192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
layman
 
  -4  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 07:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

layman wrote:
You tell me, Walt, you're the commie.
I have no idea - you didn't source your quote, that's why I asked.
(And I'm a member of the (German) Social-Democratic Party, not a "commie".)


Maybe you should oughta read the post I responded to if ya wanna have any clue about what I was sayin, eh, Walt? Try something new, ya know?
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 07:36 am
Well, we will be shelling out more tax money for Trump's Super bowl watch at his golf club; thereby making Trump a nice chunk of change.

Quote:
President Trump and first lady Melania Trump will host a Super Bowl watch party at the Trump International Golf Club in Palm Beach, Fla. on Sunday.

The party will be held before the First Family travels back to Washington, D.C., according to a schedule released by the White House.

Former President Obama and first lady Michelle Obama hosted a Super Bowl party in the White House Residence's Treaty Room in 2016.

Trump has maintained a friendly relationship with one of this year's teams, the New England Patriots.

The president is friends with the team's owner Robert Kraft, as well as star quarterback Tom Brady.

He has also exchanged letters with coach Bill Belichick.


The Hill

0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  6  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 07:43 am
@revelette1,
Ha!
Quote:
For weeks, allies of President Trump ratcheted up pressure to “release the memo.” The impact, according to supporters, would be monumental: It would shake the F.B.I. “to its core” (Representative Jeff Duncan of South Carolina) or it would reveal abuses “100 times bigger” than what incited the American Revolution (Sebastian Gorka, a former White House official).

NYT
Nunes and his gang of foaming-mouthed Trump enablers would have been smarter not to release the stupid "memo".
Quote:
The memo from House Republicans, led by Representative Devin Nunes, fell well short of the hype. Its main argument is that when the Justice Department sought a warrant to wiretap the former Trump adviser Carter Page, it did not reveal that Christopher Steele — the author of a controversial opposition-research dossier — was funded by the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign through a law firm.

This is actually a fairly common — and rarely effective — argument made by defendants who seek to suppress evidence obtained by a warrant.

op cit


Rep. Nadler:
Quote:

Nothing in the Nunes memo rules out the possibility that considerable evidence beyond the Steele dossier helped the court reach that conclusion.

The central allegation of the Nunes memo is that the government committed a fraud when it obtained an order to conduct surveillance of Carter Page, a member of President Trump’s foreign policy team during the campaign. The memo claims that “[t]he ‘dossier’ compiled by Christopher Steele . . . formed an essential part of the Carter Page FISA application,” but that the government failed to disclose “the role of the DNC, Clinton campaign, or any party/campaign in funding Steele’s efforts.” If not for this misrepresentation to the court, the story goes, there never would have been a Russia investigation.

This claim is deliberately misleading and deeply wrong on the law.


How cruel to dishonestly set up Trump supporters this way, getting them and the Russian bots to squeal "Release the memo!" and then give them nothing and leave them hanging out there like chumps. You've been duped. Time to chuck those ugly red MAGA hats in the trash and get the pitchforks — don't let these liars make fools of you this way!



hightor
 
  5  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 07:51 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, forgive me for going ad hominem but here's a example of this reporter's limitations and bias:
Quote:
Rowan Scarborough's article published Sunday in the Washington Times is a perfect illustration of a culture of misogyny and victim blaming, which has perpetuated the ongoing epidemic of rape and sexual assault in the United States Military. In addition to being inaccurate, the arguments put forth by Scarborough serve to advance a reprehensible and thinly veiled attack on women who serve in the military.

In his article, Scarborough openly suggests that women are undermining the effectiveness of our forces by sexually baiting male service members and then crying rape when it goes farther than they anticipated. Scarborough quotes a retired Army officer and analyst at the Family Research Council, who argues "some women invite problems which lead men on and then result in advances that women can't turn off. Too often, such female culpability leads to allegations of sexual contact, assault, and then the women feign innocence."

Huffington

Since he's so ready to blame the victim in this case from '13, you'd think he'd have no trouble blaming Team Trump for setting up all those meetings with Russian operatives in the first place..
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 08:00 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
We all know your position on the Democratic Party, Roy.

Are you handing out nicknames to everyone now too?


hightor wrote:
It's not going to happen.

Don't be so negative. All we'd have to do is pass a law against the Democratic Party because of all of their horrible abuses.


hightor wrote:
And even if the party were outlawed, you'd still have millions and millions of former Democrats hanging around posing a possible source of political infection to the remaining parties. So I think you really need to forget about the outlawing the party and start a campaign to eliminate actual Democrats. It's the only way you'll be able to achieve a final solution to the vexing problem of political freedom.

Political freedom isn't a problem.

