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monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
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hightor
 
  4  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 10:49 am
EPA Considers Allowing Bee-Killing Pesticide to Be Sprayed on 165 Million Acres of U.S. Farmland
Quote:
If the EPA grants Syngenta's wish, it will spur catastrophic declines of aquatic invertebrates and pollinator populations that are already in serious trouble," said Lori Ann Burd, director of the Center for Biological Diversity's environmental health program. "You know the pesticide-approval process is broken when the EPA announces it will consider expanding the use of this dangerous pesticide on the same day its own scientists reveal that the chemical kills birds and aquatic invertebrates."

(...)

"For years the EPA and pesticide companies bragged that by using treated seeds they were avoiding spraying insecticides, and despite the science showing that these treated seeds were deadly to birds, claimed that they were environmentally beneficial," said Burd. "But we can expect the Trump EPA to now ignore the risks to birds and bees and approve these ultra-toxic pesticides to be sprayed across hundreds of millions of U.S. acres."


EcoWatch
maporsche
 
  2  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 10:59 am
@Lash,
I'm a neoliberal. On the spectrum of politics I'm not sure what a neoliberal conservative would even be....

https://thosebastardsinwashington.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/9chambered-political-chart.jpg
hightor
 
  3  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 11:08 am
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.valuewalk.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F12%2FRichest-Politician-In-Every-State.png&f=1
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 11:38 am
@maporsche,
First I have to look up exactly what a neoliberal is vs. a liberal.

Quote:
The difference between modern neoliberalism and liberalism is that neoliberalism advocates an idealized "hands-off" free-market system while modern economic liberalism calls for government regulation to control the excesses of free-market capitalism. Modern liberalism, or the "Keynesian school" of economics, named for its main proponent John Maynard Keynes and differing from classical liberalism, developed in the aftermath of the 1930s failure of the free-market system known as the Great Depression. Neoliberalism, sometimes referred to as the "Chicago school" of economics and named after the University of Chicago, rose to prominence in response to the breakdown of the international money system and the fiscal contradictions viewed as inherent in the welfare system.


More at the source.

According to the definition, I am definitely a liberal. On the graph probably fall on the progressive side except for spying which I consider necessary if carried out in a lawful efficient way; also probably don't really fit into a progressive idea too much militarily.

I think these labels are silly.

glitterbag
 
  4  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 12:07 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

For someone living lifelong in a system with more than two parties in the parliament (and sometimes even in the government) it isn't so easy to understand. Loosing candidates are fast forgotten, the family of politicans (still) is private.

Besides that, we still aren't at the level of insults and slander, false accusations and suspicions of political opponents and their followers as is done in the USA (quite a bit of that would [still] be punishable here).



My country has lost its moral compass.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 12:17 pm
I was raised by my grandparents, who were conservative Democrats. They were politically active, too. My grandfather was the precinct committeeman. In terms of the narrow and warped American political spectrum, I have always been a conservative Democrat, although not in lock-step. I vote for Republicans if I consider them best qualified. In 1980, I worked for John Anderson because he was the only candidate who was making sense--he was a life-long Republican. Even though it was clear that he could not win, I continued to work for him to keep his message about the lack of policy on the part of Carter, and Ray-gun's bullshit economic policy which his running mate, George Bush, rightly described as "Voodoo economics." (That wsa, of course, before he got the Vice Presidential nod.) Ideologically, I'm actually an anarcho-syndicalist, but I won't go into that here, it's not germane. (Although you can read about it here.)

Using the definitions which Revelette has posted, I'm a modern liberal.
maporsche
 
  3  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 12:19 pm
@revelette1,
I'm closer progressive than I am libertarian on that 9 box chart I posted, but for sure in the neoliberal camp.

These labels are silly though. I don't normally get 9 candidates to choose from so I choose the 1 that has the best chance of winning that is closest to my views on issues that are important.
Lash
 
  -1  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 12:30 pm
@maporsche,
Neoliberal conservatism:

Neoliberalism calls for less regulation, small government, just like conservatism. It's business and economically oriented, and doesn't care about social equity and structural inequality, the same way conservatism doesn't. Neoliberalism, like conservatism, believes successes and failures are on the individual, not ever taking into consideration the playing field is not equal. Examples of behavior: Racial covenants, banks not lending to blacks and browns, Jim Crow, governments using tax payers money to subsidize large corporations with millions versus investing in more parks, police, better schools, infrastructure ... Neoliberalism, like conservatism, ignores this and blames the problems of our society on "people being lazy," when in reality our laws target the poor. It’s a system rigged to benefit those who have on the backs of those who don’t have.

maporsche
 
  5  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 12:34 pm
@Lash,
This neoliberal doesn't believe all that Lash.

