monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

@old europe,

Quote:

Her daughter was on her insurance plan.

So her entire campaign is a scam then? Her daughter had insurance but didn't use it and now we have to have single payer?

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She just didn't know it, so she got the ER treatment of an uninsured person: instead of completing an MRI, the hospital pressured her into being released.

How did she know she didn't have insurance? Did her mother fail to tell her and provide her with an insurance card and is now blaming the system instead of herself or her daughter? These are not good reasons to campaign on socialism and tax increases for the vast majority of Americans who do not have any issues with their health insurance.

4 Replies

@blatham,

Ooooooh.....SERIOUS NEUROLOGICAL DECLINE, eh?

blatham wrote:

This is a rather interesting piece on studies of Trump's speech oddities and the real possibility of some serious neurological decline
https://www.statnews.com/2017/05/23/donald-trump-speaking-style-interviews/

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“There are clearly some changes in Trump as a speaker” since the 1980s, said Michaelis, who does not support Trump, including a “clear reduction in linguistic sophistication over time,” with “simpler word choices and sentence structure. … In fairness to Trump, he’s 70, so some decline in his cognitive functioning over time would be expected.”...

The change in linguistic facility could be strategic; maybe Trump thinks his supporters like to hear him speak simply and with more passion than proper syntax. “He may be using it as a strategy to appeal to certain types of people,” said Michaelis.

...neither Johnson nor other experts STAT consulted said the apparent loss of linguistic fluency was unambiguous evidence of mental decline....

Dr. Robert Pyles, a psychiatrist in suburban Boston, [said] he heard “a difference in tone and pace. … What I did not detect was any gaps in mentation or meaning. I don’t see any clear evidence of neurological or cognitive dysfunction.”

Northwestern University psychology professor Dan McAdams, a critic of Trump who has inferred his psychological makeup from his public behavior, said any cognitive decline in the president might reflect normal aging and not dementia. “Research shows that virtually nobody is as sharp at age 70 as they were at age 40,” he said. “A wide range of cognitive functions, including verbal fluency, begin to decline long before we hit retirement age. So, no surprise here.”

Some SERIOUS **** there, sho nuff!

2 Replies

@layman,

I've seen serious articles claiming that Trump, in his prime, had one of the highest IQ's of any president ever elected--estimated to be 156-160.

Any "decline" from that would immediately put you on the short bus, eh?

Quote:

In interviews Trump gave in the 1980s and 1990s (with Tom Brokaw, David Letterman, Oprah Winfrey, Charlie Rose, and others), he spoke articulately, used sophisticated vocabulary, inserted dependent clauses into his sentences without losing his train of thought, and strung together sentences into a polished paragraph, which — and this is no mean feat — would have scanned just fine in print. This was so even when reporters asked tough questions about, for instance, his divorce, his brush with bankruptcy, and why he doesn’t build housing for working-class Americans.

Trump fluently peppered his answers with words and phrases such as “subsided,” “inclination,” “discredited,” “sparring session,” and “a certain innate intelligence.” He tossed off well-turned sentences such as, “It could have been a contentious route,” and, “These are the only casinos in the United States that are so rated.” He even offered thoughtful, articulate aphorisms: “If you get into what’s missing, you don’t appreciate what you have."

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@Baldimo,

Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
Her daughter was on her insurance plan.

So her entire campaign is a scam then? Her daughter had insurance but didn't use it and now we have to have single payer?

Quote:
She just didn't know it, so she got the ER treatment of an uninsured person: instead of completing an MRI, the hospital pressured her into being released.

How did she know she didn't have insurance? Did her mother fail to tell her and provide her with an insurance card and is now blaming the system instead of herself or her daughter? These are not good reasons to campaign on socialism and tax increases for the vast majority of Americans who do not have any issues with their health insurance.

Do you know a lot of people who do not have "any" issues with their health insurance or the hospital payment systems?

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Quote:

Do you know a lot of people who do not have "any" issues with their health insurance or the hospital payment systems?

I have heard more complaints about people's insurance since the passing of the ACA then I did before the ACA, it made things worse for the average person not better.

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
Do you know a lot of people who do not have "any" issues with their health insurance or the hospital payment systems?

I have heard more complaints about people's insurance since the passing of the ACA then I did before the ACA, it made things worse for the average person not better.

First, that was not your claim.

Second, would you be surprised if I had a different recollection of pre-ACA healthcare woes?

Third, the 'average' American is quite a bit better than they were before. Your sentence there made me laugh quite a bit.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Quote:

First, that was not your claim.

