192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
blatham
 
  2  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 02:36 pm
Memories (item #3)
Quote:
Thom Hartmann ‏@Thom_Hartmann 16h16 hours ago
Watching "It's A Wonderful Life" on NBC…. Back then we all agreed that greedy businessman were not a good thing… now they're heroes... Sad!
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 02:42 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
But it surely will not help (as Bush belatedly recognized) for the US to cast this as a religious war because that plays right into the hands of the people who target us.
We never treated it as a 'religious war', neither was I suggesting that we should. If we did, would it make any sense for us to carefully avoid the obvious strategic targets of Mosques? We always fought it as if we were fighting a small group of isolated fanatics and that the problem would go away if we cut off the snake's head.

My point is, It may not be a religious war to us, but it is to them. We are just incapable of understanding that there is some widespread phenomenon that makes ordinary people willing to blow themselves up for what they believe. We tend to believe it's just a case of ignorance and poverty.

So what do you think is their key motivation if not their religion?
blatham
 
  4  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 03:11 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
My point is, It may not be a religious war to us, but it is to them.
So well as I understand them (and it's not that well) I agree.
Quote:
So what do you think is their key motivation if not their religion?
First, I wasn't arguing against that premise in what I wrote above. I was merely arguing that if rhetoric from the WH etc frames our motivation as engaging in a religious war, then that will aid the people we are talking about in solidification of their ideas and it will aid them in recruitment - thus its a bad idea.

The use of "key motivation" may not be helpful. Take the example of Irgun and Haganah insurgents blowing up the Brit barracks during occupation. The Brits saw them as religiously inspired terrorists which was true and not true. Or take what Tony Blair tried to argue to the Bush people when they sought his aid in attacking Iraq which was that Brit intel and foreign affairs people saw the primary problem stirring Muslim fanaticism was the Palestinian issue. Or take the history of Iran where a despot was put in place by western governments (and that was about oil most centrally).

The fanaticism we see now directed against the west has historical causes. It cannot be attributed to a simple thesis of "The Muslim faith is through and through a violent philosophy and so violence that we see is inevitable". But if we conceive of it that way, speak of it that way, and treat it that way, we're absolutely certain to create more of what we wish to see minimized.
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 03:21 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
I was merely arguing that if rhetoric from the WH etc frames our motivation as engaging in a religious war

I meant to comment on this before and forgot.

You are precisely right, and the inane political rhetoric from the WH (from both parties) is exactly the reason we are now monitoring Mr. Trump.

I don't know exactly how to respond to Islamic terrorism on a national scale. For me personally, it doesn't even exist.
McGentrix
 
  -3  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 03:27 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

I think his excuse will be that security briefings are unnecessary because of his "brilliant" early morning twitter rants. After all, why would anyone challenge his fourth-grade snot desire to be the world's most unyielding bully or his narcissistic expectation that everyone in the world prostrate themselves before him when he has nukes and he's itching to use them?

Newt Gingrich: Donald Trump’s Twitter Foreign Policy Is ‘Brilliant’

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/newt-gingrich-trump-twitter-brilliant_us_585fd733e4b0d9a594589496?


Do you whine this much outside of A2K or is it just something that you do here?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  -4  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 03:31 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Preibus is trolling so don't take the bait.


Isn't that what you've been doing with this entire thread?
blatham
 
  2  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 03:40 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
I don't know exactly how to respond to Islamic terrorism on a national scale. For me personally, it doesn't even exist.

We're in the same boat on this (something like a 65 Oldsmobile)
revelette1
 
  4  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 03:42 pm
@McGentrix,
No, he is keeping up with Trump and his relevant contemporary events just like the title says. You know if you don't like a thread, no forces anyone to look in and post.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  4  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 03:46 pm
@Leadfoot,
Oddly, it seems, those who are in poverty are easily led fanatics of whatever persuasion. It doesn't mean a perverted interpretation of Islam should be the acceptable measure we use when deciding labels of terrorist.

