I don't dislike you for being a conservative. But I think you're smart enough to outline our disagreement without exhibiting personal animosity and I don't know what I've done to warrant such obvious disdain.
glitterbag
 
  6  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 04:16 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The phony CNN "townhall" was a shameful farce. I've lost all respect for Jake Tapper.


Jake will be crushed to hear that.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 04:31 pm
Mueller Brings More Charges Against Manafort, Gates

February 22, 20185:13 PM ET

Quote:
A federal grand jury unveiled new charges on Thursday against Donald Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort and his business associate Rick Gates, accusing them of a broader range of financial crimes.

The 32-count indictment filed in the Eastern District of Virginia includes numerous tax and bank fraud charges. Manafort and Gates already faced money laundering and other charges in federal court in Washington, D.C.

They have pleaded not guilty.

The charges unsealed Thursday compound both men's already immense legal challenges, and may be an attempt by special counsel Robert Mueller's team to squeeze them further.

Sources have told NPR in recent weeks that Gates, who is struggling to pay his mounting legal fees, may be in the process of negotiating a guilty plea.


snip

Quote:
The charges Manafort and Gates face, on the other hand, stem from political consulting work they did for a pro-Russian political party in Ukraine — and allegedly attempting to shield their earnings from that work from U.S. authorities. They do not include allegations that either man colluded with a foreign attack on the election.

In its court filing, the special counsel's office said it brought the new charges before the grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia because "our current evidence venue for these charges does not exist in the district of Columbia."


charges at the state level

best part

https://www.npr.org/2018/02/22/588091558/mueller-brings-more-charges-against-manafort-gates
ehBeth
 
  2  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 04:39 pm
@ehBeth,
the indictment if you feel like reading the whole thing

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4385686/Manafort-2.pdf

lots of this kind of thing

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWq6RsRUQAAjz8w.jpg
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 04:47 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
...you missed the years when I was a manual laborer, drove a truck and was a member of the Teamsters.

I thought I remembered you saying something like that years ago. It's not uncommon for people to have had experience doing manual labor at an early stage of their work history. Some of us stick with it over our whole working career.

And that marginalizes the experience of those who have "moved on?" My experience during those days was very important to my worldview. I realized that there was a great number of people who didn't share my intellectual bent or even my middle-class socio-economic status who were, nevertheless sensible and wise. Are you suggesting that because I did not wish to remain in that milieu that I am somehow "out of touch?" You drove a truck all your life and so you are somehow more authentic than me?

I suppose I could tell you this in a PM but that seems a bit too familiar. But there's something about your style when you go into attack mode that I find irritating. It's how quickly you turn an argument into a personality clash rather than just critique the argument based on a factual or logical analysis. I know, we all do this at times, but you seem to do it with such unprovoked sarcasm and vehemence.

I can say the same about you, so spare me.

Yesterday, for instance, I said that the 2nd Amendment was an anachronism. Your immediate response was not to ask me "in what way?" or state your reasons for thinking that it remains as relevant today as it was in the late 18th Century. Instead you insult me right off the bat:
Quote:
This is perhaps the most foolish comment you have ever made.


Some comments are ridiculous on their face. Yours was.

Or you call me a "pompous elitist" for continuing my discussion with nimh using the same term he did. Even my use of "opioid-eater" is interpreted as a blanket condemnation of the working class when in reality it refers only to those people of any background who have chosen to dilute their effectiveness and dull their resentment with narcotics — I don't admire those people but I'm not without empathy for them either. Their presence among us in such great numbers is an indictment of our society. And even oralloy caught my reference to layman's use of the term "cheese-eater". If it hadn't been for layman I'd have probably labeled them as "pharma-junkies" or "small-town addicts" or something.

I read what you've written and I don't buy your excuses.

Yeah, I know, I'm sure you can accuse me of being just as nasty and find some posts of mine where you think I've been a jerk. But I try to avoid doing this on a regular basis as it just seems so unnecessary. We're not making policy here. We're not sitting across from each other seething with rage. We simply have differences of opinion. I don't dislike you for being a conservative. But I think you're smart enough to outline our disagreement without exhibiting personal animosity and I don't know what I've done to warrant such obvious disdain.

