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monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
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blatham
 
  3  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 06:49 pm
@ehBeth,
If Republicans can keep women, young people, the independents and colored people from voting, they'll do fairly well.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 06:50 pm
@BillW,
Yes. Good links Bill.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 06:57 pm
Murdoch just opened his mouth on the subject of sexual harassment and asault etc at Fox and Fox females are very unhappy.
Huff Po

WP
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 07:03 pm
This is the same Trump lawyer who doesn't agree with the Meuller grand jury accessing transition emails.

Quote:
With no apparent sarcasm, an Arizona attorney on Sunday proposed that the late Justice Antonin Scalia’s votes in cases pending before the Supreme Court should still count even though he died before the court issued its rulings.

“There’s no Ouija board required to figure out how Justice Scalia would vote on these things, he’s already voted,” attorney Kory Langhofer said during a discussion on Phoenix, Arizona, television station KPNX. “We’re at the second-to-last step in how these cases unfold when Justice Scalia died.”
TPM

So he seems like an admirable fellow.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 07:22 pm
Quote:
The focus of this article is on the legal impact of the last phrase of the Fourth Amendment, the requirement that search warrant not be “general” warrants authorizing “fishing expeditions” into anything and everything, but instead particularly describe, with specificity, “the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

A federal appeals court held that a warrant which permits a general search and seizure of all other evidence of criminal activity,‟is a general warrant prohibited by the Fourth Amendment.”

Lack of specificity was similarly a problem in Williams v. County of Santa Barbara, #00-11122, 272 F. Supp. 2d 995 (C.D. Cal. 2003), ruling that warrants for the search of a residence were not supported by probable cause because the affidavit provided no basis to support the belief that evidence of crime would be found there and broadly sought “every conceivable kind of document” relating to the residents‟ personal and business financial activities."

See Owens Ex Rel. Owens v. Lott, # 03-1194, 372 F.3d 267 (4th Cir. 2004), holding that a search warrant for a residence which authorized a search of “all persons” present for drugs was not adequately supported by detailed information to support probable cause to believe that all occupants of the premises were involved in criminal activity.


http://www.aele.org/law/2010all01/2010-1MLJ101.pdf

Those are just a few brief excerpts from a scholarly article discussing what constitutes a "reasonable" search under the 4th amendment.

As I said before, the FBI has no right to seize every document you possess, or "search" every conversation you ever had, out of mere curiosity.

In this case the FBI did not even have a search warrant to begin with. But, if they did, they could only have gotten one with credible evidence of a crime, AND, even then, the scope of the permissible search would have to be strictly limited for it to be valid.

The GSA/FBI's attempt to circumvent and obliterate these requirements for a reasonable search and/or seizure cannot override the constitution itself, sorry cheese-eaters.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 07:24 pm
https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2011/07/02/Obituaries/Images/Bradlee77.JPG?uuid=u9a_EqTYEeCeqoaSoXGAGA
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 07:56 pm
@layman,
I doubt they would have made the claim of a signed agreement if they didn't have proof of the signed agreement. Since they have a signed agreement, yes, they can turn over records at their own discretion. The GPS says there was no assurances between the transition and the GPS and unless there was something in writing, I don't see how an unproved assurance claim trumps a signed agreement.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 08:06 pm
@revelette1,
Doesn't even matter what they signed.

Anyone over the age of 12 and under 70 should understand that emails better not contain anything you don't want to share.
layman
 
  -4  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 08:11 pm
Quote:
"When we have obtained emails in the course of our ongoing criminal investigation, we have secured either the account owner's consent or appropriate criminal process," Carr said.


Let's parse this claim, eh?

1. They claim to be conducting a "criminal investigation," which seeks evidence of a crime.

2. The was no warrant sought or issued when the FBI extracted all emails of every kind pertaining to the Trump transition team. Therefore any reference to the "appropriate criminal process" does not, and cannot, apply here.

3. That leaves "the account owner's consent" as the purported basis for their fishing expedition.

I'll go back to the landlord/tenant analogy I made previously. I may be, as a landlord, the owner of public record of a particular house. But that does NOT give me (or anyone else) the right to either (a) search the property to my heart's content or (b) give permission to law enforcement officials to do so when the use of the property has been given to a tenant. The tenant's belongings are not mine, even if the real estate itself is. HIS consent is required, not mine.

Any claim that the GSA "owns" the records of private, non-governmental persons just because they may "own" the equipment the records are contained in is absolutely bogus. Likewise, the frivolous claim that only the consent of the "account owner" is required to confiscate the private communications of persons allowed to use that account is ridiculous.

Trump's attorneys are absolutely correct when they claim that the emails belong to (are "owned by") their creators and NOT by the GSA. The GSA has no authority to "consent" to the FBI's fishing expedition. That they did so puts them at jeopardy of legal liability.

I will now await the onslaught of cheese-eaters who will insist that this kind of soviet-state invasion of privacy is both legal and desirable.

layman
 
  -4  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 08:21 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

I doubt they would have made the claim of a signed agreement if they didn't have proof of the signed agreement. Since they have a signed agreement, yes, they can turn over records at their own discretion. The GPS says there was no assurances between the transition and the GPS and unless there was something in writing, I don't see how an unproved assurance claim trumps a signed agreement.


