192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 01:14 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

Quote:
Electoral College sees record-breaking defections

The seven so-called “faithless” votes cast by members of the Electoral College on Monday may go down as a noisy footnote to an otherwise chaotic 2016 election. But they also represent a historic breach between electors and the candidates they were expected to vote for.

The number of faithless votes has now become the most-ever cast in a single presidential election. The record was set in 1808, when six Democratic-Republican electors opposed James Madison. It’s also the first time since 1832 in which more than a single elector cast a faithless vote.


This, of course followed a record breaking bout of mass hysteria on the part of many Democrats and diehard Hillary devotees, and with it, an equally record-breaking mass effort to intimidate electors and defy our constitutional process.

In itself this was a largely harmless phenomenon that, ironically, will likely do the Democrats far more harm than good. Some of their political opponents are outraged others merely bemused , but all more united. Meanwhile the Democrats appear to still be stuck in denial, backward thinking, and wasting time.

I think the only objectionable element of the whole sorry debacle is the claims (such as the one made by Blatham above) this this is somehow representative of anything more than what I have described.
Debra Law
 
  2  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 01:17 pm
Perhaps this link has been posted before, but I think it is worthy of more than one look. It is food for thought and optimism:

Why conservatives start culture wars and liberals win them

By  Stephen Prothero 

Quote:
As a historian, I’m not optimistic that our culture wars will end anytime soon. These angry disputes about the meaning of America, and who is a true American, have been raging since the early days of our nation. We’ve lurched from one cultural conflict to the next. A loss in one battle further convinces culture warriors that our society is going to hell. So they cast about for another grievance — another “them” to blame for what is happening to “us.” In this way, the culture wars are perpetually rising from the dead.

As I investigated America’s culture wars from Jefferson to Obama, I found that they follow a predictable pattern. They tend to start on the right, with conservatives anxious about some cultural change. Yet conservatives almost always lose, because they lash themselves to lost causes. That’s how this latest round in our culture wars is likely to conclude, too. If you fear (as I do) what a President Trump might do, remember that the promise to build a Mexico-financed border wall or to ban Muslims from entering the country are as lost as causes can be.


more at the link

(Edited to include author's name)
tony5732
 
  0  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 01:21 pm
@Debra Law,
Let's watch some info wars.....
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 01:41 pm
@Debra Law,
Your cited author here is using a bit of easily detected sophistry to make an otherwise indefensible point. In his review of "culture wars" from President Jackson until now he has implicitly assigned "conservative" as the label for whatever forces were resisting the change in question, regardless of how their views then might relate to those labelled "conservative today. This is a rather elementary tautological fallacy, and I am surprised that any real historian (if indeed he is one) would make such an obvious error.

A lot of pretense and hot air demonstrating nothing.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 01:47 pm
@Debra Law,
I think what happened was the evolutionary changes to what we used to call conservatism primarily advocating small government. They transformed themselves into fighting equality; notably gay marriage.
I'm not so sure that's a good fight for them.
Debra Law
 
  3  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 02:37 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

blatham wrote:

Quote:
Electoral College sees record-breaking defections

The seven so-called “faithless” votes cast by members of the Electoral College on Monday may go down as a noisy footnote to an otherwise chaotic 2016 election. But they also represent a historic breach between electors and the candidates they were expected to vote for.

The number of faithless votes has now become the most-ever cast in a single presidential election. The record was set in 1808, when six Democratic-Republican electors opposed James Madison. It’s also the first time since 1832 in which more than a single elector cast a faithless vote.


This, of course followed a record breaking bout of mass hysteria on the part of many Democrats and diehard Hillary devotees, and with it, an equally record-breaking mass effort to intimidate electors and defy our constitutional process.

In itself this was a largely harmless phenomenon that, ironically, will likely do the Democrats far more harm than good. Some of their political opponents are outraged others merely bemused , but all more united. Meanwhile the Democrats appear to still be stuck in denial, backward thinking, and wasting time.

