192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 03:29 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
2. Give specific examples of lies by Trump (being wrong isn't a lie) and then demonstrate that Clinton didn't lie much.
How many fact check operations do you need to survey in order to answer that for yourself? Serious question. Is there a single such operation that has not found that Trump is unique as a political figure in the frequency of his falsehoods and the blatant nature of them?

You have the option here of denying the validity of any such or even all such. Your probably rationale in doing so would be "media bias". And your grounds for establishing that would be - their findings.

Rather obviously, the danger (and it's real) is rejection of any information which does not correspond with your wishes. It is a rejection of the notion that objective facts either do not exist or are unattainable. It is the acceptance of an epistemological framing which holds relativism as the best to be hoped for.
cicerone imposter
 
  5  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 05:24 pm
@blatham,
I think I saw someplace that Trump lies over 70% of the time. Might have been politifact.
This article says 74%. http://www.diversityinc.com/news/trumps-pattern-of-lies-resembles-basic-propaganda/

Well, the American people voted him as our president, so it now doesn't matter.

Quote:
According to Politifact, the non-partisan fact-checking group that analyzed 71 statements made by Trump since he announced his campaign in June, none of his statements were completely true — zero.
reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 06:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

Well, the American people voted him as our president, so it now doesn't matter.


So you are OK with lies because you think they do not matter? Shocked
RABEL222
 
  1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 06:29 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
So you are OK with lies because you think they do not matter? Shocked


I used to think you were an honest individual. But this post shows your reading comprehension is zero or you are intentionally misinterpreting what he said. This is a lie. He is saying tRump is elected president so it dosent make any difference that he lied. People like you sucked his bull shyt up like it was honey.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 06:38 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

How many fact check operations do you need to survey in order to answer that for yourself? Serious question. Is there a single such operation that has not found that Trump is unique as a political figure in the frequency of his falsehoods and the blatant nature of them?

You have the option here of denying the validity of any such or even all such. Your probably rationale in doing so would be "media bias". And your grounds for establishing that would be - their findings.

Rather obviously, the danger (and it's real) is rejection of any information which does not correspond with your wishes. It is a rejection of the notion that objective facts either do not exist or are unattainable. It is the acceptance of an epistemological framing which holds relativism as the best to be hoped for.


You have not provided us with an objective answer to the,apparently rhetorical, question you posed at the opening of this statement. You are in effect positing that Trump is a consistent liar, in error or something like that. Absent that fondation your following conclusions are empty.

Certainly the rejection of information, merely because it does not conform to ones wishes is indeed an illogical action, as you say. . However such an action in no way constitutes the assertion that objective facts are unknowable or non exixtant, or for that matter that only relative judgments are available.

There are additional complications here. Since the inner thoughts and motives of others are not objectively knowable one cannot, with absolute certainty affirm that another person is knowingly lying. Certainly in many cases one armed with collateral knwledge or information can deduce a very reliable opinion on the matter (sufficient under our law), but it is still a deduction, not objective fact.

In some cases indeed relativism, as you put it, is all that is available to us.
reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 07:00 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
People like you sucked his bull shyt up like it was honey.


No I did not like Trump and I still don't but I do have to be honest with myself and understand that even people that I do not like can and will at times do good things. If a person were to be bad all the time they would be locked up.

By the way I was playing with cicerone
old europe
 
  5  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 07:15 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
There are additional complications here. Since the inner thoughts and motives of others are not objectively knowable one cannot, with absolute certainty affirm that another person is knowingly lying.


Philosophical musings about how one can never really know whether or not someone is lying merely because they are making statements that are verifiably false don't seem to be a particularly helpful standard for holding people accountable.

It seems to me.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 07:17 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
By the way I was playing with cicerone


OK. But from what I can see President tRump is saving the 1% lots of money now that they no longer have to pay off the congress. They can change everything they want through the president. Noticed that so far only billionaires are part of the presidential party.
roger
 
  5  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 07:20 pm
@RABEL222,
Sure. We elected a billionaire to appoint a bunch of billionaires to solve all our problems.

Real smart, aren't we.
giujohn
 
  0  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 07:22 pm
Trump said he would convince Carrier to keep those 1400 jobs here in America...guess he didn't lie about that huh? And he's not even President yet...what the **** did Obammy do to help those people? Not a god damn thing. Nice Xmas for those people...yeah he's gonna be a real terrible President. (Dumb Asses)
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 07:26 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

Sure. We elected a billionaire to appoint a bunch of billionaires to solve all our problems.

Real smart, aren't we.


