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Why Is The US Fighting Assad In Syria?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 05:57 am
@TheCobbler,
This is a thread on Syria, not America's godsquad, instead of trying to change the subject and move things on why not try to deal with the matter in hand?

Your godsquad is your problem, we don't listen to bloody idiots like that over here, and stop putting words in my mouth. I never said that Christianity civilised Europe, and if you have to start making **** up you don't have much of an argument.

Syria will never be at peace while Assad is in power, unless the wishes of the majority Sunni population are taken into account it will remain a breeding ground for jihadis.

You may not care about religion, but you're very forgiving of American imperialism which is what destabilised the whole region in the first place. An attitude of my country right or wrong has no place in any serious debate about anything.
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 09:23 am
@izzythepush,
I am not changing the subject, I am pointing out the hypocrisy...
Who really has the moral high ground here to judge another nation?
You? Your country? lol!
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2016 11:19 am
@TheCobbler,
You are changing the subject. You're the one who keeps bringing up irrelevant stuff. This is about Syria, you don't understand the dynamic and can only offer platitudes.

The big difference between you and me is I don't pretend British imperialism is a good thing.
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2016 07:38 pm
@izzythepush,
When have I ever promoted British imperialism? (just kidding)

The question here is, why are we fighting Assad? I have yet to find a compelling reason.

We are told he used chemicals on his people but then he willingly gave them all up... His people were trying to unseat him from power. I am not sure those who would dethrone him would be any better either. We should never have gotten involved. How does that position make me an imperialist, I am not sure.

I am not for regime change if it means "the rebels" will take over...

I am not sure "the rebels" are any better.

ISIL is another thing, they are using torture and murder to try and usurp a state.

I support the war against ISIL but I am still on the fence when it comes to Assad, I do not like Assad but I do not agree with a war against him either.

We have enough to worry about here at home in the US than to meddle in the affairs of others where there is such a grey line of perception and no sure understanding of the outcome.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2016 05:25 am
ISIS Has $1B Worth Of US Humvee Armored Vehicles; One Was Used In Monday's Suicide Bombing Near Baghdad
http://www.ibtimes.com/isis-has-1b-worth-us-humvee-armored-vehicles-one-was-used-mondays-suicide-bombing-1946521

Arm the rebels? I don't think so...
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2016 09:57 am
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15055598_340892339614522_3701553477929324685_n.jpg?oh=ac7a8ab9edaf0632ef82dd09feb915bf&oe=58CB0822

I hate all religion equally... Smile
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2017 06:41 am
Trump Ends CIA Arms Support For Anti-Assad Syria Rebels
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-ends-cia-arms-supply-syrian-rebels_us_597091fae4b0aa14ea77c477

I definitely do not support Assad and his crooked "Russian propped up" elections... (just like I don't support Trump)

But I also do not support the rebels either...

Point is, I never supported getting involved in Syria at all!

Had we taken the resources wasted on the rebels and spent these very resources insuring the integrity of our own democracy, we would be much better off...

I did support the war against ISIL..

The problem is "Trump the traitor" is pro Assad rather than anti Syrian war involvement.

I hope our secret service understands the seriousness of this distinction.

By standing with Assad, Trump stands with a corruptly elected despot; anyone surprised?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jul, 2017 07:00 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:
Had we taken the resources wasted on the rebels and spent these very resources insuring the integrity of our own democracy, we would be much better off...


Meaningless soundbite. You avoid specifics because you don't understand what's going on.

IS say that the West only cares about money and oil, and does not care about the people in the ME. Allowing Assad to get away with human rights abuses feeds that narrative. If you'd not 'wasted' money on rebels those rebels might have turned to IS.

Assad is a monster, this is just the beginning of a much longer, quite graphic article.

Quote:
After the pulverising bombings, the brutal sieges and the barbaric chemical weapons attacks, you might think nothing could shock you now about the catastrophic conflict in Syria. You’d be wrong.

Amnesty has learned from prisoners who were detained there and released and former guards about what they describe as a calculated programme of extermination taking place in one of President Bashar al-Assad’s military prisons – Saydnaya, in Damascus. Here, they have told Amnesty, thousands of civilians considered opponents of the regime are systematically starved, deliberately dehumanised, mercilessly tortured and finally hanged in the utmost secrecy in the dead of night, 20 to 50 at a time. These witnesses have described executions and the conditions in the prison before December 2015 but they could be continuing.

It’s like something from a grindingly bleak horror film – a grotesque series of depraved acts that almost defies description. I wish it weren’t true. But I’ve sat and talked to one of the survivors of Saydnaya, and I know it’s all horribly real. Amnesty has gathered testimony from 31 former Saydnaya detainees as well as former guards, and we calculate that between 5,000 to 13,000 people have been hanged at Saydnaya since the uprising against Assad began, possibly many more.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/07/saydnaya-prison-assad-slaugterhouse-amnesty-report-torture-mass-hangings
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2017 07:35 am
Izzy, I do not care to read your reply so go away...

