192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 10:37 am
http://www.nationalreview.com/morning-jolt/454965/no-isis-be-seen-2018?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=171227_Jolt&utm_term=Jolt

If you're tired of all the doom & gloom from the Resistance.
layman
 
  -4  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 10:52 am
@layman,
If I published a headline claiming that a cat is a dog, that would be "news" (which you would immediately broadcast) by your standards, eh, Hi?

And to you the "news" wouldn't be that I was a dumbass making a serious mistake.

It would be "Guess what!? A cat is a dog! Who knew?"
georgeob1
 
  -3  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 10:55 am
@Builder,
I think the question related to continued operation on deficit spending. In this area the Federal government has options that states don't have; it has the power to set interest rates and control the money supply through the Federal reserve and. through its borrowing and spending policies, can indirectly control the value of the currency in which its debt is monetized. States have neither option.

Despite this both can get in trouble through excessive debt. Puerto Rico (though not a state) is a good example: Illinois is probably next. Its public employee pension fund is grossly underfunded and by the legal standards applicable to corporations would land the government managers in jail if they were subject tot he applicable laws.

The subject usually involves a great deal of hypocrisy on the part of politicians. The "resistance" Democrats said nothing about the doubling of our national debt that occurred under Obama and their governance. Their sudden conversion is remarkable and timely.

I hope all here enjoyed a happy Christmas
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 11:02 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
If you're tired of all the doom & gloom from the Resistance.
Aux armes citoyens!!!
hightor
 
  4  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 11:55 am
@layman,
If someone tells me that a particular dog is actually a cat and then a year later tells me that the cat is acually a dog I don't think that asking for clarification is at all unexpected. So I asked you, in good faith, what might have happened to cause the change. If you don't know, and apparently you don't, just say so.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 12:11 pm
@blatham,
that would be funny if it wasn't truly stupid
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 12:13 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
Not really or they wouldn't be going into default.

They're in default precisely because they can't meet their obligation to pay it back. They aren't receiving grants. The loans are issued with the understanding that they will be paid back with interest. States and municipalities can't run trillion dollar debts into the future the way the federal government can.


I'm having a hard time understanding your point.

States and municipalities don't need to run trillion dollar debts. Hundreds of millions suit them just fine.

As well, I imagine that China expects, at some point, to be paid back for what it's lent us. For now, the incredible interest payment we make are just peachy, but no one lends money with the expectation that it will never be paid back.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 12:13 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Orders are already coming in for hats for the January marchers Smile Knitters everywhere are smiling.
layman
 
  -2  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 12:15 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

If someone tells me that a particular dog is actually a cat and then a year later tells me that the cat is acually a dog I don't think that asking for clarification is at all unexpected. So I asked you, in good faith, what might have happened to cause the change. If you don't know, and apparently you don't, just say so.


Changed from what? The "amendment proposal?" What is it? What does it say? How has it changed? If you have some particular question you should at least specify what it is.

You mention Manafort, who is said to have been receiving large cash payments from Ukraine. Do you think Manafort being gone makes Trump MORE inclined to assist them, or something?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 12:16 pm
@hightor,
I bet it did happen. Her attempt at graciousness is a load of **** considering the things she said about W.

Who cares what the point of the article was?

Streisand is a hypocritical phony, and if refusing to believe she was sincere in her comments is graceless...so be it.


0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 12:20 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Orders are already coming in for hats for the January marchers Smile Knitters everywhere are smiling.


It will be amusing to see them all freeze their butts off in yet another ineffectual march.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 12:33 pm
@layman,
This "change" maybe?

#WORLD NEWSJUNE 20, 2017 / 9:50 AM / 6 MONTHS AGO

Quote:
Trump meets Ukraine's president, U.S. adds to Russia sanctions

- President Donald Trump met with Ukraine’s president on Tuesday and expressed support for a peaceful resolution to the conflict in eastern Ukraine but said nothing about Russia’s role, while the U.S. government added to sanctions over Moscow’s actions.

The sanctions target Ukrainian and Russian officials and companies that U.S. authorities accuse of helping Russia tighten its grip on the Crimean peninsula, a part of Ukraine annexed by Russia in 2014 in a move Western leaders denounced as illegal.

Trump sat down in the Oval Office with Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko for talks...Poroshenko called Trump “one of the most reliable supporters” and “strategic partners” for Ukraine."