So why ask a stupid question? You were working under the assumption I was saying nothing was wrong with health insurance prior to the ACA. What I was saying is that a majority of Americans didn't have the problems the ACA claimed it was trying to fix. I'm still waiting on my $2500 a year savings on my health insurance I was promised by Obama, the Dems and the left leaning MSM. I'm also still waiting on my refund check from my insurance company because it was claimed they were screwing me over.

Quote:

Second, would you be surprised if I had a different recollection of pre-ACA healthcare woes?

Does this "recollection" contain stores from your harsh days working in Chicago hospitals as a nurse or does it also contain information from average Americans or the minority of those who had heath insurance issues?

Quote:

Third, the 'average' American is quite a bit better than they were before. Your sentence there made me laugh quite a bit.

Do you have any proof of this? The average American had their costs increase dramatically and the only people who have seen savings are those on the exchanges and they are not the average American, the average American gets their insurance from their employer and not the govt, we are getting screwed. How many state exchanges have failed and called it quits since they first started a few years ago? Less than half the states have their own exchanges and this includes states run by Dems.

What has gotten so much better for the average American and their health insurance? Free birth control, is that what makes it so much better?

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

Baldimo wrote:

How did she know she didn't have insurance? Did her mother fail to tell her and provide her with an insurance card and is now blaming the system instead of herself or her daughter?

I read a few articles about the case after Old Europe's post, and it seems that the daughter was switching jobs and had not started her new job, and she mistakenly believed that because she was between jobs she did not have insurance.

I think the family has a very strong malpractice case against the hospital. She told them she would be willing to pay the MRI bills herself, and they still refused to treat her.

Of course, that still isn't a good argument for imposing a delusional single payer system on the nation.

0 Replies

@Baldimo,

Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
Third, the 'average' American is quite a bit better than they were before. Your sentence there made me laugh quite a bit.

Do you have any proof of this? The average American had their costs increase dramatically and the only people who have seen savings are those on the exchanges and they are not the average American, the average American gets their insurance from their employer and not the govt, we are getting screwed. How many state exchanges have failed and called it quits since they first started a few years ago? Less than half the states have their own exchanges and this includes states run by Dems.

What has gotten so much better for the average American and their health insurance? Free birth control, is that what makes it so much better?

60% of people get their health insurance through their jobs. 40% from the government (2006 numbers, it may be different now).

If you look at who actually has to USE their health insurance, the government funds 64% of all healthcare spending though. The government is no small player in healthcare.

As to benefits, that's the easiest question I'll answer all week.
10 essential health benefits in each plan.
Can't deny coverage for pre-existing conditions.
Can't vastly overcharge old people or those with pre-existing conditions.
Can't overcharge women.
Children stay on parent's healthcare until age 26.
Lowered the increases in healthcare costs overall.
Eliminated lifetime and annual coverage limits.
The insurance exchange market is a vast improvement over the old way purchasing healthcare.
The middle class receives assistance to purchase healthcare.
Increased medicaid to more people.
Required that employers with more than 50 people offer health insurance, instead of making states do it.
Lowered the budget deficit by 143 billion dollars.
Eliminated the medicare doughnut hole.
Preventive healthcare has no copay.
Health insurers must spend at least 85% of their premium dollars on actual healthcare or rebate their customers (actuarial value).
Improvements in electronic medical records.
Clarity in billing and coverage details
CHIP program expanded to cover millions more children

Some people also consider that Obamacare kept the private insurance market in place to be a benefits. Others consider that to be a major downfall.

1 Reply

@hightor,

hightor wrote:

I, too, am puzzled and disgusted with the behavior of some of Mr. Trump's more rabid defenders on A2K and other forums and I have to make quite an effort not to join in the childish name-calling and juvenile attempts at sarcasm. I brought this up here a week or so ago and got accused of "having a stick up my posterior", received an unsolicited analysis of my psychopathology, and got the full GOP "what about" treatment — something like "bobsal posted cartoons and you all were fine with that." All this from someone I used to respect. To hell with it.

blatham is right — don't bother engaging with these people. Refute their misstatements with facts but forget about finding "common ground". Trump's mobs have never been interested in having a respectful dialog or an actual conversation. We can use A2K to share information and insights among ourselves and let the Trump mob rave on, ignored — a tale of two echo chambers. And so it goes.

Oh no. I guess this means I've lost your respect.

If so, it's quite unfortunate, but if your respect is so fragile that it can be lost with one critical post then I suppose it was never long for this world, and not really worth holding on to.