People who conduct witch hunts against innocent people just for disagreeing with them are a problem.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 08:03 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
I've noticed that some people like to post articles which uphold their viewpoint and then cleverly neglect to provide a citation because then everyone would immediately see that the sources are biased and lack credibility. This story's from the execrable Unification Church-owned Washington Times — I'd be embarrassed to cite it as a source too. Hell, I'd be embarrassed to even post it in the first place.

Don't be silly. The Washington Times is certainly biased (no more so than MSNBC), but they are truthful and reputable when it comes to facts.

Would you be embarrassed to cite something truthful and factual if it came from MSNBC?
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 08:08 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
Walter, forgive me for going ad hominem but here's a example of this reporter's limitations and bias:
Quote:
Rowan Scarborough's article published Sunday in the Washington Times is a perfect illustration of a culture of misogyny and victim blaming, which has perpetuated the ongoing epidemic of rape and sexual assault in the United States Military. In addition to being inaccurate, the arguments put forth by Scarborough serve to advance a reprehensible and thinly veiled attack on women who serve in the military.

In his article, Scarborough openly suggests that women are undermining the effectiveness of our forces by sexually baiting male service members and then crying rape when it goes farther than they anticipated. Scarborough quotes a retired Army officer and analyst at the Family Research Council, who argues "some women invite problems which lead men on and then result in advances that women can't turn off. Too often, such female culpability leads to allegations of sexual contact, assault, and then the women feign innocence."

Huffington

Sounds to me more like an example of feminist nuttiness.

If you'd be embarrassed to cite the Washington Times, aren't you also embarrassed to cite the Huffington Post?
layman
 
  -4  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 08:23 am
@hightor,
Nice try, cheese-eater:

Quote:
Franks v. Delaware, 438 U.S. 154 (1978), is a United States Supreme Court case dealing with defendants' rights to challenge evidence collected on the basis of a warrant granted on the basis of a false statement. The court held that where a warrant affidavit contains a statement, necessary to the finding of probable cause, that is demonstrated to be both false and included by an affiant knowingly and intentionally, or with reckless disregard for the truth, the warrant is not valid.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks_v._Delaware

As just cited:

Quote:
In the dossier, he stated without reservation that an “extensive conspiracy between Trump’s campaign team and the Kremlin” existed.
layman
 
  -2  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 08:52 am
@layman,
The Supreme Court wrote:
"Alternative sanctions of a perjury prosecution, administrative discipline, contempt, or a civil suit are not likely to fill the gap...self-scrutiny is a lofty ideal, but its exaltation reaches new heights if we expect a District Attorney to prosecute himself or his associates for well meaning violations of the search and seizure clause during a raid the District Attorney or his associates have ordered."


https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/438/154/case.html

This 1978 case just held that, in addition to every other available remedy, the evidence must be thrown out.

Even before this case was decided, a cop lying on a search warrant application could be:

1. Convicted of perjury
2. Held in contempt for attempting to perpetrate a fraud on the court and have his sorry ass taken straight to jail
3. Be bankrupted in a suit for violation of a citizen's civil rights, and, of course,
4. Disciplined internally by the relevant agency.

In these circumstances, I expect ALL FOUR of those "alternative remedies" to be pursued, know what I'm sayin?
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 09:01 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Would you be embarrassed to cite something truthful and factual if it came from MSNBC?

I'd be pretty circumspect if I were trying to use it in a debate with a conservative. Even if it were factual it sort of sets off an alarm that the NYT or WP might not.
layman
 
  -2  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 09:06 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
Would you be embarrassed to cite something truthful and factual if it came from MSNBC?

I'd be pretty circumspect if I were trying to use it in a debate with a conservative. Even if it were factual it sort of sets off an alarm that the NYT or WP might not.


No need for 'circumspection." "Conservatives" (i.e., reasonable people) don't reflexively and invariably resort to cheap-ass ad homs when they want to challenge a claim, like cheese-eaters do. You're just projecting.
hightor
 
  4  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 09:07 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
If you'd be embarrassed to cite the Washington Times, aren't you also embarrassed to cite the Huffington Post?

In this case the particular quote served my purpose — to make an ad hominem attack.. If I had more time I'd have tried to find Scarborough's original article and use that instead. But your point has validity. I think Huffington tends to draw in lots of people who aren't actually on their payroll, though, so the bias isn't as institutional.
hightor
 
  5  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 09:11 am
@layman,
Quote:
"Conservatives" (i.e., reasonable people) don't reflexively and invariably resort to cheap-ass ad homs when they want to challenge a claim...

