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Breaking News: Saddam possessed WMD, extensive terror ties

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:15 pm
Cyc., we wasted too much time begging the UN for acceptance. It was during that time the WMD's were claimed to have been moved. We should have simply attacked when we were ready. Instead, we tried Kerry's "Global approval" or whatever nonsense he is spouting ans Saddam used the time to move his family, money and weapons to Syria just in case.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:21 pm
Undoubtedly, that is a possibility McG. It is hard to argue against the concept, however, that we need to be completely sure before making attacks such as this.

It takes time to be completely sure. In this case, it turns out that we were wrong about a lot of things. Would more time have helped that? Maybe, maybe not.

Cycloptichorn
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:34 pm
More time would've helped, if we didn't have an administration with a pre-conceived notion of what was going on in Iraq!
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:35 pm
More time would have helped who? Saddam?
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:36 pm
More time might have saved a lot of American and Iraqi lives...
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:36 pm
Whatever happened to that vaunted war on terrorism?
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:37 pm
Yeah, I am sure another 12 years and 300,000 dead Iraqis would have been great for Saddam.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:38 pm
population control is Bush's middle name, watch for an executive order to replace water lines in democrat neighborhoods with lead pipes.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:39 pm
There's no indication that that many Iraqis died, McG. Stop exaggerating.

More time would have allowed us to see how wrong we were about WMD claims in Iraq, about how the population was going to recieve us in Iraq, about how we were going to deal with the post-war situation, the list goes on.

There was no call to rush to war like we did. If Saddam had the ability to up and move his WMD programs to another country (which I highly doubt) then it really wouldn't have mattered WHEN we attacked, so why not take the time to get it right?

Cycloptichorn
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:43 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Yeah, I am sure another 12 years and 300,000 dead Iraqis would have been great for Saddam.


So, this was really about protecting Iraquis?
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:44 pm
Quote:
Bremer detailed Saddam's brutality against his own people and spoke of visiting a field that was a mass grave for 20,000 to 30,000 Iraqis, including women and children.

Saddam "killed more Muslims than any man in modern history" and may have killed as many as 300,000 Iraqis during his 35 years in power, Bremer said.


Exagerration?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:45 pm
The problem is, there haven't been any such mass graves found. The largest ones have held about 5k people.

Noone's saying that Saddam isn't a bad guy, but let's not exaggerate here for political purposes.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1263901,00.html

Cycloptichorn
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:47 pm
Huh? So Bremer is lying when he said "spoke of visiting a field that was a mass grave for 20,000 to 30,000 Iraqis, including women and children. "?
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:47 pm
ehBeth wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Yeah, I am sure another 12 years and 300,000 dead Iraqis would have been great for Saddam.


So, this was really about protecting Iraquis?

Yes dear, there really is a Santa Claus in the White HOuse.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:52 pm
ehBeth wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Yeah, I am sure another 12 years and 300,000 dead Iraqis would have been great for Saddam.


So, this was really about protecting Iraquis?


This discussion in this thread is, yes. If you are alluding to the grander discussion of the war, which I assume you are, then you are just trying to be clever.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:55 pm
Yes, he was either lying or exaggerating.

I've watched this issue pretty close as I have an acquaintance who is working with the Red Cross trying to identify some of those graves.

I don't blame Bremer, he's probably told by his people that there are 'estimates' of 30-40k people buried there. It's a hard thing to be sure about, as you can imagine, but our current research to BE sure has not uncovered the sorts of 'mass graves' in Iraq that are widely reported.

In fact, one of the largest mass graves in Iraq was created by US tanks and Bulldozers in GW1, when we buried the Iraqi troops right in their trenches. Some of those strech for miles.

Cycloptichorn
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 12:55 pm
The idea that this war is justified because Saddam killed X number of Iraqis is bogus. Because that's not how the US works.

Do we go after every tyrant who murders his own people? No. Whether we should or not is a valid question, but we don't--and never have.