You are on ignore for a reason.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jul, 2017 09:45 am
@TheCobbler,
You've made your desire to embrace ignorance quite clear on more than one occasion.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jul, 2017 06:00 am
AMMAR – THE YOUNG ARTIST
https://www.moas.eu/ammar-young-artist/

I hope you find a good life Ammar...
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Nov, 2017 09:35 pm
Besieged Syrians Are Eating Trash To Survive
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/syria-eastern-ghouta-starvation_us_5a15ccd2e4b025f8e9333e45?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

Was supporting the 'rebels' really worth it?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 27 Nov, 2017 10:32 pm
@TheCobbler,
You have everything backwards. They are not eating trash to survive because we supported the rebels. They are eating trash to survive because we didn't support the rebels.
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 03:43 am
@oralloy,
Oralloy wrote:
Quote:
You have everything backwards. They are not eating trash to survive because we supported the rebels. They are eating trash to survive because we didn't support the rebels.


Is this the support you are talking about?

HOW ISIS GOT WEAPONS FROM THE U.S. AND USED THEM TO TAKE IRAQ AND SYRIA
http://www.newsweek.com/how-isis-got-weapons-us-used-them-take-iraq-syria-748468

The rebels supported ISIS...

This is why I started this post in the first place because I did not trust the rebels...

Who didn't see this coming a mile away?

The rebels are moderates? Bullcrap!

Once again your strategy proves to be wrong?

Would you like to be in a tank in Syria right now and be shot with our own tank busting weapons?

The people paying our congress with bribery money don't care who they arm as long as they make money..

Just like your precious NRA... They protect gun dealers who sell guns to crazies and radicals as long as they make a buck!

This has got to STOP!

How can you be so wrong so often?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 04:25 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:
Is this the support you are talking about?
HOW ISIS GOT WEAPONS FROM THE U.S. AND USED THEM TO TAKE IRAQ AND SYRIA
http://www.newsweek.com/how-isis-got-weapons-us-used-them-take-iraq-syria-748468

Aid that is so minor that it is essentially nonexistent is hardly real support.

Real aid would have allowed the rebels to defend themselves so that your buddy Assad would not be able to starve the Syrian people right now.


TheCobbler wrote:
The rebels supported ISIS...

The genocide victims were desperate for protection from anyone who might save them from Assad.

They certainly weren't getting any protection from Obama.


TheCobbler wrote:
This is why I started this post in the first place because I did not trust the rebels...

Your demonization of genocide victims is charming.


TheCobbler wrote:
Who didn't see this coming a mile away?

Obama did. That's why our aid to the genocide victims was nonexistent.


TheCobbler wrote:
The rebels are moderates? Bullcrap!

Hitler would have loved having someone like you to help him demonize Jews.


TheCobbler wrote:
Once again your strategy proves to be wrong?

No one has ever tried my strategy. It might not work, but it can't fail any worse than what's happening now.


TheCobbler wrote:
Would you like to be in a tank in Syria right now and be shot with our own tank busting weapons?

Is there anyone in a tank in Syria who isn't a genocidal scumbag?


TheCobbler wrote:
The people paying our congress with bribery money don't care who they arm as long as they make money..

What people are these?


TheCobbler wrote:
Just like your precious NRA... They protect gun dealers who sell guns to crazies and radicals as long as they make a buck!

Civil rights are important.


TheCobbler wrote:
This has got to STOP!

Ranting about wanting to stop something that isn't even happening is pretty silly.

Instead of hating on genocide victims, how about calling for an end to the genocide?


TheCobbler wrote:
How can you be so wrong so often?

Try to ponder the fact that you can't point out a single thing that I'm wrong about, and see if you can stumble towards any realizations.
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2017 07:27 am
@oralloy,
Orally wrote:
Real aid would have allowed the rebels to defend themselves so that...

Comment:
... so that they could use that REAL AID to give it to ISIS and so more of our people would die defending a useless and petty war in Syria...

We gave REAL AID to Al Qaeda once, look how that turned out.

Fool you once stupid me, fool you twice stupid you...

Why are we at war with Syria? Election corruption! LOL!
Like the pot calling the kettle black!

Look what we have done to that country with bombs over an "alleged" corrupt election...

The war mongers sure got rich selling weapons to both sides though...
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2017 07:42 am
Bashar Al Assad is a monster and no lasting peace in Syria is possible with him in charge.

Quote:
International investigators have amassed the strongest evidence “since Nuremberg” for the prosecution of Bashar al-Assad and his allies for war crimes, smuggling 600,000 pages of official documents out of Syria.

This trove - weighing several tons - includes the records of a secret committee of security chiefs placed in charge of crushing the revolt. Another 500,000 pages are still inside Syria, awaiting safe transit out of the country.

The most striking evidence concerns Assad’s response to the mass protests against his rule that swept Syria from 2011 onwards. He appointed a “Central Crisis Management Cell” and gave the security chiefs on this committee supreme responsibility for suppressing the unrest. The cell held daily meetings in Damascus, chaired by Mohammad Said Bekheitan, the second most senior member of the ruling Ba’ath party.

But the 24-year-old official who kept the committee’s records and transmitted its orders, Abdelmajid Barakat, was secretly working for the opposition. In 2013, he escaped from Syria into neighbouring Turkey, taking as many of the cell’s documents as he could carry.

