192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  5  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 10:01 am
@Lash,
Quote:

You have no argument, so you’ve been reduced to nothing more than name-calling when you’re faced with inconvenient truths.


I mean, I think it's pretty inaccurate to say that Blatham has 'no argument' here, not to mention myself and others.

As for Hedges, you should have added this part from his piece:

Quote:
My show on RT America,


RT (Russia Today) is literally a propaganda mouthpiece of the Russian government. You're quoting a guy who works for the Russian government, who is defending the Russians and attacking America for investigating their cyber-warfare against us.

That last bit, by the way, is the offical US government position:

http://www.newsweek.com/russia-committed-act-war-election-interference-nikki-haley-says-688518

Quote:
U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley said on Thursday that Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential constituted "warfare," thus offering a far stronger rebuke of President Vladimir Putin's dubious activities than her boss, President Donald Trump.

"Don't interfere in our elections," Haley said firmly to Putin's Russia while speaking at the Spirit of Liberty conference held by the George W. Bush Institute in New York City. "We have to be so hard on this and we have to hold them accountable."

She added: "When a country can come interfere in another country’s elections, that is warfare. It really is, because you're making sure that the democracy shifts from what the people want. This is [Russia's] weapon of choice and we have to make sure we get in front of it."


So, you can't credibly claim that this is a partisan issue any longer, isn't that correct?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  7  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 10:04 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Truthdig is brilliant. When did you turncoat on progressive politics? I used to think you were such a lefty. You never were though, were you?


On the contrary, I'm an actual leftist instead of a fake one. I say that with confidence, because I ask questions like 'how are we going to get from where we're at today, to where I'd like us to be as a society?' The answers show the hollow nature of the demands of so-called 'Progressives' who have ideas about where they'd like society to be, but no real plan on how to transition there, let alone on how to convince others that this is the place our society should be in. It is an attitude and position of seriousness, as opposed to the fundamentally juvenile views of many far-leftists today, who don't seem to put much thought into how to achieve their goals, other than to complain loudly about them and try and berate people into agreement.

Too many people allowed themselves to be boxed into a position of ideological extremism in the last election, in large part encouraged to do so by... you guessed it, Russian trolls online, who posed as the famous 'Bernie Bros' and used incendiary and absolutist rhetoric to constantly attack Clinton from the 'left' and to whip up reliable Democratic voters against her. And you guys just swallowed it whole, they probably couldn't have been happier with themselves.

Cycloptichorn
Lash
 
  -1  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 11:01 am
@Cycloptichorn,
You might remember Pelosi, Schumer et al (Hillary too) saying single payer would never happen. They didn’t feel pressured to change their minds or rhetoric until Bernie’s rise.

They wouldn’t even talk about $15. hr until Bernie.

Changes are being made—despite roadblocks by Republicans and Democrats.

I’d have thought you’d be behind this wave for change instead of supporting corporate stooges.

Our demands are legitimate, and congress members need to be backed up against a wall for legitimate answers on how they vote, why, and where they get their money.

I have deep desires about my country too. I just don’t want anybody to get a pass on corruption.

Russia didn’t create this problem. Our elected officials did.
Lash
 
  -1  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 11:04 am
I think Russia’s dabbling is no more than usual, and no more than ours.

Our country is in complete disarray, and we’re casting for a scapegoat.
Cycloptichorn
 
  6  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 11:15 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

You might remember Pelosi, Schumer et al (Hillary too) saying single payer would never happen. They didn’t feel pressured to change their minds or rhetoric until Bernie’s rise.


It's still never going to happen, and shouldn't. Single-Payer isn't the best model for us out there, nor is it some sort of panacea that will solve all of our healthcare problems. This is also what I'm talking about WRT the disconnect between our current society and the preferred one; the process of moving from where we are today, to a fully single-payer HC society, would mean massive disruptions to many industries and huge job losses for many states. This makes it really difficult to envision happening, and the proponents of single-payer avoid discussing this at all costs.

Quote:
They wouldn’t even talk about $15. hr until Bernie.


Once again, I'm not entirely sure that a national minimum wage of $15 is really a great idea. I'll give you this one though because he really popularized the idea.

Quote:
Changes are being made—despite roadblocks by Republicans and Democrats.


Oh, really? Which changes have been made? I see a lot of talk... but not much actual changes occurring. Maybe I'm wrong tho so go ahead and point out the actual legislation that's passed that improves things in ways that Bernie is proposing.

Quote:
I’d have thought you’d be behind this wave for change instead of supporting corporate stooges.

Our demands are legitimate, and congress members need to be backed up against a wall for legitimate answers on how they vote, why, and where they get their money.


I only get behind ideas and plans that are well thought-out. Both of the things you've specifically mentioned are poorly thought out, from both a policy and a political process perspective. And supporters of most of the very far-left positions are really reluctant to ever discuss that fact. It's not enough to have an idea, even a good one; you have to have a workable plan to make that idea reality, and y'all are completely missing that right now. Bernie certainly had no workable plan to get any of his proposals from the last election passed in Congress, and it showed.