That's really good to know. I might be a conservative myself since my use of the ad hominem is neither reflexive nor invariable. I labeled it as such because I recognized it for what it was, you know, like a reasonable person.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 09:12 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
I'd be pretty circumspect if I were trying to use it in a debate with a conservative. Even if it were factual it sort of sets off an alarm that the NYT or WP might not.

In my view, full honesty is always the best policy.

Personally I always try to go to the original source. For example, if Reuters/AP/AFP is quoting a certain newspaper as originating a story, I go directly to that newspaper and try to use that as my cite (unless it is totally behind a paywall or something).

If the original source is biased (but still truthful), I still make it clear what the source is, and if necessary argue that they are truthful despite their bias.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 09:18 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

here's a example of this reporter's limitations and bias:
Huffpo wrote:
Rowan Scarborough's article published Sunday in the Washington Times is a perfect illustration of a culture of misogyny and victim shaming....
If I had more time I'd have tried to find Scarborough's original article and use that instead.


Figures, sho nuff. You're just saying you would have resorted to a different ad hom (which you did), that's all. It's not a matter of refraining from ad homs which (contrary to your self-assessment) you don't even recognize as such since, you're so habituated to their use. For you, it's just a matter of trying to find what you believe to be the BEST ad hom.

How about trying, just for once, to actually address the TRUTH of an article, even if you don't like the facts it contains, eh?
hightor
 
  6  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 09:56 am
@layman,
Quote:
How about trying, just for once, to actually address the TRUTH of an article, even if you don't like the facts it contains, eh?

A common rhetorical technique is to claim that one's interpretation of an event or statement must be "true" if some verifiable facts are included in the argument. A person can assemble a lot of facts which are true and still come to a conclusion which is ambiguous, prejudiced, or false.

Scarborough devotes his piece to attacking Steele and the dossier — which really aren't the issue here. There would still be a case without the dossier and Mueller would still be digging to find the answers to the question of Russian involvement in the '16 election and in Trump's campaign.

Quote:
“I think that there is probably some credibility to the content,” Richard Dearlove [ex-head MI6] of told the BBC’s “Newsnight” program on Tuesday.


It's up to the Mueller team, not Steele — or Scarborough — to sort out what's credible and what isn't.

layman
 
  -4  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 10:13 am
hightor wrote:

Quote:
How about trying, just for once, to actually address the TRUTH of an article, even if you don't like the facts it contains, eh?

A common rhetorical technique is to claim that one's interpretation of an event or statement must be "true" if some verifiable facts are included in the argument. A person can assemble a lot of facts which are true and still come to a conclusion which is ambiguous, prejudiced, or false.


Obviously.

Quote:
It's up to the Mueller team, not Steele — or Scarborough — to sort out what's credible and what isn't.


It was up to the FBI, at the time the warrant was being sought, NOT to commit fraud on the court. Ya don't go tryin to present supposed "fact" to a court when ya know it's coming from a paid liar with one goal in mind (besides bilkin Hillary Clinton out of $160,00--with promises of more coming from the FBI its own damn self--I mean). And ya sho nuff don't try to "beef up" the lies by sayin he wasn't the source of a slanderous article by Isikoff and by leaking confidential information to ensure the fake story gets published.
layman
 
  -4  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 10:33 am
@layman,
layman wrote:

It was up to the FBI, at the time the warrant was being sought, NOT to commit fraud on the court. Ya don't go tryin to present supposed "fact" to a court when ya know it's coming from a paid liar with one goal in mind (besides bilkin Hillary Clinton out of $160,00--with promises of more coming from the FBI its own damn self--I mean). And ya sho nuff don't try to "beef up" the lies by sayin he wasn't the source of a slanderous article by Isikoff and by leaking confidential information to ensure the fake story gets published.


It aint surprising, of course, that some cheese-eater who has spent his whole life voicing concerns about the government surreptitiosuly violating the civil rights of its citizens, would SUDDENLY praise the government and praise them to doing it so long as they're doing to hurt a guy they HATE, eh?

Some might say this exposes a lack of principle by cheese-eaters. But I don't see it that way. They really have only one principle and they seem to adhere to it pretty consistently, to wit: HATE.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Sun 4 Feb, 2018 10:42 am
@izzythepush,
Yes, I get that you’re having fun at Trump’s expense. Quite fun.

I’ve also picked up in the fact that you’re not fond of Haley.

All this suits me fine.

Whenever any woman is slut-shamed unfairly, it emboldens our society to feel comfortable doing that to any woman they disagree with. In the same ballpark as knowing Weinstein was raping women and snickering about it.

I believe it’s an unfair, sexist thing to do, and I speak up about it.

Wolffe has gotten away with it because Haley is unpopular, and I’m speaking against all the false so-called liberal feminists who snicker about it.

It’s always wrong.
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