The paper trail shows that Assad himself “reviewed the proposals [of the cell], signed them, and returned them for implementation,” according to the New Yorker, adding: “Sometimes he made revisions, crossing out directives and adding new ones.” Mr Barakat was “certain that no security decision, no matter how small, was made without Assad’s approval.”

During this period, thousands of Assad's opponents were killed, detained or tortured. Hospitals were transformed into torture centres, with bodies being stacked in the lavatories after the morgues overflowed.

Stephen Rapp, the former chief prosecutor of the United Nations court handling the Rwandan genocide, told the New Yorker: “When the day of justice arrives, we’ll have much better evidence than we’ve had anywhere since Nuremberg.”

Mr Rapp described the evidence gathered in Syria as “much richer than anything I’ve seen - and anything I’ve prosecuted - in this area.”

At present, however, there is no court before which Assad or his allies could stand trial. Russia vetoed an attempt in 2014 to refer the situation in Syria to the International Criminal Court.

Geoffrey Robertson QC, a senior human rights lawyer, told the Telegraph that Assad was safe at least for the moment. “So long as he is protected by Russia, then the Security Council is stymied and there is no other way that the ICC can have jurisdiction to try him,” he said.

But Mr Robertson pointed out that Assad’s protection may not last forever. Charles Taylor was overthrown as president of Liberia in 2003 and given assurances of immunity when he went into exile in Nigeria. But he was handed over for trial in 2006 and later convicted by a UN court.

“International justice is in its infancy and we’ve seen it change,” said Mr Robertson. “Charles Taylor, who is now serving 50 years in a British prison, was thought to be safe when he was given refuge in Nigeria, but politics change and he was handed over. So there are plenty of precedents for people who seemed to be safe suddenly becoming inconvenient to their protectors.”

The evidence is being held in an undisclosed European city by the Commission for International Justice and Accountability, an organisation of lawyers and investigators partly funded by the British Government.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/12/syria-war-crimes-investigators-amass-strongest-evidence-since-nu/

The West was supporting moderate rebels but only half heartedly which is why wealthy wahhabists in the Gulf states were able to seize the initiative and arm jihadists so successfully.

The West's inaction is far more likely to spur moderate Sunnis into joining jihadist groups because the West's inability to protect moderate democrats in Syria, coupled with Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital shows that America is not interested in promoting democracy but supporting murderous regimes in return for cheap oil.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2017 07:55 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:
Orally wrote:
Real aid would have allowed the rebels to defend themselves so that...

Comment:
... so that they could use that REAL AID to give it to ISIS

No. So they could defend themselves from the genocide that your buddy Assad is perpetrating against them.


TheCobbler wrote:
and so more of our people would die defending a useless and petty war in Syria...

Our people are not dying in Syria.


TheCobbler wrote:
We gave REAL AID to Al Qaeda once, look how that turned out.

We did no such thing.


TheCobbler wrote:
Why are we at war with Syria? Election corruption! LOL!

We are not at war with Syria.

Obama assessed that unless we went all-in with a major ground invasion and occupied Syria, our involvement would not significantly improve the situation, and he assessed that US interests were not threatened nearly enough to justify a massive ground invasion/occupation.

His reasoning is likely correct, but sitting and watching Assad commit genocide leaves a bad taste in one's mouth.

Listening to you deride genocide victims because you have weird delusions about a nonexistent war is also unpleasant.


TheCobbler wrote:
Look what we have done to that country with bombs over an "alleged" corrupt election...

The only bombing that the US has done in Syria was directly against Islamic State military targets.

The general destruction of Syria that you are complaining about was carried out by your buddy Assad as part of his genocide against the Syrian people -- the same genocide that you defend in your posts.

If you don't like the results of that destruction, maybe you should consider no longer posting propaganda in support of the guy doing it.


TheCobbler wrote:
The war mongers sure got rich selling weapons to both sides though...

That is unlikely.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2017 08:03 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
coupled with Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital shows that America is not interested in promoting democracy but supporting murderous regimes in return for cheap oil.

Your post was perfect up to that point.

We only supported murderous regimes during the Cold War when we feared the greater evil of Soviet world domination. Since the Cold War our record of supporting democracy has been impeccable. We may not have always succeeded, but we have always genuinely tried and did our best.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Dec, 2017 10:30 am
@izzythepush,
Is your desire to take out revenge on the monster Bashar Al Assad worth the lives of:

"The report from the Syrian Center for Policy Research said that at least 470,000 Syrians have died as a result of the war."

I wonder what would have happened if we had just left Syria to handle its own crisis instead of dropping bombs on their cities?

What if we had let the Middle East handle its own war?

Are we in the US and Europe really the "moral high ground"?

Bomb their cities, equip the enemy and reject the refugees...

A recipe for disaster and genocide if I ever heard one...

But, but, the Arab spring?

Arab spring! My ass!

Just another US/Euro led war where, incidentally, hundreds of thousands MORE innocent Arab civilians die in the process, oh, so we can take out a "monster"...

See the pattern?
 

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