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-usa/trump-meets-ukraines-president-u-s-adds-to-russia-sanctions-idUSKBN19B22M
hightor
 
  6  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 12:36 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
The "resistance" Democrats said nothing about the doubling of our national debt that occurred under Obama and their governance.

It wasn't ignored. Nor was it "doubled". But I agree with your statement here:
Quote:
The subject usually involves a great deal of hypocrisy on the part of politicians.

The debt grew considerably under Bush II, a lot of which can be blamed on his tax cuts and unfunded military adventures, and monumentally under Reagan due to the failure of his tax cuts to stimulate the economy. Democrats assail policies which increase the debt, and rightly, when those policies can't be shown to have worked in the past. Neither military expenditures nor tax cuts appear to be effective tactics to shrink the deficit. And interest on this debt is considerable.

Quote:
If you listen and watch conservative media - you'll see that the latest talking point is that "Obama's doubled the national debt during this presidency" They repeat it over and over again. It renders liberals speechless. Here's the proper response:

For starters, it's not true. The day Obama took office the debt was 10.626 trillion. It's now at 18.150 trillion. And while he has added 70.2% - it's not double. And it gets better. How much money has the federal gov't spent since he became president on ALL expenses related to the illegal and unfortunate decision to invade Iraq. I don't know the answer to this - but I would guess it's in the 1.5 - 2 trillion range. Subtract that from the 18.150 and you have one of the best stewardship's of the budget since Jimmy Carter.

Here's the best argument. When a conservative brings up the doubling of the debt - ask them if by doubling the debt would that automatically make them a terrible president. They'll say it does. And they'll say it with passion because they think that Obama is the only modern president to double the debt (even though this is complete lie). Then hit them with this. The day Ronald Reagan was sworn in - the national debt was 934 billion. The day he left office the debt was 2. 697 trillion. Almost TRIPLE. Bush 41 added over 80% and Bush 43 added 110%.

And speaking of Reagan - point out that when you blow up the federal budget by dramatically increasing defense spending and dramatically lowering taxes to the rich - you get the largest increase in deficit spending in the past 70 years. Does this sound familiar? Every republican now running for president wants to do the same.

Thom Hartmann Program
hightor
 
  4  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 12:41 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I'm having a hard time understanding your point.

Obviously. But it's not that profound; maybe you're overthinking it. I'm just pointing out the consequences of congress having the ability to run huge deficits. georgeob1 puts it succinctly in the first paragraph of his response to Builder above.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 12:55 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

The story about the "Ukraine Amendment" is from 2016, of course.

So what caused Trump to change his mind? He was pretty adamant that there was no Russian threat to Ukraine during the campaign .


The "amendment" Trump supported called for assistance to Ukraine. If Trump didn't think Russia was a threat, maybe it was because he actually believed Obama, eh?

Quote:
Obama Won’t Arm Ukraine Because He Led the Disarming of Ukraine

The president has resisted not only causing real pain to Russia’s economy but providing the Ukrainian military with the weapons it needs to defend its sovereign territory and defeat Putin’s thugs.

As a U.S. senator, Barack Obama won $48 million in federal funding to help Ukraine destroy thousands of tons of guns and ammunition – weapons which are now unavailable to the Ukrainian army as it faces down Russian President Vladimir Putin. Just seven months after his swearing-in, Obama traveled to Donetsk in Eastern Ukraine . [He] met in Kiev with President Victor Yushchenko, making the case that an existing Cooperative Threat Reduction Program covering the destruction of nuclear weapons should be expanded to include artillery, small arms, anti-aircraft weapons, and conventional ammunition of all kinds.

A press release from then-Senator Lugar’s office included then-Senator Obama’s puerile proclamation that eliminating Ukraine’s stocks of conventional weapons would ensure “the safety of the Ukrainian people and people around the world, by keeping them out of conflicts around the world.” Rearming Ukraine now would underscore how wrong he was. That political embarrassment is a big reason why he refuses to do what needs to be done.


http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/399214

Peace in our time, I tellzya!
hightor
 
  3  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 12:56 pm
@layman,
Well yeah, layman, that's a start.
Quote:
President Donald Trump met with Ukraine’s president on Tuesday and expressed support for a peaceful resolution to the conflict in eastern Ukraine but said nothing about Russia’s role

Look, everyone's aware of the sanctions and the prospective arms sales. I'm asking why Trump changed his position from the time of the convention last year. My guess is that he simply didn't know the whole story and was influenced by Manafort and the prospects of improved relations with Russia. He didn't sound particularly knowledgeable at the time:
Quote:
Donald J. Trump on Sunday offered a muddled explanation of his views about the 2014 annexation of Crimea by Russia and its continued efforts to undermine Ukraine’s control of other parts of the country, and he amplified his earlier suggestion that, if elected president, he might recognize Russia’s claim and end sanctions against it.

