@Lash,
I wondered if you might be pushing the equivalence story. Here's what Hedges says further down the page...
Quote:The corporate state seeks to discredit and shut down the anti-capitalist left. Its natural allies are the neo-Nazis and the Christian fascists. The alt-right is bankrolled, after all, by the most retrograde forces in American capitalism. It has huge media platforms. It has placed its ideologues and sympathizers in positions of power, including in law enforcement and the military. And it has carried out acts of domestic terrorism that dwarf anything carried out by the left. White supremacists were responsible for 49 homicides in 26 attacks in the United States from 2006 to 2016, far more than those committed by members of any other extremist group, according to a report issued in May by the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. There is no moral equivalency between antifa and the alt-right. But by brawling in the streets antifa allows the corporate state, which is terrified of a popular anti-capitalist uprising, to use the false argument of moral equivalency to criminalize the work of all anti-capitalists.
And let's add that there is also no equivalence in terms of size (numbers of individuals involved) and in organization. It's not even close.
A critical aspect Hedges does not delve into is the behavioral tendencies of young males. Violence and destruction of the sort he is theorizing about here can be seen in most any riot situation, as in Vancouver a decade ago or in England/Europe during or around football matches or as in what happened in Seattle about 25 years ago. It is not necessarily political (in the normal sense of that term). This behavior, as I've noted before, is quite common in primates - young males creating havoc as dominance display and as a challenge to the older generation who they wish to cast aside so they can take that position.
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
Quote:The war mongers are a set of idiot children.
Yes, they are.
And I'm afraid their idiot father won't be satisfied until he actually gets to play with one of nuclear toys and blows some **** up.
@snood,
Though I am perhaps suffering from a lack of imagination, I think that such an outcome is very unlikely. Trump is all about bluster and threats. Further, he's far too cowardly to make such a significant and terrible decision where will be seen as
the author of it. He always has others do the dirty work (so he can place blame elsewhere than himself) but in this instance, he doesn't have that out.
I think, also, that the existing war machine (the military along with all the private enterprise entities that profit handsomely from warfare around the world) would definitely NOT want such an action to take place. I can't imagine anything that would so profoundly risk turning American and world citizens against militarism than a nuclear exchange. The existing regime of conventional weapons/war makes so many billions of dollars and it wouldn't make business sense to overturn this model.
Most people don't understand Trump as a president because by a continued brainwashing they are used to politicians.
Trump won the presidency not as a politician but as a business man taking the leadership of the country.
Politicians are hypocrites, corrupt, they sell themselves to any one who will donate for his re-election or new campaign.
Hillary Clinton was a politician, one of the greatest corrupt politicians in the US.
When we see Trump talking hard on GOP politicians, is because Trump is not one of them, this is to say, a dude who sells himself to private corporations, donators, etc.
Trump is the representation of what freedom is in America.
He can tweet, he can express himself and give opinions as a president and as a regular American citizen.
Politicians and brainwashed people expect from Trump to act as a politician, not so as the president, the man in charge, but as a politician.
Obama was a puppet, he talks nice but he obeyed every side which controlled him. For example, he gave billions of dollars to "save" car manufacturers, and he claims that these car manufacturers returned back all the money.
The problem is that even when the money was "returned" there was no interest charged, while the US country got in debt where interest was charged in those billions of dollars given as a loan to the car corporations.
In other words, idiot Obama sold one more time the entire United States of America to the banks by borrowing money to help private corporations and increased the debt in billions of dollars more.
You don't see that kind of stupidity in Trump's administration, because Trump is a business man and he is not a politician, so you are save from that kind of betrayal like the ones made by Obama.
Rather than go against Trump, you better review the atrocities made by Obama, and compare.
Right now the economy is at its best, even when catastrophe like the one in Texas happens, this administration fulfills its play by bringing help right away without delay.
Now you keep your mouth shut.
Now you invent another news of Russian collusion again, because you are the corrupt one, you are the one trying to cover all the good from this administration by posting comments against Trump.
You are anti-American when you insult your president, because Donald Trump represents all Americans, Donald Trump was elected president by Americans voting democratically, not so by Russians who don't vote in the US land.
On the other hand.
Hell with those illegal immigrants who demand rights.
For to start, in the first place, illegal immigrants have no right to be here.
Illegal immigrants can beg for mercy for the US government allow them to stay, but illegal immigrant "demanding" rights? Hell don't know.
They have their own Embassies to demand their rights, not the US Government. They came to the US at their own risk.
Are you defending the corrupt politicians who sell America for votes in their favor?
How long are you going to trash the Constitution and how long are you going to disrespect the authorities in charge?
What benefit you obtain doing so?
What is your problem?
Come on, vomit here, explain what is your personal hatred against president Trump.
@blatham,
Quote:
Trump is the representation of what freedom is in America.
Holy crap, you don't actually believe this do you?
Cycloptichorn
Edit: this was supposed to be a response to the dude below you, sorry
@blatham,
This equivalence argument is an attempt to justify or excuse the violent tactics of Antifa.