I regret that you and revelette have fallen into a deep funk over the refusal of Trump Supporters/Defenders/Voters (they're not all one in the same although it's clear that you assume they are. For the purposes of this post I will refer to them, collectively, as "Trumpers") to see the light you two (guided, of course, by blatham) have been trying to shine on the darkness that is Trump. That you can't fathom or even imagine there are valid reasons to dispute much of the criticism directed at Trump is not all that surprising. You have the certainty of your convictions to narrow your mind and that's hardly an uncommon occurrence regardless of political affiliation.

That you seem to think that there is something foul about the refusal of Trumpers to get on board the Trump Hate Train is, I must admit, a challenge to my respect for you, but then I am unable to see how the following is part of the a respectful dialog or an actual conversation of which you believe Trumpers are incapable.

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Trump supporters: "More dogshit! Feed me more! Feed it to me every day! Gimme gimme gimme that dogshit! Yummmmmmy!"

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I admit that Trump has opened up our imaginations to what is possible in America rather in the manner of Sarah Palin and Charles Manson.

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Those unable to recognize and admit the historical precedents of this sort of behavior are precisely the ones who are opening the door to a very ugly America.

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Trying to carry on an argument/discussion with a Trump supporter is like two people trying to carry a long heavy plank of wood, with only one person holding their end. You have the whole burden, and they have none. They can say anything, lie all the time, and take no responsibility - just like Trump.

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Yeah, he really is. Mentally, ethically and physically. But the real weak-ass chumps are tools like you who will believe and defend this POS no matter what he does to lower this country.

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These people have the ethics level of a truck load of pig ****.

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What about you, AuralJoy? You tired of winning yet?

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But of course, EVERYONE must edit out those pesky statements that don't fit their preconceived cherished pig ignorant favorite themes. It might make them look like woefully uneducable boobs. They may not be very smart, but even closed minded tools are arrogant about their sad grasp of reality.

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I got news for you Lieboy: you did doctor this quote. You'd have to have some sort of moral sense in order to realize that, though. I bet you think you "edited" or "summarized" it but in actual fact you tried to mislead us.
Nice try, bouffeur de merde.

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You must not have read Finn's last screed. I don't blame you - I skip over most of the bloviating bullcrap he writes, too.

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Bwahahahahahahaaaaaa!!!!!! Like someone gives a **** they annoy or bore you.

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You can't understand that by yourself, Finn? Did you misplace your couple of neurons or what?

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I don't know how to dumb it down for you. Is English your only language? Stop playing the fool, better yet stop pretending you are smarter than you are.

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Laymen doesn't deserve a more intelligent response George.

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Shonuff boobooboobooboo, ya feel me, booboobooboo, eh, caincha see,

I tried using a little Layman hilarity because you find it tres amusing, eh mon comrade stuffed shirt.

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You are foul, senseless and shameless. Your words are a blight.

Several points about these posts:

1) They are all taken from just the last week of this one thread. There are better examples in earlier posts, but I didn't want to take the time to search for them and limiting myself to the latest week, in itself, helps to make my point
2) These are all par for the course in A2K and I do not offer them as proof of any uniquely "liberal" behavior, nor do I offer them to challenge why you are not complaining about them too. I refuse to play conservative cop on A2K and I see no reason why you should play liberal cop
3) I offer them to suggest that you might discover you will have a difficult time finding respectful dialog or an actual conversation within the echo chamber you will inhabit once you follow blatham's advice.(Of course without the corrosive influence of Trumpers in your bubble, all of these folks will regain their normal, sweetheart dispositions)

What you and most Trumper critics, on the left and on the right, fail to understand is that the majority of them don't see Trump as a Great Man. He's not their idea of the perfect president, and a great many of them even dislike him personally. They are not deluded ostriches with their heads in the sand, they are defiant and fierce opponents of the Resistance and all of the forces contained within it.

For most of them his two greatest attributes are 1) That he is not Hillary Clinton and 2) He is a fighter.

The first is no small thing. I sincerely question whether he could have won if the Democrats had fielded any number of other nominees. I don't know about Sanders, but Biden would have beaten him and so would have Jim Webb. Without a a goodly number of people voting for Trump even though they were not big fans of his, he wouldn't have won.

His being perceived as a fighter is no small thing either. Trumpers may have a problem with many of the things Trump says and tweets, but as soon as they witness left-wing heads exploding as a result. they rethink their original assessment. I don't know how many times I've heard someone say "I wish he would cut back on his tweeting, but it sure drives liberals nuts and I love that!"

So ultimately liberals can say whatever they please about Trumpers. No matter how insulting they get, the irredeemable deplorables have heard it before and not only do they not care, they revel in the hysterical reaction. They will defend Trump not because he is their idol (as he may think) but because it drives liberals into a frenzy. Whether they love him or not, they love the way he hammers the Resistance, and particularly the MSM and RINOS.

