192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 03:09 pm
@Setanta,
Thanks for the info on the CA plan.

I do think that having even a single state implementing some form of UHC or medicare for all or even the public option would go a long way to having it gain nationwide acceptance.

CA should be able to do it. I don't quite understand why some blue states haven't been able to implement a system.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 03:14 pm
@maporsche,
Doesn't Massachusetts have cushy Mitt Romney care?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 03:18 pm
@maporsche,
I agree completely--Massachusetts started a California-like plan (similar to Medi-Cal) and it runs about $1700 per employee, after the employer contribution. If the Federal government won't lead, then the states have to take up the banner. The Massachusetts plan is a mix of state money, mandated employer money and employee premiums.

Massachusetts Health Insurance Plans
maporsche
 
  4  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 03:23 pm
@Setanta,
I'll need to look into this more, but if these are really public options that are working then the DNC needs some better marketing plan.
layman
 
  -2  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 03:31 pm
@Setanta,
Irrespective of the huge increase in the (already steadily increasing) number of revenue-generating businesses who are leaving California, this bill will pass easily. Why? Well, because, looky here:

The LA Times wrote:


1. Benefits would be generous, including all inpatient and outpatient care, dental and vision care, mental health and substance abuse treatment, and prescription drugs. Patients would be able to see any healthcare provider of their choosing.

2. ...you’d end up paying instead through taxes...There are some people who at the end of the day will end up paying more, others who will end up paying less." A recent state Senate analysis pondered a 15% payroll tax as a way to raise the estimated $200 billion needed in revenue to cover the program’s costs

3.Whether you’re insured through an employer, through Covered California or on public programs such as Medi-Cal, as long as you’ve established California residency — regardless of legal immigration status — you would be enrolled in a single plan.


Free **** paid for by by businesses (in state that is already considered to be hostile to business)!! But, best of all, Mexicans can get the free **** too.

Both the Mexican government and the hispanics (who now outnumber whites in California) who control State government want all the millions of Mexican citizens living in California, mostly impoverished (70% are getting other welfare subsidies right now) to also get free lifetime healthcare in the U.S.

They don't care if every business in California leaves the State (they will when the state collapses financially, sure, but that won't happen until later).

In nature, parasites regulate their own population, so as not to bleed their host to death (which would be self-genocide). But there aint nuthin "natural" about California, so...
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 04:01 pm
The real scandal is how much America pays per capita on publicly funded healthcare, more than most countries, yet it hasn't got UHC while countries that pay less have.



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/OECD_health_expenditure_per_capita_by_country.svg/600px-OECD_health_expenditure_per_capita_by_country.svg.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita<br />
Let's not forget the exorbitant prices big pharmaceuticals charge, it's one thing to recoup costs of R&D and make a profit, but they really take the piss.
BillW
 
  3  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 04:14 pm
Way to go tRump, you've set more records that are real! LOCK HIM UP!

Quote:

Dow plunges 1,175 -- worst point decline in history

It was the scariest day on Wall Street in years.
Stocks went into free fall on Monday, and the Dow plunged almost 1,600 points -- easily the biggest point decline in history during a trading day.

Buyers charged back in and limited the damage, but at the closing bell the Dow was still down 1,175 points, by far its worst closing point decline on record.

The drop amounted to 4.6% -- the biggest decline since August 2011, during the European debt crisis. But it was nowhere close to the destruction on Black Monday in 1987 or the financial crisis of 2008. Still, for investors lulled to sleep by the steady upward climb since Election Day, it was alarming.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/05/investing/stock-market-today-dow-jones/index.html


0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 04:27 pm
Quote:
Thousands of campaigners have marched on Downing Street to protest NHS funding shortages, as the health service suffers its worst ever winter crisis.

Protesters carrying placards with the words “kick the Tories out”, and “more staff, more beds, more funds”, gathered in central London in large numbers in support of fixing what they say is a “crisis” in the NHS.

“Keep your hands off our NHS,” they chanted as they marched towards Downing Street.

The demonstration, called “NHS in crisis: Fix it now”, was organised by the People’s Assembly and Health Campaigns Together.

Among the demonstrators was Jamie, a disability rights advocate who was attending the march in his wheelchair.

He was injured in a serious car crash 21 years ago. “I owe my life to the NHS,” he said.

“There is a tragedy unfolding and the fact is that so many desperate people are traumatised, stigmatised and stressed by work-capability testing.”

“I have faith, and so do all these folk here, that it’s so important to have the principle of service that is [free] at the point of use so that when you are ill, when your child is running a high fever, when you need the hospital or a doctor, you can get them without worrying about having to pay for it.”

Actor Ralf Little, who was due to speak at the march, has previously told how his mother was saved by NHS treatment when she suffered a stroke.