I think the only objectionable element of the whole sorry debacle is the claims (such as the one made by Blatham above) this this is somehow representative of anything more than what I have described.


Yes, "mass hysteria" seems to explain everything. One could say Trump's election is the culmination of mass right wing hysteria that followed Obama's election and never waned. See, e.g., Over the Cliff: How Obama's Election Drove the American Right Insane.

Then again, perhaps causes of such things are more complex and worthy of more intense exploration and thought.

The alternative to having a thoughtful discussion might be to exchange insults such as the one you provided: "Democrats appear to still be stuck in denial, backward thinking, and wasting time." Or we can just let you, georgeob1, do all of our thinking for us because you have announced on many occasions how much better you are at the job.
0 Replies
 
tony5732
 
  0  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 02:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
We have extremists and so does the left. I don't have a problem with equality, but than lets be equal. I don't have a problem with gay marriage. I have more of a problem with people bring forced against their religion to bake wedding cakes for gay people. I don't have a problem with free speech, but then why can't a person have a confederate flag on their car? Liberal mentality is one sided. It seems from my perspective it boils down to "blame whitey, we want free stuff."

I am honestly trying to change my perspective and I really want a third party president in my lifetime.
revelette1
 
  2  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 02:59 pm
@tony5732,
The Confederate flag represents the southern states during the war against slavery. Consider the following by Robert E. Lee concerning symbols of the war: "I think it wiser moreover not to keep open the sores of war,"

See here

As for the other, the cake people:

Quote:
Longstanding Colorado state law prohibits public accommodations, including businesses such as Masterpiece Cakeshop, from refusing service based on factors such as race, sex, marital status or sexual orientation. Mullins and Craig filed complaints with the Colorado Civil Rights Division (CCRD) contending that Masterpiece had violated this law. Earlier this year, the CCRD ruled that Phillips illegally discriminated against Mullins and Craig. Today’s decision from Judge Robert N. Spencer of the Colorado Office of Administrative Courts affirms that finding.


source
The two are in no way equal.
tony5732
 
  1  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 03:06 pm
@revelette1,
I understand the meaning behind the flag (it actually has several depending on who uses it and what for). My argument is that even if it IS racist, it's still free speech.

Freedom of speech is the right to articulate one's opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship, or societal sanction.
Wikipedia

So if somebody, even if being racist or ignorant, wants to post the confederate flag on their car, why can't they?
tony5732
 
  0  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 03:10 pm
@revelette1,
As for the cake, I get there is a law, I just disagree that there should be. The person you have sex with/ marry is a choice. If that choice is not working with someone's religion, they should not have to support that choice.
Debra Law
 
  3  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 03:10 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Your cited author here is using a bit of easily detected sophistry to make an otherwise indefensible point. In his review of "culture wars" from President Jackson until now he has implicitly assigned "conservative" as the label for whatever forces were resisting the change in question, regardless of how their views then might relate to those labelled "conservative today. This is a rather elementary tautological fallacy, and I am surprised that any real historian (if indeed he is one) would make such an obvious error.

A lot of pretense and hot air demonstrating nothing.


It's the ideology that counts. For instance, that is why it is repugnant for present day Republicans to take credit for the emancipation of slaves because Abe Lincoln was a Republican. I understand that modern day conservatives often take credit for the past achievements of progressives. But please, give me an example from our country's ongoing "culture wars" where conservatives were the ones who stepped forward to champion the cause of the oppressed.
roger
 
  5  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 03:30 pm
@tony5732,
I agree that we can't know the mind of everyone who displays that flag. For some it really is a symbol of southern culture. For some, it is probably in honor of a truly enormous number of soldiers and citizens killed and injured in a war most of them didn't choose.

