192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 05:31 am
Quote:
Kurt Eichenwald‏Verified account
@kurteichenwald
For the MAGA guys who don’t understand: the people handwriting the tax bill don’t give a damn about them or this country. They are $1,000 Gucci shoe-wearing lobbyists who get pols to sell us all out, again and again, because you LET THEM by falling for the GOP con.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 05:31 am
@Builder,
Quote:
It's called humour...

Weakest excuse ever.
blatham
 
  4  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 05:38 am
Quote:
Jamelle Bouie‏Verified account
@jbouie
is there a word for the brazen corruption and dishonesty it takes to run on “drain the swamp” and then literally hand a pen to lobbyists to write a trillion dollar giveaway to plutocrats and their useless failsons?
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 05:44 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Of course Lauer and Weinstein belong to your tribe. The difference is that they can't preserve abortion rights

The difference is the severity and believability of the charges.
Quote:
It's entirely possible for a man to live a long and rich life without imposing his lust on women. I've done it and so, I'm sure, have a great many other men.

Sure it's possible. Admirable even. But I'm surprised that any middle-aged adult would actually be so incensed that the world doesn't conform to your personal standards.
Setanta
 
  3  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 06:14 am
@oralloy,
It is possible that Pence might survive the downfall of Plump initially, of course. But he was the head of the transition team--and the evidence from Flynn is that he knew about the Russian dealings last December. It is also possible that he could go down with his master. You only see what you want to see, though.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 06:44 am
Regarding the Tillerson-to-be-replaced story which was supposedly leaked by a senior official in the administration. I wonder if these sorts of stories are being purposely leaked to inspire doubt as to the truthfulness and reliability of the MSM? I know, it sounds a little paranoid, but as they say, "as Maine goes so goes the nation".
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 06:54 am
@hightor,
I think that people who don’t uphold protection of children and women from unwanted sexual aggression are complicit in the predation undercurrent that feeds abuse.

The term normalize has been used a lot during Trump’s tenure. It fits here.

If you think strong condemnation of sexual predators is just some middle-aged guy’s rigid personal standard, you are aiding the sexual predation phenomenon. Similar views about this subject on this thread are among the worst things I’ve seen at A2K.

We engage each other in conversation about politics, events, and even if we wildly disagree and argue, we develop some idea of the basic humanity of other members.

This conversation has been a horrible education for me.
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 06:59 am
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/icelands-crowd-sourced-constitution-hope-for-disillusioned-voters-everywhere-67803

Iceland’s revolution information is making the rounds on social media.

This tax code written by lobbyists and donors attacking the middle class is hopefully the last straw fit a lot of people. Don’t be distracted, thinking replacing Trump will solve the problem. It won’t touch the problem.

I think it’s time to take large-scale action.
hightor
 
  2  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 07:21 am
@Lash,
Quote:
If you think strong condemnation of sexual predators is just some middle-aged guy’s rigid personal standard, you are aiding the sexual predation phenomenon.

It's not the middle-aged guy’s rigid personal standard which I find curious, it's the idea that everyone else is expected to believe the same thing. A large number of people around the world don't adhere to these commonly accepted standards of behavior. That's why we have crime. Sure, one can and should condemn criminal behavior of any and all kinds. But my condemnation of bribery, shoplifting, or premeditated acts of murder doesn't mean that I'm surprised that these things occur. Thousands of years of history lead us to expect the worst even as we try to do our best.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 07:24 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Iceland’s revolution information is making the rounds on social media.
The quoted article is more than one year old - the situation in Iceland has changed quote a lot since then (now a PM, who is chairwoman of the Left-Green Movement as PM, in a coalition government with the conservative Independence Party and the center-right Progressive Party).
The quoted Pirate Party, which entered the election as the Althing's third largest party, lost four seats and was reduced to six seats.

But you're certainly correct that something was making rounds, in media as well as in social media: namely the reason for this new election ("honour restored" for a multiple rapist and paedophile).
hightor
 
  3  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 07:38 am
@Lash,
Quote:
I think it’s time to take large-scale action.

What did you have in mind? Something like BLM or the "Occupy" movement"? Or something more like "teabagging" or a selective product boycott? The trouble with large-scale action is that it never seems to be large enough. Especially when so many people actually support anything their party does and believe everything it tells them.
blatham
 
  4  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 07:40 am
@hightor,
Quote:
Regarding the Tillerson-to-be-replaced story which was supposedly leaked by a senior official in the administration. I wonder if these sorts of stories are being purposely leaked to inspire doubt as to the truthfulness and reliability of the MSM? I know, it sounds a little paranoid, but
Not paranoid in the least. I advanced this idea a couple of days ago because the right in America has been working very diligently for decades to cast doubt on all independent media (see Eric Alterman's "What Liberal Media"). This particular administration is far and away the worst and is the culmination of what came before. That they wouldn't use such an obvious device is not credible.
hightor
 
  2  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 07:53 am
Quote:
As accusations of sexual misconduct against famous men accumulate, the sheer quantity of dispiriting news is starting to create a confusing blur. The task of responding to sexual harassment and assault feels simultaneously more urgent and more daunting than ever.

(...)

There is a temptation to simplify matters by viewing all harassers and their offenses as equally awful, or, alternatively, as equally misunderstood. But to be fair and effective, any system needs to make distinctions: to sort Harvey Weinstein from Roy Moore; and Louis C.K. and Matt Lauer from Al Franken.

(...)

As more men are tarred as bad actors, and once-cherished public figures become pariahs, imposing responsibility can feel uncomfortable, even alarming.

