A2K Politics Forum/Where are Our Politically Savvy Women?

How does 'passion' fit here?

The question was stimulated by mama's line involving 'running from a room in a pique'. Now, I've done this. A couple of weeks ago I reached my tether-end on the discord and took a hike.

But this sort of response (wise or unwise, mature or not quite) is dependent upon passion, and in my case, it is a passion for liberty - the liberty to act as I choose without constraint by the 'state' (of course given that my acts harm no others). Or as Isaiah Berlin put it...the liberty for humans to act diversely.

(note to ehBeth...I'd told you that when Trudeau first ran for PM, I got on board and did the poster stapling, door knocking thing. I also ordered the largest size of "Vote Liberal" lawn sign. Dad had been a union organizer, thus voted and worked for the NDP. He ordered the largest size "Vote NDP" sign for the lawn. The signs stood side by side in front of our home)

Lola, I've always been the "black sheep" in our family, but my siblings all treat me very well. They know I've had the 'hardest' life during our childhood, and marvel at how I've turned out! LOL c.i.

Know what you mean, c.i. My family is surprised to find I'm not on welfare either.

My family, both extended and immediate, contains a large contingent of lawyers. Some of them express wonder that I myself am at liberty and subject to no restraining orders or other restrictive covenants.



timber

a room full of black sheep, fun fun fun

timber, I don't know about "large," but my older brother is/was an attorney, my nephew is an attorney, and my wife's cousin is an attorney. c.i.

My immediate family is all liberal, the whole lot of us are the black sheep of the extended family. And I'm prolly the blackest of us all.

My family worshipped at the alter of FDR unitl Nixon of course I was opposed to that war. Well that was the final break I guess I really never fit in.

Lola notice my new do took your advice re appearnce.

Goodness. Well, I too, come from a family of lawyers. Persuasions of all kinds, from political to religious. And my best friend is one of my sisters-in-law, who happens to be a republican lobbyist and fundraiser in California. Those of you who know me know I am not a member of that club. But my son is a conservative, my son-in-law is republican (who was hoping for Bill Bradley last time), my daughters are democrats, and it falls upon me to educate my grandsons along the true path.

So, CI, when I say we are a large family, who frequently get together over the dinner table - believe me when I say we are not silent types.

While I was growing up (a family of girls), my father, who was a criminal defense trial lawyer, and a republican, used to like dinner conversation. And since he always seemed to consider us equal, we were always discussing something or other. He had me on Dickens when I was twelve. Sometimes, on some of the political threads, I have to walk away. Blatham, CI, others - it's easier for me to listen to you. But some of the men appear to have difficulty accepting women, and never know they are no smarter nor more perceptive. Nor do they know what they may be missing.

And, as I read this, I realize the importance of what Blatham calls passion. Without it, we sound just as dull as the next one, without an original thought or opinion. Walking away is an art. It's the pique that causes trouble.

mama, Walking away is not an art; it's wise! c.i.

I'm really liking Blatham's sports/ politics thing. It works. I was thinking more about pick-up b-ball in this context. It's just a very similar feeling. Ha! I blocked the shot. OOoh, check out that 3! Man, what a sweet pass! (Ha! I completely debunked that assertion. OOoh, let 'em dispute that! Hey, I bet patiodog will be able to finish this off with the opening I gave him.)

It's great fun to be in the MIDDLE of this, but it's not so fun to watch. I was a pretty good pick-up b-ball player, 'specially for a goil (I didn't play like a goil) but I wasn't GREAT by any means. That blocked shot was a big deal for me, the shot-blocker, but it wasn't any great shakes for the bystander. We had a great time playing, lots of high drama, elbows, trash talking, "ya wanna make something of it?", no blood no foul, etc., etc. But it was uggggggly. I watched while I waited for the next game, or maybe to pick up some moves, but aesthetically... ew.

And even within the no blood no foul framework, people sometimes were just so unsportsmanlike that I didn't want to play anymore.