I'll repeat what I said to you already.

1) What you sign is not controlling.
2) The "meaning" of what you sign is, in any event, subject to interpretation, in context, and that can only be ascertained by reading the document, not by what someone with a dog in the fight "says" it means.
3) Constitutional rights can NEVER be indirectly waived by implication. One can only forfeit a constitutional right with full and complete understanding of the right they are waiving and knowledge of the fact that they are waiving it.

Do you think that any such agreement, assuming one was signed, gives the FBI the right to demand information from the GSA, relevant or not? Even assuming (a bad assumption) that the CSA had the unrestricted right to fill newspaper headlines with information about your personal affairs because you "signed an agreement," that would not give the FBI the right to demand it from them without probable cause.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -4  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 08:49 pm
@layman,
Quote:
I may be, as a landlord, the owner of public record of a particular house. But that does NOT give me (or anyone else) the right to either (a) search the property to my heart's content or (b) give permission to law enforcement officials to do so when the use of the property has been given to a tenant. The tenant's belongings are not mine, even if the real estate itself is. HIS consent is required, not mine.


Any prosecutor who went into court trying to claim that a search was consensual, and therefore reasonable by constitutional standards, because a landlord gave a cop permission to search the tenant's possessions would be laughed out of court, and perhaps disbarred for incompetence.

If the FBI wants to claim that they had the GSA's consent, and therefore had Trump (et al)'s consent, to plunder Trump's belongings, they will be in no better position.

And it wouldn't matter, in the least, if the lease gave the landlord the right to "inspect" the property, because:

1. Such permission would not be given for the purpose of allowing the landlord to read their emails and
2. The police could not, in any event, use a private citizen to do a search they themselves would be prohibited from doing.

A private citizen can, and should, report his knowledge of criminal activity to police, but the police cannot conspire with him to go looking for it without a warrant. They can put a "wire" on an informant, but they can't use any evidence obtained that way unless they had a pre-existing warrant to "search" the ensuing conversation.

Nice try, cheese-eaters.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -2  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 09:12 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
Doesn't even matter what they signed.

Anyone over the age of 12 and under 70 should understand that emails better not contain anything you don't want to share.


Yeah, and any person with knowledge should never expect NOT to be shot 5 times in the back when they are crawling toward police under command. It happens, and everyone should therefore expect it to happen to them.

And, if you expect it, then fulfilling your expectations could never be illegal, right?

You should just understand that you better not obey police commands unless you want to get shot. Of course, they'll shoot you for that, too, but, still...

It's all a matter of what you "understand," plain and simple. Nothing else "even matters."
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  3  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 09:16 pm
@revelette1,
rev, this is just more guilty diversionary tactics devised by corrupt people. Pure and simple - lock 'em up!
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  4  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 09:32 pm
The GSA manages all government buildings, supplies, equipment, paper, pens and pencils. Every agency has it's own budget and facility offices, everything can be audited by the GSA. What they are trying to avoid is fraud and abuse, they don't catch everything but they are obliged to investigate if a potential misdeed is being perpetrated. Virtually EVERYTHING you write or send on government owned equipment can be viewed. It doesn't matter if it's official memo's, personnel evaluations, sending office gossip, or the schedule you prefer when you wish to pick your nose. It doesn't belong to you, it belongs to the government. When you begin federal employment, be it transition team,or routine government work, it is no longer private.
layman
 
  -3  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 09:40 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

Virtually EVERYTHING you write or send on government owned equipment can be viewed....t doesn't matter if it's official memo's, personnel evaluations, sending office gossip, or the schedule you prefer when you wish to pick your nose. It doesn't belong to you, it belongs to the government. When you begin federal employment, be it transition team,or routine government work, it is no longer private.


That doesn't even begin to address the questions raised by what the FBI did and it is grotesquely wrong, to begin with.

1. They do not OWN your property, ESPECIALLY when you're not even a government employee on a government paycheck performing official government duties. I do not own all my tenant's possessions just because I hold title to the property I rented to him.

2. Giving someone the right to "audit" your use of their equipment for "fraud" does NOT serve to waive your constitutional rights of privacy and to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures.

3. Being on a candidate's "transition team" does NOT make someone a federal employee, as you claim. The law requires the GSA to provide equipment, office space, etc., to transition teams. It does NOT make those people "employees of the government."

Nice try, cheese-eater.

Leave it to a commie-ass cheese-eater to argue that only the government can own things, and that a private citizen has no property rights, eh?
glitterbag
 
  4  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 09:49 pm
@layman,
Wow, you are such a big dope.
layman
 
  -3  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 09:52 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

Wow, you are such a big dope.


Rave on, cheese-eater.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  -3  
Sun 17 Dec, 2017 09:57 pm
@glitterbag,
It's really no surprise that commies condone, desire, and ratify a totalitarian "Big Brother" government to run things, eh?
0 Replies
 
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