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@snood,

Quote:

And anyway everyone knows the slavery is what's considered America's original sin, not the frigging statues. It's almost as if certain people feign ignorance to keep living in alternate reality.

This is the kind of comment that keeps me coming back for a giggle, snooze. Yourself and your wunderkind glamourbag keep shooting yourselves in the foot, without even realising it.

Keep 'em coming kids. Laugh a minute.

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@Builder,

Snood's right. Builder's not.

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@Olivier5,

Their modelling is pretty damned impressive.

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@Builder,

Hard to figure out what you're trying to say here. What's your point?

Quote:

Yourself and your wunderkind glamourbag keep shooting yourselves in the foot, without even realising it.

First thing, it's "you", not "yourself". Second, "shoot yourself in the foot" means saying something that makes a problem for you or undermines your interests. It's hard to see where either poster has done that; maybe you could point it out specifically? And thirdly, what's funny about slavery?

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From Ha'aretz

Quote:

Soros and Reptilians Controlling the World: Yair Netanyahu Posts Meme Rife With anti-Semitic Themes
Ex-KKK leader David Duke comes to the defense of Prime Minister Netanyahu's son after he posts a meme that suggests a conspiracy is behind his family's growing legal problems

Link Here

Once, long ago, I loved Israel. As a young man, I wanted to move there. Not so much now.

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@maporsche,

It's no use. They will wiggle every which way to obfuscate the obvious - that anyone standing with that group of vermin knew who they were standing with.

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Builder just comes here hoping to jerk people around, to take the piss. He's profoundly ignorant of the constitution and how the government operates, so now he's just taking cheap shots. Don't respond to him. He'll go away when he can't have his fun.

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glitterbag wrote:

There is more to history than memorizing dates.

blatham - A new nominee for your No **** Sherlock Award Laughing

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@glitterbag,

Quote:

I think you have mixed up the notion of Mortal Sin with Original Sin. I can't speak for your boyhood Catholic friends but it sounds as if they gave you lousy religious information. I suppose it's possible you misunderstood what they told you, (It's nuanced, but the church doesn't teach that mortal sin can never be forgiven) but it's original sin that's considered the sin that can't be stain removed from souls.

Oh, and under the cover escapades are not ranked as mortal sin unless you murder another person, and even then only the murder is actually ranked as a mortal sin.

It is my understanding the only sin not forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I think because if you deny what you feel from the Holy Spirit continually, you are willfully denying or rejecting God. (Mat. 12:31) If you stop blaspheming against the Holy Spirit then you are of course forgiven.

On the whole though Finn justification for clinging to the statues of the confederates in the civil war you were responding to, is just bogus.

Quote:

Foolishness and insensitivity are flaws but in the case of the Statute Wars, I personally don't consider them the sort of sins my boyhood Catholic friends referred to as Mortal. Apparently, someone was teaching them that there are sins so bad that once you commit one, that's it; game over man! According to their understanding of the dogma a Mortal Sin put a black mark on your soul that could not be erased no matter how much you pleaded for forgiveness or how many good works you performed. (I think maybe someone didn't want them playing with themselves under the bed covers). In any case, it often seems that this is the view of some folks on the left when it comes to Confederate statues, flags, and "Dixie."

If the civil war was only about a war between southerners and "Yankees" then I would agree with those who want to remember to honor the leaders of the confederate side of the civil war. But it was not, it was also about freeing the slaves of the south who were human beings. Our country should not have had slaves and we don't need to honor the leaders of the side of war who wanted to keep them. We can remember them by putting the statues in museums, but not in places of honor in cities and towns. It would be like some place in Germany having a statue of Hitler in a place of honor. (they don't do they?) (least that is how I see even I can't really articulate it too good.)

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It is also important to keep in mind that these statues were erected after the end of reconstruction, in the Jim Crow era, and their explicit purpose was to show blacks "their place" in that society. Contemporary conservatives, and Finny is a wonderful example of this, assiduously ignore that.