Is there something about "billionaires" that makes them unfit to lead? As I've said elsewhere, all else being equal, I would rather have a person in office who doesn't NEED the salary paid by the office he seeks.

Billionaires have demonstrated the ability to be highly successful at *something,* even if it's just making (and saving) money. Too bad this country hasn't done better at that. A 20 trillion dollar debt doesn't say anything good about those who created it or the system they have constructed.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 07:27 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
Noticed that so far only billionaires are part of the presidential party.


We are all guilty of only wanting to surround ourselves with people that we agree with. I think that people I disagree with may be better at some things than I would be. I do think that one of our largest problem facing humanity is and has always been an ethical problem.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 07:30 pm
@old europe,
I agree. As we both know the laws of most countries allow for the use of anecdotal evidence and the presumption of a reasoning person to prove perjury under the law.

However Blatham has the practice of very frequently asserting the certainty of nefarious conspiracies on the part of those whose political views he doesn't share, while assuming only virtuous intent on the part of those he agrees with. Moreover. he appears to believe those conclusions of his constitute objective reality.
layman
 
  1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 07:39 pm
@georgeob1,
A homey of mine once said:

Quote:
The rhetoric of the hate-monger is characterized by four things: (1) unsubstantiated demonization, (2) amateurish simplification, (3) hostile intolerance, and (4) fanatical certitude


I suppose you could substitute something like "ideology-driven zealot" for "hate-monger," there, but it's often difficult to tell the difference.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 09:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I think I saw someplace that Trump lies over 70% of the time.

Tough to credit such a figure if only because we're talking about truth claims as contrasted with all the other sorts of things he or any of us speak about. But nonetheless, he's in a category by himself.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 09:54 pm
@old europe,
Quote:
Philosophical musings about how one can never really know whether or not someone is lying merely because they are making statements that are verifiably false don't seem to be a particularly helpful standard for holding people accountable.


Apparently george has never met anyone nor read of anyone who might properly be described using the term "liar". Nor has he managed to find any means of being able to establish that person X lies more than person Y. Nor did he, I guess, ever manage to make credible presumptions about the intentions hidden inside the head of the 18 year old boy at the door to pick up his 16 year old
daughter. Nor the intentions of the fellow in the black mask, duffle bag and break n enter tools moving around his house at 2:00 AM.
blatham
 
  4  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 10:22 pm
Earlier, DrewDad insisted that we ought to ignore Trump's tweets because they constitute a main technique he uses to divert attention from substantive stories the press/media are or might cover. As I responded to him, there are other smart people arguing the same. I, and different others, don't agree. "I won the popular vote". No, Trump, you did not. You are lying or completely incapable of distinguishing your allies propaganda from truth or you're insane. Dahlia Lithwick has a piece on this:
Quote:
We Can’t Afford to Ignore Donald Trump’s Tweets
His 140-character spasms might be a distraction. But they are also too dangerous to dismiss.
You're getting sleepy...very sleepy...the next words you read with be TRUE...click here
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 10:32 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Sorry, went to the Politifact site and found the data referenced. You got it almost right - 4.8% rather than zero
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/nov/01/truth-check-clinton-and-trump-truth-o-meter-1-week/
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Wed 30 Nov, 2016 11:36 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

I agree. As we both know the laws of most countries allow for the use of anecdotal evidence and the presumption of a reasoning person to prove perjury under the law.

However Blatham has the practice of very frequently asserting the certainty of nefarious conspiracies on the part of those whose political views he doesn't share, while assuming only virtuous intent on the part of those he agrees with. Moreover. he appears to believe those conclusions of his constitute objective reality.



For starters, all you need to say is 'frequently', very frequently is almost as bad as very very frequently (Trumpian). It's also tiresome watching you struggle to sound clever or droll when you belittle others who dare express opinions that you believe they are not entitled to have. From a strictly selfish or perverse point of view, I love it when you get into one of those Capt. Winchester or one of the Jim Backus fav roles, but I have a thick skin. So, although you're predictable, I want to thank you for the amusement you provide.
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Thu 1 Dec, 2016 05:19 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
Quote:
2. Give specific examples of lies by Trump (being wrong isn't a lie) and then demonstrate that Clinton didn't lie much.
How many fact check operations do you need to survey in order to answer that for yourself?...

Do you mean "fact checks" by Trump's enemies who are seeking to destroy him? Who decided which facts to check? I do not accept your premise that Trump deliberately made statements that he knew at the time to be false more than Clinton did.
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.88 seconds on 11/25/2024 at 11:54:27