@hightor,
higtor wrote:Finn, Mr. Trump won't be removed from office without clear evidence of wrongdoing and wide scale popular resentment of his presidency.
Well we'll see hightor. Obviously I'm not quite as confident of this as you are. I hope you are right because if you are not the Union is in a lot of trouble.
Quote:He was elected, not by all of us, but to represent all of us.
He was legally elected through the system our democratic republic has abided by for over 200 years. The people who didn't vote for him can detest him if they please, but he is their president, and he does represent them. Whether or not Trump has done a good or any kind of job in reaching out to the people who he represents but didn't vote for him is immaterial to his legal status as president.
We the people are owed a government that is formed through the election process we are guaranteed under our constitution. Such consistent stability benefits Democrats as much as it benefits Republicans.
Quote:Suspicious behavior regarding contacts with Russian by his campaign staff while the country was being flooded with leaked material probably hacked by Russian operatives led to the current investigations. The investigations will determine the extent of Mr. Trump's culpability — which may be nothing. He is known to have had pretty extensive contacts with figures referred to as the "Russian Mafia" but those contacts themselves are not illegal. But that is part of the reason for the suspicion. His tax records should serve him well if he has nothing to hide. Let the investigation proceed.
This is rather naive. Trump's opposition has been bound and determined to take him down since he won the election, if there was never a "Russian Influence" matter they would have found something else. It doesn't mean that there isn't a possibility of collusion only that it's disingenuous to suggest that absent any cause for suspicion of same we would be in a much different America right now.
Quote:On another front there are ethical concerns raised in the suit by Maryland and the D.C. — here again, he's been particularly tin-eared when it comes possible conflicts of interest. Whether his actions are illegal or not will be settled in the courts.
There are ethical concerns and abuse of power issues with every presidential administration. The opposition party makes the most out of them while the president's party (with rare exception) defends him. If similar suits had been filed for similar reasons during the Obama administration they would have been brought by Republicans, not Democrats. If they are frivilious and baseless a non-partisan judge will toss them. If they have any merit or they are brought before a partisan judge like the hack in Seattle (and before you go there, yes there are hack Republican partisan judges) they will move forward, and ultimately to the USC if necessary. That's our system but it doesn't mean it doesn't get abused for political purposes and there is political intent behind these suits. If there is no merit to these suits but they drag on for years it will benefit the opposition, but it won't benefit the American people who expect their government to operate in their interest within the context of a political framework intended to assure that to the full extent possible the interests of all Americans are taken into consideration and policies and programs that benefit the broadest range of those interests are the result. Obviously this is an aspirational notion and in reality it doesn't always work precisely this way, but we have moved to a point where it is never working this way, and rather than a government working within the context of politics we have politics working within the context of government.
Quote:Mr. Trump's most rabid supporters said they wanted someone who would shake up the establishment, no more "business as usual". Well, this is what that looks like. This is why we normally don't elect politically-inexperienced pop culture icons to high office. Really — what did you expect?
I was never a
rabid Trump supporter and I voted for him based on the hope that he would shake up the Establishment. Your use of the term "rabid" suggests you think the notion is extreme to the point of involving mental illness, and your question that ends the above paragraph suggests you include me in this group for which you have so much disdain. It may not matter one whit to you, but I don't appreciate either suggestion.
It would have been naive to think that the Establishment would not resist any efforts made to shake it up, but I will admit that I didn't expect this level of resistance, and so maybe I too was naive. This need not have been the way it played out, but if it was, it certainly doesn't mean it would have played out differently if the effort was launched by a politically experienced leader. I would argue that the fear and desperation of Establishment forces would have been even higher if they thought they were under assault by someone with competence and even skill. As well, a reaction that is expected doesn't have to be accepted.
It says something very troubling about the future of our nation, if attempts to shake up a corrupt system that operates to benefit its members more than the people it serves (Something that people on both sides of the aisle have been decrying for some time now) results in the chaotic turmoil we see today. If in the end, the Establishment is shaken up, the swamp is drained, and DC operates more as it was intended to, then this turmoil will have been worth it (that can, btw, happen even if Trump is found to be truly guilty of
material high crimes and misdemeanors and is removed...unlikely, but Trump isn't the only leader who can accomplish what needs to be done). If on the other hand it does not, then it won't only be Republicans who should feel very disappointed. The folks who supported Bernie Sanders were looking for the same thing as the
rabid supporters of Trump: A shake-up in the Establishment. There's no reason to believe that an Establishment that won't allow a Republican president to shake it up would welcome a trip to the mix-master induced by a Democratic one.
Quote:I'm not saying I expected a Clinton presidency to be running any more smoothly — the 2016 election was a disaster waiting to happen with either outcome. The only way out I can see is the emergence of a new centrist party and the implementation of ranked choice voting. Not very realistic, I know. May be there is no solution. Maybe, thinking we could have it all and that the post-war economic boom would continue without consequences forever, we simply outsmarted ourselves. It's not as if the other western democracies are doing that much better.
I have to agree that, at least for me, the choice presented to us in the 2106 election was never thrilling, never inspiring, and filled with anxiety and depression. For all of his flaws, Trump, at least, presented the possibility of shaking up the Establishment. Clinton was the worst of the Establishment personified.
There may be several ways out of this mess and a third party could be one, but our increasingly tribal tendencies are being shaped and reinforced by societal trends and factors that exist outside of DC politics (e.g. social media, and increasing choice in all things) and so I'm not sanguine about the positive impact of a " centrist" third party, because I don't think even a very sizable minority of the American people really want one. They might be initially attracted to candidates who eschew fiery rhetoric for serious and informed appeals for common sense compromise, but for too many people there really is no ground for compromise, it's increasingly becoming a black & white and even a Manichean nation. Of course I could be wrong, but as I've predicted before, the future of the Union is bleak. I won't argue that it is doomed, but I don't see the sort of trend reversal required happening. It may be as much as much as 50 years away or it could all blow up because of the Trump Presidency and all that it has entailed.
Another solution might be the sinking of the entire population into utter apathy with a strong enough social safety net to keep people from rocking the boat. Unfortunately a strong social safety net won't be enough to satisfy the myriad of grievances (some serious, most petty) of ever more specifically defined groups of Americans, and the cost of a safety net strong enough to satisfy the materialism of most Americans is unsustainable, even for a short period.
I may be sinking into a permanent state of defeatism, because I don't see enough signs that the United States of America has the potential to rebound, but I'm not bullish on the future of that entity, and I am less and less inclined to find it a sacred trust that must be preserved for all time.