This particular tyrant was chosen very carefully.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 01:10 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
In fact, one of the largest mass graves in Iraq ...


Btw: The official definition is
Quote:
Mass graves in Iraq are characterized as unmarked sites containing at least six bodies.

and the most found are from the 1983 attack against Kurdish citizens belonging to the Barzani tribe [8,000 were were rounded up] - according to the US Dept. of State website.
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Joe Republican
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 01:44 pm
McGentrix wrote:
C.I. Gunga said "if", I have provided a source that agrees with him and you say that source just isn't good enough... tsk, tsk... I think your absence has had a debillitating effect on you.

Another source
Yet another
Is this one acceptable?

I know that none of these links point to commondreams or the DU, but you'll just have to accept these as evidence that WMD's may have been moved to Syria.


McGentrix, you've got to stop posting propaganda sites, it shows where your ignorance comes from. How many links to DU have been seen on this website? Yet, you, and other blind people CONTINUE to post topics from propaganda sites such as worldnet, newsmax, washington times, Insight, csn etc. It's outright lunacy to believe this crap. These are also year old articles!!!

Let me tell you what you will find in almost EVERY single article. They will have obtained some "exclusive" documents form some UN-NAMED government official who claims to have "irrefutable evidence" about some threat or proof, and it's all supposedly "irrefutable". You will find no pictures, scans or legal documents, and instead they will tell you what "they saw", or "they heard". This will never hit mainstream press not because of the liberal media, but because it DOESN'T EXIST!!! It's PROPAGANDA with a capitol P, you have to see this if you EVER want to look at ANYTHING objectively!!! It's the same reason why people don't post from DU, democrats know it's propaganda as well, so they'll read it and do the follow up investigation on their own!!! This is how you become an informed voter, instead of a piece of the ignorant American public which believes what they want to.

On the 1 in 100 chance that they actually DO have a photograph, they will use it as evidence, which will refutable by any logical thinker!!! They'll show a truck and say something like "These photographs were taken from Israeli spy satellites, and they show the WMD's being transported over the border of Iraq to Syria" when all you see is a TRUCK!!! You will not find photographs which "prove" anything (Kerry's pen sound familiar).
Do me a favor and actually READ some of the articles and LOOK for what I just pointed out to you, I guarantee you will see it in almost EVERY single article on the aforementioned sites.

You see, these sites are meant to distort the facts. They are meant to completely ignore the truth, they are propaganda sites, and Fox News falls into the same category. So does DU for the other side, Michael Moore follows suit, albeit not as bad as the others. I have my own personal feelings on Moore and he adds spin when the spin isn't needed, so he in turn ends up hurting his cause rather then helping it.

As for the "pictures" yes, I remember the "pictures" which sites such as the Washington Times and Newsmax supposedly had, unfortunately for you it was all BS. There is NO evidence of WMD being transported as reported by the propaganda machines. All they all refer to an "un-named government official" or "a defector". Well, the defector was a Chalibi stooge, probably a relative. I could extrapolate on the whole Chalibi farce if you want me to, but it will only make you see more of the same, lying, distortion and spin.

Maybe after you see all the facts, you will still vote for Bush, hell I don't know, he does have a few places where I see people could vote for him, but you have to see ALL the facts!!! Looking at propaganda sites and using them as your sources only calls out your ignorance on the issues.


As for the CSN BS, this is the FOURTH thread in which I am calling them out as producing a fictional article, don't people read the other posts? Or do they hope that by creating a thread with the same topic people will give it more "credibility"?
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Oct, 2004 01:59 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:

and the most found are from the 1983 attack against Kurdish citizens belonging to the Barzani tribe [8,000 were were rounded up] - according to the US Dept. of State website.


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/handshake300.jpg

Shaking Hands: Iraqi President Saddam Hussein greets Donald Rumsfeld, then special envoy of President Ronald Reagan, in Baghdad on December 20, 1983.
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