Quote:
I have deep desires about my country too. I just don’t want anybody to get a pass on corruption.

Russia didn’t create this problem. Our elected officials did.


Russia took advantage of our divisions, and used the anonymous nature of the online discussion sphere to heighten those divisions. And y'all just eat it up left and right, because there's nothing a highly partisan person wants to hear more than people agreeing with them and urging them to be even more partisan and extreme than they used to be.

Cycloptichorn
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 11:19 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I think Russia’s dabbling is no more than usual, and no more than ours.

Bill Clinton directly helped Tony Blair and Ehud Barak win elections in their respective countries.

Barack Obama tried to get Netanyahu defeated in Israel's elections but failed.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 11:25 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
It's still never going to happen, and shouldn't. Single-Payer isn't the best model for us out there, nor is it some sort of panacea that will solve all of our healthcare problems. This is also what I'm talking about WRT the disconnect between our current society and the preferred one; the process of moving from where we are today, to a fully single-payer HC society, would mean massive disruptions to many industries and huge job losses for many states. This makes it really difficult to envision happening, and the proponents of single-payer avoid discussing this at all costs.

I've found that many proponents of single payer don't even know what the term means. Although I've also talked with plenty of proponents who do understand it.

Your post is intriguing. What do you think is the best ultimate solution for American health care? The Obamacare exchanges with better regulation of the insurance companies? Or something else?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 11:29 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Bill Clinton directly helped Tony Blair and Ehud Barak win elections in their respective countries.
Are you referring to Philip Gould, who advised Blair on public opinion, and Stan Greenberg, who did the same job for Clinton?

And how did Clinton help Blair?
Cycloptichorn
 
  5  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 11:32 am
@oralloy,
I personally would like to see a German-style model of health care: universal and guaranteed access with many different regulated options for consumers. The wealthy can purchase additional insurance from a variety of different companies, and pretty much any citizen can get service from any provider in the country (no 'out of network' bullshit there). This is a good compromise between the desire for coverage for everyone, and the desire for competition to keep prices down.

Cycloptichorn
oralloy
 
  -4  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 11:49 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Are you referring to Philip Gould, who advised Blair on public opinion, and Stan Greenberg, who did the same job for Clinton?

And how did Clinton help Blair?

It could be those guys. If I ever heard their names, I've long since forgotten them.


Walter Hinteler wrote:
And how did Clinton help Blair?

I remember news reports during the respective elections that people who ran Clinton's campaign were loaned out to run (or help run) campaigns for Tony Blair and Ehud Barak.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 11:55 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I personally would like to see a German-style model of health care: universal and guaranteed access with many different regulated options for consumers. The wealthy can purchase additional insurance from a variety of different companies, and pretty much any citizen can get service from any provider in the country (no 'out of network' bullshit there). This is a good compromise between the desire for coverage for everyone, and the desire for competition to keep prices down.

I like the German model too. I think the best way to get there is to improve the Obamacare exchanges and keep improving them.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 12:37 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
I remember news reports during the respective elections that people who ran Clinton's campaign were loaned out to run (or help run) campaigns for Tony Blair ....
I've been doing that as well - okay, not in Tony Blair's constituency, and not on loan from Clinton.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 12:40 pm
Quote:
The White House says President Donald Trump has sent a personal cheque to a dead soldier's family after they said he had not kept his promise to do so.
The father of a soldier killed in Afghanistan said Mr Trump offered $25,000 (£19,000) of his own money during a June phone call.
The White House said it was "disgusting" that the media would exploit the issue.
The dispute came as Mr Trump denied being insensitive to a war widow.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41683708
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  4  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 01:00 pm
George W. Bush:
Bigotry and white supremacy are 'blasphemy' against the American creed


Quote:
Former President George W. Bush condemned bigotry and white supremacy Thursday morning while endorsing policies that run counter to those supported by President Donald Trump.

"Our identity as a nation, unlike other nations, is not determined by geography or ethnicity, by soil or blood. ... This means that people from every race, religion, ethnicity can be full and equally American," he said during remarks at the George W. Bush Institute in New York City. "It means that bigotry and white supremacy, in any form, is blasphemy against the American creed."

He added that "bigotry seems emboldened," though he didn't explain why.

"We've seen our discourse degraded by casual cruelty," Bush said, adding, "Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions, forgetting the image of God we should see in each other."

Bush didn't mention Trump during his remarks, but in his recommendations to strengthen American democracy, he said US institutions must "step up" and "we need to recall and recover our own identity."

He brought up growing concerns over misinformation, saying politics seems "more vulnerable to conspiracy theories and outright fabrication."

The 43rd president also addressed Russian influence on the United States.

"The Russian government has made a project of turning Americans against each other," he said, adding that while Russian interference will not be successful, "foreign aggressions, including cyberattacks, disinformation and financial influence, should never be downplayed or tolerated."

