192
   

monitoring Trump and relevant contemporary events

 
 
McGentrix
 
  -3  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:16 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
Not being under investigation is pretty damned good assurance that one isn't guilty. If not guilty, then they must be innocent.

Hmm...interesting take on it. But I disagree — innocence is meaningless unless indictments leading to charges are involved. The law says the speed limit on a causeway that I drive on a nearly daily basis is 40 mph. I've admittedly hit speeds of 50 mph or more on this route. I haven't been caught (yet) and as far as I know I am not the subject of an investigation — but I would not claim to be "innocent".


With regards to the law, you are innocent. I am not speaking to some obscure moral code one might have, I am actually talking about the law and how it is applied. If you aren't caught, you are innocent until it's been proven that you are guilty.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  5  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:17 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

This sounds nice and high minded but did you express the same outrage when it was learned HRC threatened someone with an IRS audit?

The fact of the matter is that the FBI is not independent of the Executive branch or the President. It must remain independent of corrupt influence as you argue, but that hardly means Comey should have been free to run the FBI anyway he thought was proper.


OMG. I abhor Hillary. You're throwing your rotten tomatoes in the wrong direction.
layman
 
  -3  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:19 pm
Trump has, and has had all along, the power to pardon Flynn immediately, even before he is charged with any crime, thereby permanently ending all investigation of him.

Needless to say he can also order any pending investigation of Flynn to be dropped (which he has never done, but.....)
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:19 pm
@Debra Law,
Well then good for you. You only needed to have answered "No" though.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  4  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
You find this problematic but not Trump is a liar, Comey speaks the truth?

When has Comey ever gone on Twitter or made public appearances directly contradicting what he said only days or weeks before? Trump has done it often.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:26 pm
@layman,
This is a good point because the voices assuring us that Trump attempted to obstruct justice, relative to the Flynn investigation, assume he had something to hide (The usual bullshit about smoke and fire) and was desperate.

Now if I were guilty of a crime and knew that there was only one guy who could bring me down, but I could cement his loyalty (and silence) by giving him a full pardon, I don't think I take the chance of just trying to pressure the DA. I'd save my ass and worry about the fallout afterwards.

Of course the expected response to this is "It just goes to show you what an idiot Trump is, he probably didn't even know about presidential pardons"
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:27 pm
@Blickers,
So you believe Comey is a paragon of virtue or a less obvious liar?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:29 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Your conceit is unassailable--but not either your knowledge of the constitution nor of legal statute.

My knowledge of the Constitution and law are equally as unassailable. You will fail in any attempt to demonstrate any errors in my arguments.


Setanta wrote:
If you are someone's employer, and you order them to do an illegal act, you are just as culpable as that poor fool if he or she carries out your wishes.

That's nice. But since exercising discretion over which cases to pursue is not illegal, it doesn't have much to do with what is going on with Trump.


Setanta wrote:
I suspect that your adulation of President Plump blinds you to logic as well as knowledge of the constitution and of law.

You will find that assailing my logic is just as futile as assailing my knowledge.


Setanta wrote:
The president proposes, but Congress disposes. If at any time, Congress were not happy with the FBI, the constitution gives them to power not only to create executive branch agencies, but to abolish them, too.

That doesn't change the fact that the President has 100% power over the executive branch.


Setanta wrote:
Furthermore, as defined by the Supremes in Morrison versus Olson, 1988, the Director of the FBI is an inferior executive branch officer, and can only be appointed or dismissed with congressional approval.

That as well does not change the fact that the President has 100% power over the executive branch.


Setanta wrote:
The only thing unassailable about your posts is your display of invincible ignorance.

Wrong. You have failed to point out a single fact that I am wrong about. Your claim of ignorance on my part is untrue.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:31 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Now if I were guilty of a crime and knew that there was only one guy who could bring me down, but I could cement his loyalty (and silence) by giving him a full pardon, I don't think I take the chance of just trying to pressure the DA.

Try again. Presidents have tried to stop investigations of people close to them before. Your tortured excuse is shot down.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:33 pm
@Blickers,
And therefore Trump must be doing the same?

People have been unjustly accused before. Not a precedent?

Edit: And shot down by what or whom? Your post? Don't make me laugh.

Blickers
 
  4  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:35 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
So you believe Comey is a paragon of virtue or a less obvious liar?

Comey's been around a long time, and nobody has challenged his honesty. Trump's been president for a four months, and everybody's seen him reverse himself, publicly, countless times.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:36 pm
@Blickers,
Sooooo... Throughout the 2016 campaign you were a constant fan of Comey?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:37 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Now if I were guilty of a crime and knew that there was only one guy who could bring me down, but I could cement his loyalty (and silence) by giving him a full pardon, I don't think I take the chance of just trying to pressure the DA. I'd save my ass and worry about the fallout afterwards.
I suppose, the pardon would be valid - but could it be that you committed with the misuse of the pardon is a crime?
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:37 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Now if I were guilty of a crime and knew that there was only one guy who could bring me down, but I could cement his loyalty (and silence) by giving him a full pardon, I don't think I take the chance of just trying to pressure the DA. I'd save my ass and worry about the fallout afterwards.

Try again. Presidents have tried to stop investigations of people close to them before. Your tortured excuse is shot down.

I don't understand your point (or how it contradicts Finn's point).

Surely you agree that presidents have the power to pardon federal offenses?
Blickers
 
  4  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:39 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote Finn:
Quote:
And therefore Trump must be doing the same?

Don't twist my words. You tried to dismiss the idea as absurd that if Trump wanted to stop an investigation, he would pressure the head of the agency investigating him. I merely pointed out that Presidents have done that before, so the idea is not absurd, as you would characterize it.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:41 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Comey's been around a long time, and nobody has challenged his honesty.

I challenge Comey's honesty.

The way he gave a misleading impression that Trump could have committed obstruction was highly dishonorable.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:42 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I'm not sure of this, but I don't think presidential pardons are not subject to review. Recall Clinton's pardon of the flimflam man whose name I can't recall, most likely because his wife donated millions to his cause and may have even been a sexual partner of his.

But they do tend to wait until the very end of their terms in the hopes of avoiding fallout, however if Trump is the desperate felon so many think he is, I would think he would arrive at the conclusion that it was better to take flak than irons. Maybe he still will.
camlok
 
  1  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:43 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
I


"I"'s uninformed opinions aren't worth anything.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:43 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Don't twist my words. You tried to dismiss the idea as absurd that if Trump wanted to stop an investigation, he would pressure the head of the agency investigating him. I merely pointed out that Presidents have done that before, so the idea is not absurd, as you would characterize it.

Your words were unclear. I didn't understand them either. But your explanation here explains what you meant. So I understand what you meant now.
Blickers
 
  3  
Sat 10 Jun, 2017 02:44 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
I don't understand your point (or how it contradicts Finn's point).

Surely you agree that presidents have the power to pardon federal offenses?

I'm well aware that presidents have the power to pardon Federal offenses. And certainly, a President making an arrangement with the object of a Federal investigation to give him a pardon as long as he didn't implicate the President or others in his circle is ONE possible way you can try to stop an investigation from getting too close. However, it is by no means the only way, and trying to dismiss as absurd the idea that any President would try to do it that way is therefore invalid.
 

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