12
   

Endorsement Race 2016

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2016 08:17 pm
@maporsche,
https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2016 08:59 pm
@maporsche,
A very difficult task...it takes both Congress and state legislature to do it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2016 09:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The Constitution provides that an amendment may be proposed either by the Congress with a two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate or by a constitutional convention called for by two-thirds of the State legislatures.
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2016 09:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
None of the 27 Amendments were proposed by a convention of the states...but after proposed by Congress the states must ratify the amendment.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2016 09:38 pm
@giujohn,
Quote:
The Constitution provides .....
Get it?
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 08:29 am
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

A very difficult task...it takes both Congress and state legislature to do it.


But you understand that there is a process right?
giujohn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 08:31 am
@maporsche,
Uh... yeah... I think that's more than evident from my posts
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 08:37 am
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

Uh... yeah... I think that's more than evident from my posts


You think it's evident, but you're contradicting yourself.

I'm a little unclear on how you can comment and agree that the government has a process for changing the constitution (no matter how onerous) but then earlier argue that the constitution is not a living document and that the rights given within the document cannot be changed and that the country must stick to what the founders intended.
giujohn
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 09:05 am
@maporsche,
What you fail to understand is the distinction between the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and why the Bill of Rights were inserted into the Constitution... I suggest you read The Federalist Papers and the writings of the framers contemporaneous with the Drafting and Adoption of the Constitution.
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 09:11 am
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

What you fail to understand is the distinction between the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and why the Bill of Rights were inserted into the Constitution... I suggest you read The Federalist Papers and the writings of the framers contemporaneous with the Drafting and Adoption of the Constitution.


You understand that amendments to the constitution can be made that would restrict, or even eliminate parts of the bill of rights, don't you?
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 09:32 am
In the world of endorsements ...

http://www.npr.org/2016/11/02/500352353/kkk-paper-endorses-trump-campaign-calls-outlet-repulsive

Quote:
Trump's latest newspaper endorsement, though, is something his campaign is making it very clear they do not want: The Crusader, a newspaper affiliated with the Ku Klux Klan, and that brands itself as "the premier voice of the white resistance."

"While Trump wants to make America great again, we have to ask ourselves, 'What made America great in the first place?'" the endorsement reads, according to the Washington Post. "The short answer to that is simple. America was great not because of what our forefathers did – but because of who our forefathers were. America was founded as a White Christian Republic. And as a White Christian Republic it became great."

Trump's campaign issued a statement to news outlets reading, "Mr. Trump and the campaign denounces hate in any form. This publication is repulsive and their views do not represent the tens of millions of Americans who are uniting behind our campaign."

But the support of racists and white nationalists has been a campaign-long problem for Trump. Former KKK leader David Duke has repeatedly and enthusiastically backed the Republican nominee, and has even launched a longshot bid for a U.S. Senate seat in Louisiana.

"As a United States senator, nobody will be more supportive of his legislative agenda, his Supreme Court agenda, than I will," Duke told NPR earlier this year.
giujohn
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 09:57 am
@maporsche,

 Tenth Amendment Center

Repeal of the 2nd Amendment would not Abolish any Right


"Following the recent school shooting in Connecticut, American citizens have once again displayed their total ignorance concerning the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Second Amendment. Facebook postings, comments to so-called news articles and letters to the editor are calling for repeal of the Second Amendment. These individuals believe the right to own a firearm is based on the Second Amendment and the right will vanish if the Amendment can be repealed. Unless the Second Amendment created the right, then repeal of the Amendment cannot constitutionally abolish the right.

Following the Federal [Constitutional] Convention of 1787 and the subsequent ratification of the Constitution in 1788, the several States began submitting amendments to Congress for consideration. By September of 1789, Congress had reduced approximately 210 separate amendments to 12. The amendments were inserted into a congressional resolution and submitted to the several States for consideration. Of these, numbers 2-12 were ratified by the States in 1791 and became the so-called Bill of Rights.

A little known fact about this resolution is that it contained a preamble declaring the purpose of the proposed amendments. Most modern editions of the Bill of Rights either do not contain the preamble or only include the last paragraph. The most important paragraph is the first one because it discloses the intent of the proposed amendments.