Poverty driving Syrian men and boys into the arms of Isis

In Palestine I imagine it is more of a territorial reason than religion.
blatham
 
  4  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 03:55 pm
@McGentrix,
Quote:
Isn't that [trolling] what you've been doing with this entire thread?

I kinda expect that if I answer in the negative, you'll not be convinced. But do consider this... as I wrote that post I understood quite clearly that you or georgeob or another would respond just as you've done. Knowing that had absolutely nothing to do with why I wrote what I wrote.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 03:57 pm
@revelette1,
And hopelessness about the future is a feature of radicalization anywhere whether in the north of Britain or in Europe or in the US.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 04:17 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

The fanaticism we see now directed against the west has historical causes. It cannot be attributed to a simple thesis of "The Muslim faith is through and through a violent philosophy and so violence that we see is inevitable". But if we conceive of it that way, speak of it that way, and treat it that way, we're absolutely certain to create more of what we wish to see minimized.


Though you write with the air of authority, you have the sequence of events backwards . Significantly, I believe you are mixing up cause and effect.

You are completely ignoring the real proximate historical causes of the current Moslem resentments with the West. It's origins are with with British and Franch colonialism in India and North Africa early in the 19th century and continuing through the British swindle of stock in the Egyptian Suez Canal Company, which ended in defacto British control. This continued through British advances and exploitation in The Persian Gulf and Iran in pursuit of the vast petroleum resourses found there.

The process culminated in WWI with a direct assault on the crumbling Ottoman Empire by Britain, France and Russia at Gallipoli in the West and Armenia in the east coupled with a British inspired and financed uprising of the Arabs of Syria, Palestine and Mesopotamia. The British promised independence for the Arabs under the rule of the Hashemite leaders who had just been driven out of Mecca and Medina by the upstart Ibn Saud, leading a band of fanatics from Yemen, but cynically they had already made a deal with the French dividing up the spoils between them - the French getting Syria, Lebanon and the Mosul provincce of Mesopotamia and the British all the rest. To cap it off the British separately promised the Rothschilds and a nascent Zionist movement in Europe a homeland for European Jews in Palestine, also without consulting their Arab stooges.

At war's end colonial rule in these areas was imposed, and the British installed the Shah's father Reza in Persia/Iran, thereby creating a parallel underground Islamist movement in that hue country. The Arab war with the West soon began (its Iranian equivalent arose a few decades later). The Moslem Brotherhood and other like organizartions started then along with a competing secular Bathist movement modeled on German Authoritarianisn which gave birth to the Assads and Saddam. The subsequent development of the fruits of these deceptions, including the errors of the United States in reacting to it, are pretty well known.

I realize that doesn't fit your political narritive very well, but it the truth and it is the proximate historical origin of a struggle that started before WWII and has grown in intensity and spread across the region since then.

blatham
 
  1  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 04:21 pm
Here's a really heart-warming Christmas story to make the whole family feel warm and happy in these trying times
Quote:
So recap: 1) 70-year-old man, who up until this lawsuit has no measurable national or local influence, writes about rumors he read on the internet on his own personal blog. 2) Gets threatening letter from Charles Harder, Melania Trump’s attorney, to take down said articles. 3) Immediately complies with the request. Takes the articles down, and apologizes. 4) Then a few weeks later, gets sued by Melania Trump for $150 million for defamation.
LINK
Then to really get this in context, take a few minutes to listen to the included video interview with Maddow and Conway. Maddow brings up (and shows the video of) Trump on one of the occasions in his victory tour, blatantly lying about Martha Raddatz's behavior on election night and Conway's response. Then contrast with her defense of this ridiculous suit.

If you needed a further notion of how these people are going to behave re a free and independent press, you'll get it right here. This is authoritarian and it is heading in the direction of fascism.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 04:24 pm
@georgeob1,
Thanks for the historical data. You've clearly studied this more deeply than I.
Quote:
I realize that doesn't fit your political narritive very well, but it the truth and it is the proximate historical origin of a struggle that started before WWII and has grown in intensity and spread across the region since then.