Bush, who left the presidential section of his ballot blank instead of voting for Trump, said the United States has seen "nationalism distort into nativism," later adding that "we cannot wish globalization away."

The former president also addressed concerns over bulling among American leaders.

"Bullying and prejudice in our public life sets a national tone, provides permission for cruelty and bigotry, and compromises the moral education of children, the only way to pass along civic values is to first live up to them," he said.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/george-w-bush-bigotry-and-white-supremacy-are-blasphemy-against-the-american-creed/ar-AAtJnL7
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 01:13 pm
@Real Music,
Russian scrutinised for ties to Trump investigated in Monaco
Quote:

[...]
The development comes as Rybolovlev, who paid Donald Trump $95m for a beachfront property in Florida in 2008, has caught the attention of congressional and federal investigators in the US who are examining alleged dealings between Russian operatives and members of Trump’s inner circle.

The allegations in Monaco against the Russian tycoon, who made his fortune as a fertiliser magnate, are unrelated to the ongoing federal investigation in the US into whether or not the Kremlin colluded with the Trump campaign to influence the outcome of the 2016 election.
[...]
Rybolovlev is at the centre of attention in the US because of the ongoing investigation by the special prosecutor, Robert Mueller, into possible links between the Trump campaign and Russia.

In 2008 Rybolovlev bought Trump’s seaside Florida mansion – Maison de L’Amite – for $95m. Trump made a $50m profit, having bought the property just four years earlier. The sale at the peak of the global financial crisis raised eyebrows.

Rybolovlev never set foot inside and eventually demolished the villa, which had a serious mould problem. His spokesman said Rybolovlev had made a good enough investment, with the territory eventually divided into three lots, one of which has since sold for a large sum.

There are also questions about whether Rybolovlev ever had personal interactions with Trump. During the US election campaign Rybolovlev’s distinctive private Airbus jet – with the call-sign M-KATE – was spotted in the same place as Trump’s during election rallies.

The two planes landed within an hour of each other in early November 2016 at Charlotte International airport in Virginia. Trump addressed an election rally nearby. Rybolovlev has said this was “pure coincidence” and that he has never met Trump.

The oligarch travels extensively in the US, including New York and LA, for reasons of “business and pleasure”, his spokesman said. Additionally, Rybolovlev’s luxury yacht, “My Anna”, was spotted in Dubrovnik, Croatia, in August 2016, at the same time that Ivanka Trump and her husband, Jared Kushner, were visiting on holiday.

Rybolovlev says he has never met Kushner, who is a senior White House adviser.

0 Replies
 
snood
 
  4  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 04:59 pm
@Real Music,
The best speech George Bush ever did.
BillW
 
  2  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 05:27 pm
@snood,
I heard he wrote it himself? Go figure.......
blatham
 
  4  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 05:53 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
I think Russia’s dabbling is no more than usual, and no more than ours.
Good girl! You've got Hannity and Limbaugh and Bannon and Trump for company with that one.

But let's take you at your word, shall we?

I guess it must be the case that you've isolated American troll farms in Kentucky and Alaska or somewhere pushing out memes designed to sew discord in the Russian electoral system? Or designed to forward one candidate while damaging another?

And you've got scads of evidence of Americans running covert missions for the same goals using thousands of bots that inundate social media and you have seen Facebook and Twitter executives describe these operations?
blatham
 
  3  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 05:56 pm
@snood,
Quote:
The best speech George Bush ever did.
Yes, it was. Remove the vile blackness that is Dick Cheney and flowers grow again.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 06:13 pm
I really, really love this one.
Quote:
MOSCOW (AP) — President Vladimir Putin said Thursday that Russia remains open to cooperation with Washington even though President Donald Trump’s political foes in the U.S. have tried to prevent him from fulfilling his campaign promises.

Asked at a forum of foreign policy experts if Russia is annoyed with Trump’s unpredictability, Putin said that it’s linked to a “strong resistance inside the country.”

Russia rejoiced at Trump’s victory in the 2016 U.S. election, but its hopes for repairing ties with his administration have been shattered by congressional and FBI investigations into the Trump campaign’s ties with Russia.

Speaking at the Valdai forum in Sochi, Putin said Trump’s political adversaries “haven’t allowed him to fulfill any of his election platforms and plans.”

He emphasized that Trump won an honest victory thanks to his talents, adding that the lack of respect for Trump and his voters that was demonstrated by his foes is a “deplorable element of the U.S. political system.”
TPM

It's got everything!
1) Trump won the election on the strength of his magnificent talents.
2) Trump's administrative failures aren't his fault. That is the fault of his political foes tearing at him with their vicious fingernails and pounding on him in gangs wielding baseball bats (personally signed by Jackie Robinson)
3) It is deplorable citizens who fail to respect their leaders. That's how you spot them. The deplorables.
0 Replies
 
 

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