If you acknowledge that I can find posts of yours that resemble those of mine to which you object then "game over." Stop whining. You, as I am, are an anonymous figure in a political forum. I'm not here to make friends.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 04:48 pm
@glitterbag,
No doubt he will just as all the great unwashed anti-intellectuals have been crushed over your screeds.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 04:51 pm
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/berniecrats-endorse-kucinich-bernie-keeps-his-distance.html
maporsche
 
  5  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 04:52 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

So let's see...an 18 year old kid can join the military, get sent to a war zone to kill and possibly be killed but if he makes it back alive before he turns 21, he can't buy a gun or a beer?


You're right Finn.

You should have to be 21 to join the military too.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 04:56 pm
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/frank-rich-trump-will-never-cross-the-nra.html

Rich on last week's indictments (the 13 Russians)

Quote:
If you read the indictment, it’s clear that Mueller’s team knows in granular detail virtually everything that went on during the 2016 election, and is steadily laying out the criminality one step at a time.

Trump defenders who keep saying there’s no there there now have to see (whether they acknowledge it or not) that there was a huge there there: what even Trump’s national security adviser H. R. McMaster felt compelled to describe as “incontrovertible” evidence of the Russian effort to sabotage American democracy at its heart, the ballot box.

By proving that crime, the indictment lays the groundwork for charging those who attempted to obstruct the investigation of the crime.

Meanwhile, Mueller keeps dealing out new cards, including a reported plea deal for Paul Manafort’s deputy Rick Gates and a reported investigation of a Chicago banker who may have been promised a White House job by Manafort in exchange for $16 million in loans.

Manafort may soon have to decide whether he wants to spend the rest of his life in prison or start squealing on Trump.

Still to come: the fruits of Mueller’s investigation into the Russian hacking of Clinton and DNC emails.


much more at the link
including backing links
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 05:00 pm
@maporsche,
One or the other.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  3  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 05:03 pm
@ehBeth,
The way it looks, Gates has flipped......
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  2  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 05:04 pm
@ehBeth,
The way it looks, Gates has not flipped......yet?
hightor
 
  3  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 05:14 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:

And that marginalizes the experience of those who have "moved on?"

Not at all. Just pointing out that having had experience working manual labor is something that lots of people have in common, including many who have, in your words, "moved on". Real provocative stuff...



ehBeth
 
  2  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 05:19 pm
@BillW,
I think he doesn't have counsel right now.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 05:25 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
Oralboy

You engage in childish namecalling because you are not capable of adding anything intelligent to the discussion.


glitterbag wrote:
so if it never happened to you or your Mom, your sister or daughter or niece, shut the fu&k up.

You'd love it if you could silence civil rights advocates, wouldn't you?

Too bad for you that you can't.

Good for everyone who is protected by civil rights advocates though.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Thu 22 Feb, 2018 05:27 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
If it can be done, confidently effectively, in five minutes, I wouldn’t be a stickler for a day, but safety is prioritized over a quick sale. And if NRA proponents are down with that-good.

The NRA has long supported having the government given a one-day limit to do background checks, with no further wait if the check has already been fully completed. It is the gun control advocates who oppose that, because they want to force people to wait for no reason just to hassle them when they exercise their rights.


Lash wrote:
I have a gun. We’re a gun family, but we all support reasonable safety measures.

The term "reasonable" is only used when the proposal is a civil rights violation.


Lash wrote:
Who is on s prohibited list that shouldn’t be?

At the moment, all disabled war veterans who can't balance their own checkbook are on the list of people who are not allowed to buy guns.

Obama tried expanding that to all disabled people who can't balance their own checkbook, but the Republicans passed a statute that repealed that (and forbade any future president from making a similar executive order) when Trump was elected.

The Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act would repeal the targeting of disabled war veterans as well, but we're still waiting for Congress to pass it. Whether we see legislative action on that and/or a few other bills is going to determine whether I vote for Republicans in 2018 or vote for a third party.

Had the left succeeded in their targeting of disabled people, they would have expanded that to include more and more people who have the right to buy guns. A likely next target would be people who wear glasses (a tribute to their hero Pol Pot).


Lash wrote:
And, this whole registry can be thwarted by any private gun transfer. Everybody-even father to son-should file documentation on the transfer of a gun. Every recipient of a gun should go through a background check and be registered in possession of that weapon.
That’s not too bad, is it?

What sort of registration? The decentralized registration that we've had since 1968? Or centralized registration that the left wants because they intend to use it as a weapon to violate our rights with?

The NRA will never allow centralized registration.
 

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