@Walter Hinteler,
This guy Sabo would definitely have some fans among the posters here. Definitely a kindred spirit.
@revelette1,
You understand why.
The Dems resemble Republicans more closely than they resemble the progressive wing of their own party. Dems said they would continue on their preferred path, and they didn't need the progressives.
The establishment Dems made their choice.
They actively earned the #DemExit
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/bernie-sanders-may-have-won-even-though-jon-ossoff-lost-2555176
An excerpt
Ossoff’s loss will likely fuel criticism by the party’s Sanders-led progressive wing that the Democratic establishment is too corporate and conservative to serve as a viable alternative to Republicans, and that only by presenting a progressive platform can the party regain relevance.
Ossoff explicitly campaigned against single-payer healthcare and tax increases for the rich, and was rewarded by Democratic donors with $24 million in donations and another $8 million in outside spending. By contrast, Democratic special election candidates in Montana and Kansas campaigned on more progressive platforms and were outspent by large margins.
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The Bernie candidates, progressive Democrats, are shut out of the funding and other party assistance that the corporate Democrats get.
It does look like the Democrats are irretrievably broken, and the progressives may as well form a new party.
@Lash,
I understand that is your belief, you have been espousing it for quite some time now. It makes a good slogan. However, the actual votes for Sanders and his backers haven't shown you to be right. The whole left is on a losing streak whether it way left or somewhat left.
@Lash,
Quote:It does look like the Democrats are irretrievably broken, and the progressives may as well form a new party.
It would be more honest if they did. But they will never do it.
@revelette1,
Truthfully, if Bernie would announce it, it would happen with blinding speed. To make such an enormous move, it's so much easier to coalesce around someone with popularity. There are a couple of other people who could put it together.
I don't think he wants to go down in history as the guy who gutted the Dem party. He doesn't realize what people are still calling the democrat party long ago ceased to be the party of the people. Bernie would be putting it out of its misery.
This article speaks on the subject from the progressive viewpoint.
https://medium.com/@yvonneclaes/ossoff-defeat-proves-dems-would-rather-piss-away-money-than-shift-to-the-left-d85eb6e13dc4
The tensions that have been growing in the Democrat party over the last year or so between the far left Sanders progressives (or socialists as they were once called) is fairly well described in the dialogue between Lash & Revelette above. I believe the Democrat establishment is convinced that despite the enthusiasm generated by Sanders' supporters during the primary, they couldn't win then and they can't win now, mostly because of the equally fierce opposition generated in the wider electorate. Moreover the establishment understandably wishes to remain in power as it is.
A consequence is that, beyond the "Trump Resistance" the Democrat establishment appears to have no particular platform or plan. They resist but avoid any participation in the prescribed democratic processes for creating laws and policy, preferring to undermine the current administration by any means available.
The recent special Congressional election results, which yielded 5 wins and zero losses for Republican candidates, involve a complex of local and national factors and indicators for current trends and some uncertainties as well. However one factor that merits consideration is negative reactions among some in the electorate to the Democrat "resistance" itself. This is an element in play along with the struggle between the far left and establishment in the Democrat party that will likely become more important as time passes. What effect will this have on the contemporary struggles?
The quality of political partisanship in our country has become very destructive. Thucydides, in 'The Peloponnesian War described something very similar (and similarly destructive) in the Fourth Century BC domestic politics of an island city in the Adriatic, Corcyra (now Corfu) that spilled over to Corinth and ultimately to Athens and Sparta igniting a long internecine war that ended Greek dominance in the region. Thucydides addressed the destructive effects of human nature in the domestic political struggles in Corcyra that ignited the long and destructive war, including the observations that "Words had to change their ordinary meaning and to take that which was now given them, because what had once been considered extreme and unreasonable behavior was know considered accepted." .... "Reckless audacity came to be considered the courage of a loyal ally; prudent hesitation, specious cowardice" His conclusion was that, ""human nature, always rebelling against the law and now its master, gladly showed itself ungoverned in passion, above respect for justice, and the enemy of all superiority".. The ensuing war quickly made the elements of the domestic conflict in Corcyra quite irrelevant as the cities and the parties involved in the domestic conflicts were swept away in the war that followed. It all sounds fairly familiar.
@georgeob1,
Quote:A consequence is that, beyond the "Trump Resistance" the Democrat establishment appears to have no particular platform or plan. They resist but avoid any participation in the prescribed democratic processes for creating laws and policy, preferring to undermine the current administration by any means available.
Some would say they are merely taking a page from the successful Republican playbook, and not only did the GOP not suffer losses from a pure obstruction approach, they gained Congress.
Political strategist are either students or imitators of strategies they believe were successful.
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
A consequence is that, beyond the "Trump Resistance" the Democrat establishment appears to have no particular platform or plan. They resist but avoid any participation in the prescribed democratic processes for creating laws and policy, preferring to undermine the current administration by any means available.
1) The only law that can be said to be in the 'creation' stage right now is Trumpcare, and it's the Republicans who are excluding the Democratic party. Compare the current process to Obamacare. Republicans were included in meetings and policy discussions all along the way. In the end, dozens of republican sponsored amendments were included. I'm aware that Obamacare passed with a party line vote, but republicans had a seat at the table and had their amendments included. Are they now offering the Democrats the same seat?
2) There is a democratic party platform and plan for our nation, and despite what Lash would have you believe it is quite left of center in the USA. It can be found here:
https://www.democrats.org/party-platform .
@revelette1,
Apparently, Sanders still thinks that the dem party can be reformed. I think he is mistaken about that, and that he should create a new party with the goal of replacing the dems.
@maporsche,
Trumpcare
- Zero hearings, roundtables, and walkthroughs
- Zero democratic amendments
- One legislative day on the floor
Obamacare
- 100 hearings, roundtables, and walkthroughs
- 147 Republican amendments
- 25 legislative days on the floor
- 13 months of legislative process
@maporsche,
The DNC is in the midst of a transition from its former state as merely an adjunct of the campaign of an establishment candidate "whose turn had come", now in the wake of that candidate's defeat is in the hands of some left wing party functionaries. The party strategy to which I am referring has more to do with the attitudes and political calculations of elected Democrat legislators and prospective candidates as they sample the political air about them. That part is as yet unclear and still evolving.
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Apparently, Sanders still thinks that the dem party can be reformed. I think he is mistaken about that, and that he should create a new party with the goal of replacing the dems.
This is the hope of every progressive I've interacted with.
@maporsche,
The Dems sure can arrange words on a page, can't they? Nobody other than Deadheads buy it.
@Lash,
Quote:Truthfully, if Bernie would announce it, it would happen with blinding speed.
If that (Bernie fans forming their own party) happens, you won't hear me crying about it. Sometimes the saying "with friends like these"...comes to mind when I think of die hard Bernie fans.
@revelette1,
A Bernie party wouldn't even get 15% of the vote. Most Americans are much closer to the center than they are to either wing.
@georgeob1,
Any thoughts on my comment around the legislative process and your assertion that Democrats are not trying to take part?
@maporsche,
True, even though we lost in Georgia (it is a very conservative district, it would have been quite a coup to have won it)I think, the DNC is on the right track with courting the more centrist voters (moderate republicans) in mid America where we lost the presidential election. It might take a few years, but I think the electors are changing.