A review of this paragraph shows that the sole purpose of the proposed amendments was to prevent the federal government from “misconstruing or abusing its powers.” To accomplish this, “further declaratory and restrictive clauses” were being proposed. The amendments, if adopted, would place additional restraints or limitations on the powers of the federal government to prevent that government from usurping its constitutional powers. Every clause of the Bill of Rights, without exception, is either a declaratory statement or a restrictive provision.

If the Bill of Rights had granted rights, then the word “granted” would have to appear each and every time a right was being established. A review of the Bill of Rights shows that the word “granted” does not appear in any Amendment.

In reality, the Bill of Rights placed additional or secondary restraints on the powers of the federal government concerning the rights of the people and powers reserved to the States. That is why the words “no,” “not” and “nor” appear throughout the Amendments instead of the word “granted.”

Since the Second Amendment did not create or grant any right concerning firearms, the right enumerated in the Amendment has to be an existing right separate from the Amendment. Thus, repealing the Second Amendment would not eliminate any right because the right enumerated in the Amendment was not created by the Amendment. The right to keep and bear arms exists independent of the Constitution or the Second Amendment.

In order to help explain this constitutional principle:

In the case of United States v Cruikshank, the United States Supreme Court held that the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights were not granted by the Amendments and are not dependent upon the Constitution for their existence. The Court also ruled that the Amendments were restraints on the powers of the federal government and it is the duty of States to secure the individual rights of the American people.

One of the most definitive and succinct interpretations of the Second Amendment is found in the Court’s second holding:


“The right there specified is that of ‘bearing arms for a lawful purpose.’ This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendment declares that it shall not be infringed: but this, as has been seen, means no more than that it shall not be infringed by Congress. This is one of the amendments that has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the National [Federal] Government…”

The Second Amendment did not create or grant any right to keep and bear arms. It placed an additional restraint on the powers of the federal government concerning the existing right to keep and bear arms. Thus, all a repeal could do, from a federal standpoint, is remove the secondary restraint imposed on federal power by the Amendment. And since many States have a right to keep and bear arms clause in their constitution, separate and apart from the Federal Constitution or the Second Amendment, the existence or non-existence of the Second Amendment would not affect the right because the federal government was not granted and does not have the general power to abolish a natural or individual right secured by a State Constitution.

Note: There is a school of thought that the Fourteenth Amendment made, through a doctrine known as incorporation, the Second Amendment applicable to the individual States. Since the Second Amendment did not create a right, then repeal of the Amendment could not abolish the right in the individual States through the Fourteenth Amendment."
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 11:12 am
Not exactly a media endorsement ... but Kasich went ahead and wrote in John McCain on his ballot Smile
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 11:23 am
@ehBeth,
Trump's history of racial bigotry will not be forgotten.
0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  3  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 09:21 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Not exactly a media endorsement ... but Kasich went ahead and wrote in John McCain on his ballot Smile


The memorable thing for me about Kasich will always be that he never wavered in his opposition. Other Republicans denounced Trump because Trump made them look bad. Then they went crawling back. Kasich made it to the finish line.
giujohn
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 09:26 pm
@ehBeth,
And if Billary is elected we can leave it right at his doorstep as well as the other idiot Republicans who do so.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 09:27 pm
@Kolyo,
And if Billary is elected wanna bet he won't be reelected?
Kolyo
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2016 10:49 pm
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

And if Billary is elected wanna bet he won't be reelected?


I think Kasich's political career is over no matter who becomes President.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2016 01:11 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
You understand that amendments to the constitution can be made that would restrict, or even eliminate parts of the bill of rights, don't you?


Furthermore, those rights can be restricted by judicial review, and it has been done. In the 1919 Schenck v. United States case, Oliver Wendel Holmes wrote that one may not indulge in "falsely shouting fire in a crowded theater." That ruling has never even been challenged in any other case before the Federal bench. Holmes further wrote: "The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent." This is important because for so many rightwingnuts, the constitution means only the second amendment, and the Supremes upheld the 1934 firearms act on the basis of Congress' right to arm the militia. For far too many Americans, on the right or the left, the constitution means only those portions about which they care passionately.

Trump obviously doesn't know squat about the constitution.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2016 11:13 am
@Setanta,
The Kahns made that clear by holding up their pocket copy of the Constitution.
 

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