That's a nice copy/paste job though. The source you stole it from shows that 60% of people there also disagree with you and this person. Of note, that only a small number of people voted. I'm sure the disagreement is much greater than 60%.

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-neoliberalism-conservative
maporsche
 
  4  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 12:42 pm
Neoliberal. (maximum social freedom, moderate economic control)

By contrast, we have the middle-economics and social freedom of the position in between Progressive and Libertarian. To oppose the neoconservatives I have called them the Neo-Liberals, but they might also be called “Fair Market” liberals, ‘Liberaltarians’ or, after Clinton’s model, the 3rd Way.

They are socially tolerant or progressive, and argue for a market fair to both consumers and businesses. Someone in this realm might believe the following: governments should not necessarily bail out failing companies, but should regulate them for environmental or fairness practices; taxes ought to be cut or even flattened but should not favor the rich; the government might be better suited to operate at a smaller level, but they prefer to cut the military rather than infrastructure; the debt ceiling is unfortunate but probably necessary; national health care should be considered an option, but not mandated; abortion should be legal; gay marriage should be legal; religion should have no place in government; civil liberties and privacy should always be prioritized over national security; immigration should be fair.

Generally Neoliberals are motivated to vote more by their social stances than their economic ones.

Neoliberals are represented by a small wing of the Democratic party. In addition, some northern Republicans like Lincoln Chafee and Michael Bloomberg fit this description.


https://thosebastardsinwashington.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/beyond-left-and-right-part-1/
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 12:51 pm
@Setanta,
Well, we got in Germany the "social market economy", a neoliberal theory in the original sense, already since 70 years, and it's even enshrined in our constitution.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 12:57 pm
@revelette1,
Your quote provides excellent background and a good definition of "neoliberalism". It's the ideology of Milton Friedman, of economic deregulation. And yes, it's considered a rightist ideology.
roger
 
  2  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 01:00 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

Neoliberal. (maximum social freedom, moderate economic control)


Thanks for explaining.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 01:23 pm
@maporsche,
I'm wondering if your definition of "neoliberal" isn't a bit too, well, liberal, as the term was coined by Hayek and von Mises and connotes something more like Milton Friedman than 3rd Way Clintonism which seems much more friendly to state intervention and less enamored of the "free market".
George Scialabba wrote:


I’d say neoliberalism is essentially the extension of market dominance to all spheres of social life, fostered and enforced by the state. In economic policy, this means deregulation and privatization. In culture, it means untrammeled marketing and the commoditization of everyday life, including the intimate sphere. In law, it means consumer sovereignty, non-discrimination (which is after all economically irrational), and a restrictive conception of the public interest. In education, it means the replacement of public by private (i.e., business) support for schools, universities, and research, with a concomitant shift of influence over curriculum and research topics. In civil society, it means private control over the media and private funding of political parties, with the resultant control of both by business. In international relations, it means investor rights agreements masquerading as “free trade” and constraining the rights of governments to protect their own workers, environments, and currencies.


Neoliberalism – the ideology at the root of all our problems
Quote:
Financial meltdown, environmental disaster and even the rise of Donald Trump – neoliberalism has played its part in them all. Why has the left failed to come up with an alternative?

George Monbiot

As in the last discussion specifically about this term, I think it is used in more than one sense. When maporsche declares himself a "neoliberal" I automatically apply a different definition to the term than I would if georgeob1 or oralloy described themselves that way.
maporsche
 
  3  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 01:49 pm
@hightor,
I imagine that any term/person/policy can look like a many things from differing points of view (especially European ones, like those you referenced).

That's the downside of labels and especially the downside of denigrating individuals because of whatever group they identify with or you (general you) try to place them into.
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  3  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 01:56 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
I'm wondering if your definition of "neoliberal" isn't a bit too, well, liberal, as the term was coined by Hayek and von Mises and connotes something more like Milton Friedman

Margaret Thatcher was accurately described as "an old-fashioned liberal of the Manchester school".
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 02:10 pm
@centrox,
The term "Manchesterism" for followers of the Manchester School was invented by Ferdinand Lassalle, one of the founders of German Social-Democracy. It was an abusive term.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 03:23 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

I'm wondering if your definition of "neoliberal" isn't a bit too, well, liberal,


in conversation here, neoliberal means conservative. moderately conservative socially, far right conservative economically. verging on right-side libertarianism
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  4  
Wed 20 Dec, 2017 03:24 pm
@hightor,
well **** that bullshit
0 Replies
 
 

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