He said: “My mother was rushed to hospital in an ambulance, received expert emergency care, stayed in hospital for two weeks to recover, was treated daily by consultants, physical therapists, occupational therapists and nursing staff, was escorted home in a taxi and checked on three times a day for a further five week.

Thousands of campaigners have marched on Downing Street to protest NHS funding shortages, as the health service suffers its worst ever winter crisis.

Protesters carrying placards with the words “kick the Tories out”, and “more staff, more beds, more funds”, gathered in central London in large numbers in support of fixing what they say is a “crisis” in the NHS.

“Keep your hands off our NHS,” they chanted as they marched towards Downing Street.

The demonstration, called “NHS in crisis: Fix it now”, was organised by the People’s Assembly and Health Campaigns Together.

Among the demonstrators was Jamie, a disability rights advocate who was attending the march in his wheelchair.

He was injured in a serious car crash 21 years ago. “I owe my life to the NHS,” he said.

“There is a tragedy unfolding and the fact is that so many desperate people are traumatised, stigmatised and stressed by work-capability testing.”

Nicky Evans
@nickyevansbsl
Huge crowds out today! #FundOurNHS

Save Lewisham Hospital campaigner Tamsyn Bacchus said she feared the NHS could gradually transform into a US-style private health service unless urgent action was taken.

Dr. Stephen McKeever
@Stephen8McK
Don’t let Tory vultures destroy OUR NHS @k1rstenmoore @theRCN

“I have faith, and so do all these folk here, that it’s so important to have the principle of service that is [free] at the point of use so that when you are ill, when your child is running a high fever, when you need the hospital or a doctor, you can get them without worrying about having to pay for it.”

Actor Ralf Little, who was due to speak at the march, has previously told how his mother was saved by NHS treatment when she suffered a stroke.

He said: “My mother was rushed to hospital in an ambulance, received expert emergency care, stayed in hospital for two weeks to recover, was treated daily by consultants, physical therapists, occupational therapists and nursing staff, was escorted home in a taxi and checked on three times a day for a further five weeks.”

The Shadow Health Secretary, Jon Ashworth, also planned to be at the protest.

He has warned the NHS is experiencing its worst winter on record, on the service’s 70th anniversary year.

It comes just days after it was revealed hospitals are at their fullest point this winter, as the health service struggled to perform under significant strain.

Bed occupancy pressures in the weeks after Christmas saw the heads of major A&E departments write to Theresa May warning that patients were “dying prematurely in corridors” because they could not be properly cared for.

But now bed occupancy, for the week ending 28 January, has crept even higher, reaching 95.1 per cent across the NHS – the highest weekly average since reporting began at the end of November.


The Independent

So basically the same folks who brought the British bretix (right?)brought austerity to the British health care and now the Health care system is going broke. Giving the Torries the perfect excuse to go private? The plague has spread.
0 Replies
 
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wmwcjr
 
  1  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 04:49 pm
@blatham,
That's my kind of football player. A great guy! I'd call him a hero.

A refreshing change from the likes of the loudmouth, pro-bullying Mike Ditka, who stupidly claims that black Americans haven't been oppressed for the last 100 years. Rolling Eyes Let's see now. I attended high school in the Spring Branch Independent District in Houston, Texas, during the second half of the 1960s -- which is certainly within the last 100 years. Years later a friend of mine who was on the football team at one of the rival teams in the district would tell me that several of his teammates would sometimes amuse themselves by beating on old black men with rubber hoses. Considering the fact that Herman Short (who was George Wallace's choice to be Attorney General) was then the Houston Police Chief, I seriously doubt the young punks would have ever been arrested. I wonder if Ditka, when he was a teenager, ever amused himself in a similar way; namely, at someone else's expense.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 05:03 pm
@maporsche,
Good thing you have Setanta watching your back. I almost conned you there! Smile

Although I'm not quite sure how I distorted the facts.

The cost for the plan is estimated at least $400 billion and that is over $100 billion more than the state spent it total last year.

I don't believe I stated that the plan would require an additional expenditure of $4 billion, maybe Setanta can point where I did. Unless the state is spending $0 in subsidizing healthcare for Californians (which only a fool would believe) obviously some of the $400 billion is already being spent. How much? I didn't know and I didn't say because it's irrelevant to my point.

I had to laugh, though, when Setanta protested that only $200 hundred billion in additional funds would need to be found, an amount that is more than 100% of last year's entire budget

And the idea that this astronomical amount can be funded by only a 15% payroll tax increase? Smile

In any case, my point wasn't the California plan itself. I didn't predict it would be passed (but hey, if it's such a great deal how could Californians not go for it?) nor did I predict that it would ultimately fail if it were passed.

