A2K Politics Forum/Where are Our Politically Savvy Women?

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Blatham has never insulted me that is for sure. I consider him a wise and considerate gentle man.

From his hidden position behind the bushes, he snickers.

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laughing......very good, y'all......

[size=7]but he is, Joanne, and as I can see from your response, you know it just embarrasses him for you to say it.[/size]

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Dear politically savvy women...

Here is an case I just noticed this morning. It involves the very tricky and sensitive issue of reproduction rights in a unique way, at least to my experience.

My personal position on the question of abortion stems from two principles:
1) the sanctity of one's own body (the wishes of the community or state ought not to trump the wishes of the individual regarding that individual's own body)
2) no particular theological understanding (or scripture) can be given a status greater than 'opinion'.

The obvious moral or ethical issue regarding abortion, which sits outside of either 1) or 2) above (though folks who argue against my two principles may also advance this moral dilemma) is that a fetus is something different from a toenail.

This case points to that dilemma in, at least for me, an unsettling way. By which I mean, it really underlines that dilemma.

Please feel free to comment on what you think.

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A judge has sentenced a Utah woman to 18 months probation for refusing a Caesarean section that doctors said would have saved her stillborn baby.

Melissa Ann Rowland, 28, was ordered by Salt Lake County District Judge Dennis Fuchs to move to Indiana, where she has family and friends and where she will undergo mental health treatment.

The woman was originally charged with criminal homicide because police said she repeatedly refused to have surgery that would save one of her twins, a son, because she said she feared being scarred by the operation...

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=516631

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Blatham is a good fella, but don't tell him I said this, he'd be crushed to find out that I'm amused by him... Smile

Finally! We have some intelligent thoughts on this topic, & I hope it continues, (life's too short for petty differences), but we all were born w/brains, & along w/that comes thought patterns... Let's use 'em, what'da ya say? Wink

Pondering in Kentucky,
Patt :wink:

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I believe w/every fiber of my being that life begins at conception... I am 45 yrs. old, never been able to have children, (not by choice, but for health reasons, not that that really matters), but I do have some serious issues personally concerning abortion. Yes, a woman should have the right to do as she wants w/her life & her body, but to kill an unborn child, (fetus), in this opinion filled person's mind is simply wrong... But there are always circumstances in which a critical decision must be made, & this topic has many options. First & foremost, if a woman or a man, does not want children, then they need to use protection in one form or another, is that not simple enough??? Just a thought...

Contemplating The Meaning of Life...
Patt Smile

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patt

This is one of those lousy areas where two principles clash. No easy way in this.

I resist the claim that 'life begins at conception', not because it doesn't make sense, but because it isn't complete. I consider an unfertilized embryo to be an instance of 'life' as well.

A fertilized embryo will not necessarily grow to become a viable baby (I believe most fertilized embryos, or some large percentage of them are actually vacated by the body as a natural process) so it's hard not to consider you basic point of definition for 'life' as arbitrary too.

The aspect of this piece I noted which I found troublesome was the woman's reason for aborting. But that is just an instance of an extreme case which shows up this conflict in principles very acutely.

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Rowland, who has a history of mental health problems

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Prosecutors said that, after they learned of the woman's history of mental health problems, they reduced the homicide charge to two charges of child endangerment

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But he also took note of her history of behavioural and psychological problems, saying it was a "shame" that people with problems do not receive proper treatment. "It's a travesty that we can't deal with people like Ms Rowland," he said.

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Deputy district attorney Robert Stott said prosecutors originally believed the homicide charge was justified.

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"We were convinced at the time we filed the charges that they were appropriate.

Blatham and Patt........

This case is more about mental health treatment and very little about choice. Since both the judge and the deputy district attorney agreed with the "women's group" spokesperson that Ms. Rowland suffered from "mental health problems," I would be willing to bet that, "mental health problems" is a huge understatement.

If she weren't mentally ill, I suppose her reasons would be criminal. But since she obviously is, then it's a mute point.

Also, I heard originally when this story was originally reported, that Ms. Rowlands already had more than one significant abdominal scar, thus another indication of problematic reality testing. I suspect she needs to be stabilized on her anti-psychotic meds.

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I like the greater politeness of A2K but I find that I have to seek out threads in order to follow them. Updates are not always delivered.

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Wow, I can't believe this thread is still going. When I first joined A2K this was one of the first threads I posted. Looks like somehow the theme got turned into debate about the Utah crazy woman? That woman has been failed by every system whose path she crossed. A tragedy for all.

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Only on page 9, but what a great re-read this is.

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Who knows, not sure I've posted on this thread. So, I have a read ahead.
Unh.....

Back at some point.

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Thanks for the reminder, bethis. It is hard, reading this, not to feel a bit lousy because of those gone and because so much goodwill has evaporated. What a horrible five years this has been.

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I like hearing the voices of the women I miss. I'm glad they spoke here. Some marvellous spirits. Sad they're gone, glad they were here with us.

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This is an old thread: I saw a post of mine here that predates my perception of my history of membership on this forum.

I want to toss in that I believe that having more than two children -- at a time of environmental uncertainty -- is a greater wrong than having an abortion.

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Joan, Mama, Timber... sigh.

How'd I miss this thread? I'm a politically savvy woman.

(I think.)

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This was a fascinating read for a (relatively) newish member (who doesn't post on the politics threads).

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This thread was before my time but I'm enjoying it now.

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Now you know (part of) why I was so thrilled to see you when you showed up, FreeDuck!

Well I guess the female part didn't really enter into it much, I just liked your way of expressing yourself. (And still do.)

I think we have a better balance now than we did then, in general. Or maybe I just filter crackpots more efficiently than I did then.

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I think it's better now. I read a lot before I first posted and I remember making a conscious effort to be ambiguous about my gender when posting in politics, I think based on what I observed, though I can't swear to that. Part of what makes online forums so appealing is that you can eliminate that particular prejudice by just not announcing your gender. (Or any prejudice, for that matter.)

Anyway, I find now it doesn't seem so important, but that could just be because I'm used to everyone now. Thanks for that compliment, btw. It means a lot coming from you.

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A2K Politics Forum/Where are Our Politically Savvy Women?

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