NYT
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 01:22 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:
If Trump didn't think Russia was a threat, maybe it was because he actually believed Obama, eh?

Yes, he always talks about Obama's good judgment and credibility. Confused

I don't really see the relevance though. In 2005 the proliferation of small arms and their sale to Islamic extremists was a big issue. Relations between Russia and Ukraine, never particularly warm, deteriorated seriously after 2008. We could discuss Obama's policies in regard to the growing dispute but it would derail the thread. Personally, I regret the eastward expansion of NATO and the effect it had on our relations with Russia. But no one asked my opinion at the time.

National Review wrote:
In August 2005, just seven months after his swearing-in, Obama traveled to Donetsk in Eastern Ukraine with then-Indiana Republican Senator Dick Lugar, touring a conventional weapons site. The two met in Kiev with President Victor Yushchenko, making the case that an existing Cooperative Threat Reduction Program covering the destruction of nuclear weapons should be expanded to include artillery, small arms, anti-aircraft weapons, and conventional ammunition of all kinds.

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -3  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 01:22 pm
@hightor,
You wrongfully ignore the economic conditions Reagan inherited from his hapless predecessor. We had the unhappy combination of a stagnant or contracting economy coupled with high inflation - "stagflation" was the term used then. Reagan ( aided by Paul Volker) broke the inflation and set in motion a period of extended economic growth that continued for a decade after he left office. Along the way he used military spending to break the back of an economically sclerotic Soviet Union, obsessed with security concerns. History has proved this to have been a pretty good trade.

Democrats historically are every bit as inclined to use national debt to buy the votes of susceptible voters. A cynic would find they merely target different groups. The vast majority of our real public debt involves entitlement spending programs enacted by Democrats. A very strong economic case can be made for the timeliness of reducing the built in disincentives in our tax system for domestic production of trade goods. Do you dispute that?
hightor
 
  5  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 01:33 pm
@georgeob1,
You wouldn't be ignoring the conditions Obama inherited from his hapless predecessor, would you?
Quote:
The vast majority of our real public debt involves entitlement spending programs enacted by Democrats.

True. But consider the economic consequences of discontinuing those programs. Do we really want a larger sick, hungry, and hopeless underclass than we already have?
Quote:
A very strong economic case can be made for the timeliness of reducing the built in disincentives in our tax system for domestic production of trade goods.

I'm opposed to economic nationalism but I do believe our tax system could be improved and ought to be reformed. I don't think the 2017 bill was an improvement or much of a reform.
Baldimo
 
  -4  
Wed 27 Dec, 2017 02:07 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
It wasn't ignored. Nor was it "doubled". But I agree with your statement here:

When Trump took office the debt was at $19.95 trillion, Obama was 1 trillion short of doubling the debt while he was in office. Posting figures from 2015 isn't really being honest about the entirety of Obama's 8 years in office.
Quote:
National debt — the numbers

According to figures published by the Treasury Department’s Bureau of Fiscal Services on the TreasuryDirect web site, the national debt was $19.84 trillion on 27 July 2017 (not 30 July, as stated by Truth Division. On 20 January, it was $19.95 trillion.

https://www.snopes.com/national-debt-trump/

Quote:
The debt grew considerably under Bush II

It doubled under 43 and the Dems never let us forget it as seem by your response to the claim, which is true, that Obama doubled what 43 doubled.

Quote:
and monumentally under Reagan due to the failure of his tax cuts to stimulate the economy.

That is not true in the least. Reagan saw twice the economic growth that Obama saw in his "recovery". If you loved the job Obama did, then you should also be very pleased with what Reagan did.
https://www.hudson.org/research/12714-economic-growth-by-president?ref=patrick.net

Thom Hartman... radio host? Would you accept anything written by Rush Limbaugh?
 

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