They're bad but not as bad as white supremacists.
From an overall standpoint, and on a number of levels, there isn't equivalency, but violence is violence. Antifa thugs haven't killed anyone yet, but it's only a matter of time before they do.
As well, there's no reason to believe they have a governor in place and can't or won't grow into something more dangerous.
Another "excuse" is the notion that the worst outcome of their violence is that it allows the Corporate State to crack down on "anti-capitalists."
You and your confreres immediately jump on any statement that can even remotely be interpreted as support of white supremacists, and yet you feel your comments can't be interpreted to signify support for political violence. I don't believe you do, but others here have admitted they do.
Why is it so hard to condemn political violence by any group?
@blatham,
No, I'm not saying the two groups are equal, and I noticed Hedges didn't say that either, but antifa's apparent glee in using violence mutes their cause and aids their enemy of the week.
I remember it hurt their cause against capitalism when the focus was on *antifa violence* and not on economic inequality.
Antifa portrays themselves as people who like to hurt people and destroy property.
@blatham,
Heh. I definitely agree with the comparison to young primates. On both sides.
Not all members of Anti-Fascist Action are black-garbed, violent thugs; no more are all right-wing demonstrators violent Nazis. To suggest that about either group is to indulge in puerile, ideological bigotry, and something any thoughtful adult ought to eschew.
The people who showed up in Charlottesville from the right were, many of them, heavily armed, including many with firearms. I know of no reliable claims that "antifa" thugs threatened or attacked the demonstrators who were openly displaying Nazi symbols. If we cannot make these distinctions we might as well be little children in the sand box, slinging handfuls of sand in one another's eyes.
Quote:US President Donald Trump has said North Korea's latest missile launch signals "contempt" for its neighbours and the UN.
He said the North would only increase its isolation and that "all options" were on the table.
The missile flew over northern Japan's Hokkaido island before crashing into the northern Pacific Ocean.
Pyongyang says it is being provoked by US-South Korea military exercises which it says are a rehearsal for invasion.
Russia and China have also cited the drills as the source of the latest tensions.
The UN Security Council is due to hold an emergency meeting in response. Ahead of the meeting, Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said the missile launch undermined regional security and stability.
He called on Pyongyang to comply with its international obligations.
President Trump, in a statement released by the White House, said the world had "received North Korea's latest message loud and clear".
"This regime has signalled its contempt for its neighbours, for all members of the United Nations, and for minimum standards of acceptable international behaviour," he said.
"Threatening and destabilising actions only increase the North Korean regime's isolation in the region and among all nations of the world. All options are on the table."
Earlier this month, President Trump warned Pyongyang would face "fire and fury" if it continued to threaten the US, while North Korea threatened to fire missiles towards the US Pacific territory of Guam.
However, North Korean UN ambassador Han Tae-Song said his country had the right to respond to the military exercises.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41082680
The worst thing about all of this is the growing feeling that America is as much to blame as N Korea. These exercises have been an annual event for a long time, but it's only when Trump is president that they're called provocative by both China and Russia. That's a measure of how much Trump has devalued the presidency, the suggestion that America is partly to blame for N Korea's actions would have been unthinkable just a few months ago, but not only are people thinking it, they're saying it too.
@Finn dAbuzz,
In Charlottesville? I haven't said that anti-fascists are not violent, just that they weren't violent in Charlottesville, if they were present at all. Without the straw man fallacy, you'd have nothing to say.
From what I can tell, the fight for Harvey funding is going to get tricky with the debt ceiling coming up.
Disaster Money May Give Congress a Way Out of Its Fiscal Crisis (NYMAG)
Of course Trump wouldn't be Trump if he didn't make a completely clueless statement. This is the trouble of electing people who know nothing about how the government works.
Quote:The most interesting factor, of course, is Donald Trump, whose eager advocacy of big bucks for the places and people hurt by Harvey is in sharp contrast to his multiple threats to shut down the government if the appropriations bill needed to keep federal operations humming beyond September 30 does not include funding for his border wall. Asked about the possibility of Harvey funds being packaged with a stopgap appropriations measure, Trump once again betrayed his lack of understanding about how things work in Congress:
The president batted down suggestions that delivering emergency funding to Texas would be hurt by his threats to shut down the government if a spending package doesn’t contain funding for his border wall.
“It has nothing to do with it, really. I think this is separate,” Trump said. “This is going to go very, very quickly. Everybody feels the same way I do.”
So tell me, how is the federal government going to get money to Harvey victims if the government is shut down?
@Setanta,
Obviously not. It was Berkley California.
@Olivier5,
So you think Harvey was due to climate change?
@Finn dAbuzz,
At least the rising sea temperature is related.
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:Why is it so hard to condemn political violence by any group?
It isn't and I have. Though that condemnation from me is not absolute, as others I have linked above have argued, we are far from a situation where violence by those protesting fascist or neo-nazi groups is warranted.