I have no problem here. The point was something else, that is, a rejection of the notion that modern Muslim behavior arises as an inevitable function of their holy text and that one has to look to other causes for a proper explanation.
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 04:56 pm
@blatham,
Me too re national scale; '67 VW convertible, my first car of my own.

Re looking quickly at the title of the thread - maybe we can get Trump to go motoring away.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 05:14 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

I have no problem here. The point was something else, that is, a rejection of the notion that modern Muslim behavior arises as an inevitable function of their holy text and that one has to look to other causes for a proper explanation.


Inevitable is indeed too strong a word for this. However it is simply a fact that Muslim nationa, almost without exception, have long been far less tolerant of either unbelief or other religions than have Christian ones. Moreover, their holy text has indeed been used very often, throughout its history, and uniquely into the modern era, as either a command for, or rationalization of, murderous behavior towards usually innocent perceived opponents. That does indeed set it apart from others. You appear to completely ignore this very prominent fact.

Equally important, I believe you are overstating the positions of those whose views you are opposing. I am not aware of any serious calls for a war on the Moslem religion. Nearly every nation in the world applies somewhat arbitrary standards for admission of imigrants, generally based on local perceptions of desirability or potential for successful assimilation ( try getting citizenship in China if you are not ethnically Chinese). The voices in America that you are opposing, propose only to restrict immigration from nations whose people are presently engaged in the persecution of non Moslems and terrorist attacks on Western Civilization. I believe this is wise both from the perspective of preserving our peace and progress; selecting from among the many people seeking admission to this country those most likely to assimilate; and also also because this action might inspire the otherwise silent voices of moderate Moslems to create greater tolerance of others in their own culture and nations.
giujohn
 
  -3  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 06:06 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

CALLING ALL CHRISTIANS! CALLING ALL CHRISTIANS!
A NEW KING IS BORN AMONG US!
Quote:
Republican National Committee (RNC) Chairman Reince Priebus and Co-Chair Sharon Day released the following statement celebrating Christmas:

“Merry Christmas to all! Over two millennia ago, a new hope was born into the world, a Savior who would offer the promise of salvation to all mankind. Just as the three wise men did on that night, this Christmas heralds a time to celebrate the good news of a new King.
GOP Press Release today

Preibus is trolling so don't take the bait. People are already reacting to this which is just what he/they want and the denial of what he's up to is easy.

One can gain a lot of enlightenment through understanding that modern conservatism commonly operates as a trolling operation (take Coulter, take Limbaugh, take Gingrich, take McConnell and definitely take Trump). Pushing emotional buttons and getting people worked up is a broadly implemented strategy, just as it is with an online troll. Building or augmenting or bringing people together is not the point and goal. The point and goal is the opposite.


ALL HAIL HIS MAJESTY KING DONALD THE 1st !!!!!

All liberals may genuflect and kiss the ring.
0 Replies
 
Frugal1
 
  -2  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 07:17 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
RED ALERT: Hordes of insane liberal insurgents are planning a frontal attack during the inauguration on January 20 in Washington D.C.!

Listen up! I and many of the Tea Party leaders will be at the inauguration, and it is reported the liberal mob have specifically targeted conservative leaders… there may even be a hefty price on our heads. The liberal mob will stop at nothing to destroy the swearing in of Donald J Trump as the next President of the United States.

But we will not back down! This is why we need sponsors now! Insiders are whispering underworld leaders such as George Soros and the Leftist Crime Machine may be financing all-out attacks on this ceremony, but we will be ready.


I don't doubt that this is their plan, I wonder just how far the angry losers will go?
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 07:32 pm
@Frugal1,
Shameless begging for funds in thefull version of this on another thread, where it was pointed ouut where the odd amount they wanted was exactly the asking prive of anew BMW, whichsounds exactly like Tea Party chicanery.
Frugal1
 
  0  
Sun 25 Dec, 2016 08:16 pm
@MontereyJack,
But you have absolutely no problem if a planned, or as Nancy called it 'spontaneous' riotous demonstration erupted at the inauguration. That part of the story makes you quiver with excitement, doesn't it MJ?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.9 seconds on 11/14/2024 at 10:46:25