It's interesting because while they certainly are no fans of Democrats, they seem to view them as nothing much more than the enemy. Every war is going to have an enemy and while wars are fought to defeat the enemy we expect and understand and even can respect that the enemy wants to defeat us too. It's different with the MSM and RINOs though. Democrats don't try to deny they are the enemy, the MSM does. One can argue that Democrats should be working with Republicans to fix the nation's problems but our system of government was designed to accommodate the idea of and need for a Loyal Opposition. Partisans will quibble about loyalty, but Democrats who oppose Trump and the GOP are fulfilling a role designed for them. The MSM however are not. Certainly the expectation of a free press in a healthy democracy is for it to challenge and keep in check the power of the government, but it is not expected that it will only challenge the power of a Republican government and even work to assure the power of a Democrat one. There is an inherent sense of unfairness with this situation and it fuels the Trumpers hatred of the MSM, a hatred that far exceeds any contempt they have for Democrats. Similarly there is clearly something wrong with Republicans who turn on fellow Republicans in wartime. Liberals, of course see it as a sign of courage, but Germans probably felt the same about German-American saboteurs working out of Yaphank NY during WWII. It is why a true American hero like John McCain can be so routinely despised among Trumpers.

As for the Russian Collusion affair, Trumpers defend Trump not because in mid-2016 they all suddenly fell in love with Vladimir Putin but because they recognize the matter for what it is: An attempt by the Resistance to stage a soft-coup, and arrange what they could not achieve through democratic means.

Finally, if anyone expects to convince Trumpers that they are following the wrong path, they are certainly not going to achieve that end by insulting them, but nor will they achieve it through respectful dialog or an actual conversation and so it might be a good idea to follow blatham's advice and retreat into a Resistance Echo Chamber. I hope you find it comfortable and not too claustrophobic.

Of course if it makes someone feel good to rant about the many detestable characteristics of Trumpers I invite them to go for it. It isn't going to change anything, but a shot of sanctimony might be just what the doctor ordered for someone's flaccid self-esteem. It won't hurt anyone's feelings, but it will probably get the person 5 or 6 thumbs up and a few "Amens" from the usual suspects. Leadership of the Resistance Mob on A2K seems to have been ceded right from the start to that Canadian blatham, but I sense that there may be one or two American SJWs who just might want to challenge the current tribal chieftain. C'mon you guys, this is an American problem with American deplorables causing all the trouble! Don't fob the job off on a Canuk. Step up and lead the fight for your country!

3 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Quote:
Laymen doesn't deserve a more intelligent response George.

I object to you including my quote in this list Finn. It has absolutely nothing to do with Laymen being a Trump supporter.

Quote:

3) I offer them to suggest that you might discover you will have a difficult time finding respectful dialog or an actual conversation within the echo chamber you will inhabit once you follow blatham's advice.(Of course without the corrosive influence of Trumpers in your bubble, all of these folks will regain their normal, sweetheart dispositions)

I've placed several people on ignore, and I find myself having much more time to read, learn, and talk about more substantive issues that I would otherwise. Time is valuable and reading a lot of bullshit is a waste of that valuable time.

Quote:

Trumpers may have a problem with many of the things Trump says and tweets, but as soon as they witness left-wing heads exploding as a result. they rethink their original assessment. I don't know how many times I've heard someone say "I wish he would cut back on his tweeting, but it sure drives liberals nuts and I love that!"

It's interesting because while they certainly are no fans of Democrats, they seem to view them as nothing much more than the enemy.

This is disgusting to think of and sophomoric. I knew there were the same types of behaviors on either side, but if it's take to the degree that you've laid out then it's absolutely disgusting.

Quote:

Finally, if anyone expects to convince Trumpers that they are following the wrong path, they are certainly not going to achieve that end by insulting them, but nor will they achieve it through respectful dialog or an actual conversation and so it might be a good idea to follow blatham's advice and retreat into a Resistance Echo Chamber. I hope you find it comfortable and not too claustrophobic.

So you have no solutions to offer and none to, I suppose, prescribe to yourself or myself. That's disappointing. I'd at least think something as simple as treating others deserving of respect, with respect (and ignoring those who deserved to be ignored) would be helpful.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

I'm a Trump avoidant person, in my way. Though I guess it's obvious here on a2k that I try to keep up with local and world news, and that includes Trump, I have tried hard to avoid his image, which rather galls me. This is hard to do, the image being all over the place, including news articles. I still run into the image something like 30 times a day, or it seems that much. After all these long months, I've not heard his voice, on purpose, until - I tuned into the Boy Scout speech.