So, politics -- if I'm in it, just completely debunked the assertion and want to see what kind of reaction I get, it's interesting. But if I'm just a bystander -- ugly. Once in a while, you get to see some no-look-passing, slam-dunking, amazing ballhandlers, and if I see that one of them has posted, I'll check in. And if someone grabs my wrist with one hand and wrestles the ball away with the other and claims no foul, I'm outta there. Luckily, the moderators are watching and I'm confident that they'll catch the downright unsportsmanlike stuff. That's good to know.

One caveat -- I sometimes do the sleeve-rolling, "Let's show 'em!" thing in politics, but there are also many times when there is some issue I feel strongly about and can't let it go without comment, which is different. So I guess that goes back to the passion thing.

Basketball...I was SO bad at that sport. I don't know why and it haunts me, did fine at others and excelled at most. At short, I could leap gazelle-like for the high line drive, come down on my head, spin and throw out the runner on second who'd been foolish enough to think I might miss the catch. I could always count on my body to do things right. I could pat my stomach with one hand while combing my hair into a big greasy waterfall with the other AND all this standing at the urinal. On the dance floor, I was a bugaloo storm trooper without peer. Hell, I could play the drum solo from Wipe-out with my FEET! But I could not, could not, could not play basketball worth poop.

I personally like to read the threads, whether they are political or otherwise, where there are women's voices. The total male dominated ones are a bit on the dull side for me. The female voice adds dimension and nuance to the conversation.

My family is, except for my Texas Aggie brother-in-law, of the liberal progressive persuasion...not real left, but left of center to a degree. My brother-in-law, on the other hand... well, let's put it this way, he trusted "Tricky Dick" Nixon long after the evidence was out there for all to see that he was indeed a crook. He thinks of me as too liberal and hates it when I email my sister "propaganda"!

My husband is truly of the same political persuasion as I am, but he does like to play "devil's advocate" with me during our political discussions. He says it is to get me to think more clearly of my position...yeah, sure! I think he just loves to joust or be perverse!

My mom and dad live in Texas too, transplanted Yankees that they are! Mom has been my political mentor for years. I watched the Army-McCarthy hearings with her when I was 10 or 11 years old. I have memories of Joseph Welch and Stuart Symington as my heroes!

I like to discuss with men, but I do not want to "split hairs." We can learn from each other in many ways. When someone posts from a book or an editorial piece that is interesting, I really love it. I do not like it when someone takes a post, such as littlek's post on one of the threads and cuts and pastes the entire post, then proceeds to tear it apart. That was aggressive and unnecessary.

Family upbringing is surely a key to all of this. It would be likely, I think, that the voices arguing the US move to attack Iraq is justified, will represent a much higher proportion of family military history.

But the gender issue seems entirely relevant too. I have seen very few bar fights (zero) involving women. Men fall to the physically violent more easily. Women, again in my experience, can usually be counted on to glance over at such a brawl, shake their heads in distaste and bewilderment that men of twenty or thirty or forty remain so in tune with their inner adolescent.

blatham, I'll grant that "Cat Fights" are rare, but boy, are they spectacular. They're a lot easier to break up than masculine brawls over the outcome of, say, a billiards game or football match, too. A well directed pitcher of water uniformly brings about a cessation of feminine hostilities, generally accompanied by vigorous lamentations of damage to hairdos. A barstool to the kidney will likely only further encourage a burly tradesman intent on mayhem. The wimmins is much easier on the furniture and fixtures.



timber

timber

I have to confess that I sat here waiting for you to add precisely such a post. Very nice.

Thanks. I try.


timber

It's true, women resort to the physical much less than men. It seems so to me too. But vicious, subtle battle is common among women. I think you guys must have noticed.......I'm sure you have.....unless maybe you were too busy beating up on each other's bodies. :wink:

Lola, there's just no denying that blood is more substantial than are tears ... and far easier to notice in a noisy, crowded room.
Menfolk are not much inclined to subtlety, by and large. There's something viscerally more satisfying about the crunch of breaking bones that is just not there with the whimper of hurt feelings.
All that said, a male "Winning" an argument with a female is a newsworthy event. You girl sorts play to different rules, and we guy folk have difficulty figuring out the lay of the field, the location of the goals, the shape of the ball, the penalty system, and the scoring parameters when the girls call the game.



timber