Unlike Setanta, apparently, I tend to think a state that is considering more than doubling its budget for any reason is a pretty big deal (even if it's a piece of cake to come up with a mere $200 billion) and if it's being done to fund a single-payer healthcare system that's pretty significant. It should be apparent by now that I also am not quite as sanguine as he is about how California would find the money needed and remain solvent over the longer haul. However this is currently the best domestic example of the NHS available to us

Politicians are forever telling us we can have something for nothing or next to nothing, and, let's face it, this is far more the case with politicians on the left than on the right.

"How would you like free healthcare? You would? I knew it; just vote for me and you'll have it! How will it be paid for? Hey, don't worry about that. California is filled with capitalist fat cats who can be squeezed for a lousy $200 billion. What's that you say? Might they just move their businesses out of the state and take jobs with them? Naaah! Even if they do, Silicon Valley will always be with us and those guys are always going to be the richest fat cats the world has ever known. As for the ones who leave (That is if we let them. Hehe - Know what I mean?), we'll just slap a big tax on any of their products sold in the state. California is too big a market for them to pull out of entirely. Look how it's worked with automobiles! Come again? Won't they just increase the price of their goods and services to cover the increased tax? Hey! Why are you trying to get in the weeds on this? It's over your head. We can do this thing, it's just too complicated to explain right now. Question is do you want that free healthcare? Do you?"


Whether or not any of will happens involves speculation, and is not the main point of my comment. That point is that it could happen and unless your experience is that you've never seen the Middle Class left holding the bag for the promises of politicians that are predicated on soaking the rich, you have to admit that it's also possible that if the bill were to pass, even if it's is wildly popular, it could run into fiscal problems (Let's see... how far back do we have to go for a good example...I know - Obamacare!)

With such a plan, fiscal problems will lead to one of two things: Increased funding with associated taxation or decreased services.

If and when such a thing happens (as it appears has happened in the UK) it will behoove everyone to ask some simple, but pertinent questions...like the ones I posed concerning NHS

Assuming that the UK demonstrators are correct about the system being broken and/or gutted unless the UK government simply misplaced a hundred billion dollars or so, that amount of money is going to have to be taken from somewhere and put back in the NHS or obtained from British taxpayers.

I'm curious to know which it is, but I would think Brits would be demanding the answers. Maybe they've already gotten them in which case I hope one of our members here can illuminate this thread as to what they are.

Of course, there is also the possibility that the demonstrators are petulant cranks and full of it, but I've yet to see anyone advance that possibility.
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 05:51 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
We're rather ambivalent about the queen, but we love the NHS.
I am terribly fond of you English folks.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 05:52 pm
@ehBeth,
Wow.
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 05:58 pm
@wmwcjr,
How tragic that this racial animosity has such power over so many people who grew up with it.
BillW
 
  3  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 05:59 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Wow.


It maybe an indicator that SCOTUS is not going to be a politcal foil for the extreme rightwing like Congress is proving to be. At least for Alito - he handled this single handedly. I find this a little surprising but hopeful for the future.

Quote:

The GOP leaders asked the U.S. Supreme Court to intervene, but Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. turned down their request for a stay without even referring the case to his colleagues. He gave no reason for the decision, but generally the Supreme Court stays out of the way when a state’s highest court is interpreting its own state constitution.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-refuses-to-block-pa-ruling-invalidating-congressional-mapdecision-means-2018-elections-in-the-state-will-probably-be-held-in-districts-far-more-favorable-to-democrats/2018/02/05/2d758f90-0aa3-11e8-8890-372e2047c935_story.html?utm_term=.485a090b571f
BillW
 
  2  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 06:02 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

How tragic that this racial animosity has such power over so many people who grew up with it.


Even as a 7 year old I thought it was a no brainer. As I grew older I realized that under the surface it was boiling. Then, at 40 I starting seeing blatant racism in parts of my family and serious stuff on my wife's side. Yeah, it has a for sure smell, and it is rank right now in the southern USA.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 06:20 pm
Boy, Trump is going to tweet the hell out of the largest ever drop in the Dow. They will go something like this:
Quote:
Me and my team are working 24/7 on this unprecedented drop in the stock market. First, we have to figure out what I did wrong because the economy is determined by me, as I've said many, many times before. We're going to get this right and if we fail, you can voice your understandable disapproval in the mid-terms. God bless America.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 06:21 pm
@maporsche,
You mean my Russian bot colleagues, right?
blatham
 
  2  
Mon 5 Feb, 2018 06:22 pm
@BillW,
My guess is that his hands were tied by precedent. He's a serious ideologue of the extreme sort and is a frequent guest at the Koch shindigs.
 

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