<Fomenting of swear words>

2 Replies

McCain is still speaking but I haven't agreed with a senator more than I do now, in a very long time.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

Oh no. I guess this means I've lost your respect.

As if it mattered. At all. Ever.

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...but if your respect is so fragile that it can be lost with one critical post then I suppose it was never long for this world...

No, it wasn't "one critical post"; it's the cumulative effect of your personalizing every difference of opinion and your armchair psychoanalysis of someone who you don't even know. I usually find your factual rebuttals interesting and even useful; what bothered me was the effort made to insult me personally because I tried to point out the odd behavior of Trump supporters in light of all the revelations of long-denied meetings between the Trump campaign committee and various Russian agents.

I don't particularly care to read personal attacks on you by liberals or personal attacks on liberals by people on the other side. I don't like the name-calling and insulting people's views by distorting their online monikers.

blatham's nationality is of no concern to me. He's the one who started the thread, that's all. He finds interesting articles and comments on them. I mentioned a long time ago that I wish there were more scholarly articles posted by Trump supporters instead of the incessant fake news stories and ugly Hillary photos. That's why I often found your posts a breath of fresh (albeit right-wing) air.

Quote:

...and so it might be a good idea to follow blatham's advice and retreat into a Resistance Echo Chamber. I hope you find it comfortable and not too claustrophobic.

(I was an early supporter of Webb and hated watching the inevitable coronation of Clinton...)

Actually I had more savage disagreements with people on the old PUP threads than I ever did with the Bush supporters at the time. Nothing like internecine warfare!

I may respond to your comments about the MSM (which are much more interesting than reading about people's perceived character flaws) when I have more time.

1 Reply

@ossobucotemp,

ossobucotemp wrote:

I'm a Trump avoidant person, in my way. Though I guess it's obvious here on a2k that I try to keep up with local and world news, and that includes Trump, I have tried hard to avoid his image, which rather galls me. This is hard to do, the image being all over the place, including news articles. I still run into the image something like 30 times a day, or it seems that much. After all these long months, I've not heard his voice, on purpose, until - I tuned into the Boy Scout speech.

<Fomenting of swear words>

I am also an avoider. Both the sight of him and the sound of his voice are intolerable.

I am ashamed of and disappointed in my fellow citizens (some family members included) who cast their votes for that self-absorbed creep without a conscience. I am ashamed of those who continue to support his presidency. They lack moral integrity.

Why aren't all the people in America shrinking away from that man under the unbearable weight of the embarrassment?

5 Replies

@Debra Law,

I really want to believe that these Trumpies are just laughing up their sleeve(kinda like Gungasnakes apparent belief in the Nodic Flood and Creationism). They just wanna gall you indeed bit they are relly as repulsed as most americans and are a bit ashamed to state out loud that they were really conned.

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

Debra Law wrote:

I am ashamed of and disappointed in my fellow citizens (some family members included) who cast their votes for that self-absorbed creep without a conscience.

If you want people to vote for Democrats, get the Democrats to stop trying to violate the Second Amendment.

Debra Law wrote:

I am ashamed of those who continue to support his presidency. They lack moral integrity.

I'm just fine with Trump's continued presidency, and I have more moral integrity in my little toe than you have in your entire family tree.

Debra Law wrote:

Why aren't all the people in America shrinking away from that man under the unbearable weight of the embarrassment?

Because we are not embarrassed.

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@Debra Law,

Debra Law wrote:

I am also an avoider. Both the sight of him and the sound of his voice are intolerable.

I am ashamed of and disappointed in my fellow citizens (some family members included) who cast their votes for that self-absorbed creep without a conscience. I am ashamed of those who continue to support his presidency. They lack moral integrity.

You should be ashamed of yourself. You freely admit that you are so consumed by hatred that you won't listen to a word of what the President of this country says. Hey, Canada welcomes your ilk. Think about it.

The sanctimonious declaration of your own "moral superiority" marks you as cheese-eating personified.

I'm sure you have no clue as to how disgusting you are to the average American, because you have no clue what they think either. You will only communicate with fellow-travelling cheese-eaters in order to trade congratulations on each other's supposed superiority. Good luck with that.

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@Debra Law,

I knew I liked ya'.

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@Debra Law,

I have family folks and friends who are both smart and sane and are Republicans, as was my mother. I argued with my mother, usual, but I don't remember that as about politics. Re my present family members, we don't natter at each others' views.

Yet.

0 Replies

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