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Some people think that the 'original sin' of Americans was the way we pushed native people aside, manifest destiny, the Trail of Tears.

If we eradicate the associated statues of those responsible, we'd have to blot out records of more than a few of our presidents. Certainly the Spanish names so prominently adorning Texas and Cali would be erased.

Trawling back through the histories of most countries would require big erasers if dominating cultures' sins are to be blotted out.

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"Some people" think all manner of stupid things. Manifest destiny is not mentioned in print until the early 1820s. The "Trail of Tears" took place in 1838 and 1839. Our declaration of independence posited that it is a self-evident truth that all men are created equal in 1776--yet only slightly more than a decade later, the constitutional convention decided that a black slave was only 3/5 of a person. Snood is absolutely right--slavery is the nation's original sin. Knee-jerk conservatism is more of a joke, and intellectually and morally pathetic, than anything they ever alleged against to so-called left.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

If we eradicate the associated statues of those responsible, we'd have to blot out records of more than a few of our presidents. Certainly the Spanish names so prominently adorning Texas and Cali would be erased.

Trawling back through the histories of most countries would require big erasers if dominating cultures' sins are to be blotted out.

There's a difference between publicly celebrating, honoring and memorializing those who perpetrated the "dominating cultures' sins," and preserving records of what these people have done.

I'm fairly sure that it's possible to preserve the history of the Civil War, the history of slavery in America, or the history of the genocide on the native population without putting up statues of those who were responsible in public squares all over the United States.

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@old europe,

I agree. Definitely since the Civil War era statues were mostly erected in conjunction with the Jim Crow sentiments.

I've just been thinking about some of the voices who call for Washington's, Jefferson's removals, some university founders' names and likenesses, and it led to that opinion.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I've just been thinking about some of the voices who call for Washington's, Jefferson's removals, some university founders' names and likenesses, and it led to that opinion.

I think that framing this as a slippery slope argument, along the lines of

Lash wrote:

If we eradicate the associated statues of those responsible, we'd have to ...

isn't helpful to the discussion - simply because it's entirely viable to remove the statues of those who fought a war of secession against the United States of America in order to preserve the institution of slavery without doing anything else, at all. The removal of those statues doesn't force us to do anything else.

Sure, there can be a discussion about e.g. whether or not a guy who proposed eradicating "the disaffected tribes of Indians" by infecting them with small pox should have several towns, cities, schools, a county and a college named after him.

But those discussions can be had completely separately from the discussion about the removal of statues that celebrate Confederate generals. Arguing that it's impossible to tackle one issue at a time really only strengthens the arguments of those who don't want to see Confederate statues removed in the first place.

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@old europe,

Well said

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If somebody does argue that it's impossible, I feel confident that you have a prepared rebuttal.

I also don't think anyone is forced to do anything either. Including limiting themselves to talk about only one of these issues at a time.

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@MontereyJack,

Quote:

Snood's right. Builder's not.

LOL. I guess you forgot that America was populated, and the colonials decimated the local populace by millions.

Handy having a selective memory, right?

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@Setanta,

Quote:

the constitutional convention decided that a black slave was only 3/5 of a person. Snood is absolutely right--slavery is the nation's original sin. Knee-jerk conservatism is more of a joke, and intellectually and morally pathetic, than anything they ever alleged against to so-called left.

And you're as equally ignorant and self-satisfied (wanker, is the term we use, here), as snooze.

Genocide was the original sin of the US of A. Slavery doesn't even approach the horrors inflicted upon the indigenous peoples of the Americas, post invasion.

Stuff that in your peace pipe, wanker.

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@Builder,

Quote:

Genocide was the original sin of the US of A...

...horrors inflicted upon the indigenous people...

It's appreciated by me that you said this. The majority of sanctimonious thumbsuckers on this and other boards don't even acknowledge the brutality of the Europeans on the indigenous people. Of those who do, the majority only do so to try to appear more liberal in their thinking (and failing).

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