If we had some way of knowing it were actually racist, I would support banning. We are presently unable to read minds and I hope it stays that way.
tony5732
 
  0  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 03:31 pm
@Debra Law,
Woodrow Wilson, Jim crow Laws.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 03:34 pm
@Debra Law,
I love how the left likes to interchange Republican and conservative depending on what point in history they want to talk about. According to them the GOP never did anything for anyone, even when it was the GOP who did those things. They never want to admit that the Democrats controlled the south from the time of reconstruction until the mid 1990's when the first GOP governor was elected. They never want to admit that it was Dems who started the KKK, that's when the label flips start taking place. Can't have anything bad attached to the Dems and can't have anything good attached to the GOP.

Why do you think it is so important for the left-wing to control the education system?
tony5732
 
  0  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 03:38 pm
@roger,
Even if it's racist, why ban it? People today are saying anti-white stuff all the time, it's freedom of speech. Nobody should have any of there opinions banned, ever.
tony5732
 
  1  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 03:58 pm
@tony5732,
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it". Evelyn Beatrice Hall

For all you people who like hearing about people who say stuff.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 03:59 pm
Quote:
Should someone in the Trump administration cross the line, Gingrich has a potential answer for that too.

“In the case of the president, he has a broad ability to organize the White House the way he wants to. He also has, frankly, the power of the pardon,” Gingrich said. “It’s a totally open power. He could simply say, ‘Look, I want them to be my advisers. I pardon them if anyone finds them to have behaved against the rules. Period. Technically, under the Constitution, he has that level of authority.”
LINK
Isn't that just the coolest thing you've ever heard? The GOP led Congress can change all the ethics codes and laws pertaining to the President and family making billions from their position of power. And if that doesn't work out right for the kids, then Trump can just pardon them.

Now that is what the founders intended. Make America Great Again.
blatham
 
  3  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 04:04 pm
@tony5732,
Quote:
People today are saying anti-white stuff all the time

Whites are under siege. And almost anywhere you look, they have been victimized and cast out of the corridors of power and influence. Just try to find a white person in a government post or in public office. Rare, incredibly rare. Possibly whites are on the verge of extinction.
maporsche
 
  3  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 04:05 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

I love how the left likes to interchange Republican and conservative depending on what point in history they want to talk about. According to them the GOP never did anything for anyone, even when it was the GOP who did those things. They never want to admit that the Democrats controlled the south from the time of reconstruction until the mid 1990's when the first GOP governor was elected. They never want to admit that it was Dems who started the KKK, that's when the label flips start taking place. Can't have anything bad attached to the Dems and can't have anything good attached to the GOP.

Why do you think it is so important for the left-wing to control the education system?


Of the two parties TODAY in 2016, which one do the racists identify most closely with?

That's all that matters Baldimo.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 20 Dec, 2016 04:09 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:


It's the ideology that counts. For instance, that is why it is repugnant for present day Republicans to take credit for the emancipation of slaves because Abe Lincoln was a Republican. I understand that modern day conservatives often take credit for the past achievements of progressives. But please, give me an example from our country's ongoing "culture wars" where conservatives were the ones who stepped forward to champion the cause of the oppressed.


I agree with your opening statement about ideology, but dispute your conclusion about championing the oppressed. Republicans have always been for individual liberty and freedom of action, while modern Democrats , seeing themselves as champions of the oppressed, busily create authoritarian structures to give themselves more power and control of public money, ostensibly on behalf of chosen oppressed people, whom they treated loke pawns in their overly complex plans - all of which act to expand their personal and political power. Whether this is forethought and deliberate or merely a pleasant byproduct of sappy thinking is largely immaterial. Liberal politicians and bureaucrats are always among the chief beneficiaries of such programs.

The plantations Democrats propose and operate today are merely contemporary models for the benign elements of the plantations of the 18th and early 19th centruies. In fact they have done real harm, rewarding self-destructive behavior on the part of those they are "helping", encouraging the rise of the worst, most exploitive leaders from within those groups, all while ignoring, and sometiomes hindering, constructive individual behavior for self-improvement on the part of theose they are "helping".

 

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