People worry that we are sliding down a slippery slope to neo-puritanism, or in the throes of a witch hunt for sexual impropriety. Perhaps it will turn out that we are. But social science research suggests that this discomfort is a natural consequence of shifting social norms, not necessarily a sign that the changes are going too far.

(...)

Meanwhile, the old norms of gender roles and hierarchies have not disappeared, and may conflict with new demands for accountability. There is no safe harbor of conformity to be had.

It would be convenient if doing the right thing were easy. But bringing long-hidden harms to the surface cannot help disturbing the status quo. Accounting for years of wrongdoing is costly, and dismantling hierarchies that fostered harm can lead, in the short term, to chaos. Now society must decide how many of those costs it is willing to bear.


NYT
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 07:53 am
@blatham,
That vid you posted of the WP reporter interviewing the phony Moore accuser is a prime example of the lengths these dirt bags will go to to try to discredit news media. Of course, it also true that there really is no left-wing news media. Liberal perhaps, but calling it left-wing and characterizing the so-called main stream media as left-wing is just another stunt in the disinformation campaign which goes back to at least the early 1990s.
Lash
 
  2  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 08:20 am
@hightor,
A big change like Iceland’s
—————————————

https://theconversation.com/amp/icelands-crowd-sourced-constitution-hope-for-disillusioned-voters-everywhere-67803

Western democracies are in turmoil. From Brexit to Donald Trump, to a general lack of trust in politics, disillusioned voters are expressing their frustration in strange ways. In Iceland, they are taking a more proactive, hopeful approach – and it’s a lesson to the rest of the world. It looks as though a crowd-sourced constitution, developed in 2012, could finally be about to make its way through parliament.

The document – the result of four months of consultation – was approved by a two-thirds majority in a national referendum but was ultimately rejected by the government of the time. It includes clauses on environmental protection, puts international human rights law and the rights of refugees and migrants front and centre, and proposes redistributing the fruits of Iceland’s natural resources – notably fishing.

The Pirate Party has made getting the constitution through parliament a priority. And a pre-election agreement between five parties to make that happen within two years suggests a strong commitment on almost every side.

As important as the content is how the constitution was produced. The participatory nature of its writing sets it apart from other similar documents. The soul-searching prompted by the economic crash offered a chance to reassess what Icelandic society stands for and provides the perfect moment to change the way the country operates. This existential reimagining is the heart of the constitution and cannot be underestimated.
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 08:24 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I’m aware of when it happened, but not aware of the effect. I’ll be reading a lot more about contemporary revolutions.

I recall the women’s strike in another Scandinavian country...
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 08:31 am
@Lash,
I’d like a general strike, a day off when we descend on Washington demanding lobbyists out of the process, people speaking against corruption, and conversations leading to voting out incumbents, talking about local candidates to replace the pieces of **** who’ve taken over our government.

Change. Rejection of the status quo.

A legitimate revolution.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 08:41 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I’m aware of when it happened, but not aware of the effect.
For those, who aren't aware: it happened 2004. And the effect is reasoned in the Icelandic legal system (> certain civil rights can be restored, from five years after serving their sentence if there are three letters of recommendation from persons of good character who know the individual).
Lash wrote:
I recall the women’s strike in another Scandinavian country...

Iceland is a "Nordic" country, the three Scandinavian countries are Norway, Sweden and Denmark.
I'm not aware that similar happened there - could you educate me about what you mean here?
izzythepush
 
  3  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 08:50 am
@Lash,
Might be an idea to check out the facts.

Quote:
The Icelandic Prime Minister has called a snap parliamentary election following allegations his party covered up a child sex abuse scandal involving his father.

Bright Future, one of the three parties in his coalition government, which was formed just nine months ago, announced they were withdrawing from the government due to a "breach of trust" after Bjarni Benediktsson reportedly tried to cover up allegations that his father helped to get a convicted paedophile's "honour restored" – a legal term which allowed him to apply for certain jobs.

Speaking to reporters, Mr Benediktsson said: "We have lost the majority and I don't see anything that indicates we can regain that... I am calling an election."


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iceland-prime-minister-snap-election-child-molesters-scandal-bjarni-benediktsson-a7949466.html<br /> <br />
I don't think allowing paedophiles to have their records expunged is a good thing.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 2 Dec, 2017 09:11 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
In Iceland criminals can apply for a full pardon five years after they have served their sentence. An applicant for pardon must present letters from two "respected and well known people" vouching for their changed and good character. The pardon application is approved by the Ministry of the Interior, then reviewed by a parliamentary committee and finally signed by the President of Iceland.

The case of two of Iceland's most notorious child molesters who received a full pardon this summer has rattled Icelandic society. The Icelandic public and media have spent much of summer discussing the two cases and the horrifying world of violence and abuse they revealed.
Source, and more background information.

As far as I could find out, "restored honour [in Icelandic "Uppreist æru"] is a clause in the penal laws of Iceland dating from 1940.
Danish laws at the time on a clause to restore a persons honour form the prototype for the Icelandic law. At the beginning, restored honour was only used to give convicted criminals the right to vote again, something which is not valid anymore.
Restored honour does not clear a person's criminal record, but it can restore former civil rights to that person, such as rights to work as a lawyer.

To apply for restored honour, a person has to apply and have three letters of recommendation. These are reviewed by the Ministry of Justice and then signed by the President.

According to the 84th clause in the general penal laws an individual gets all former rights restored automatically when 5 years have passed since that person served their sentence. However, if the offence was of a nature which is considered disgraceful by the general public, this person has to apply for this legal procedure called restored honour.
The full legal clause >here< (in Icelandic).
 

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