0
   

Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 11:17 am
snood wrote:
trespassers will wrote:
I happen to believe in the tradition of former presidents keeping mum on the actions of current presidents, but I do not read PD's comments to be that narrowly directed, and will await his response to my question. (Thank you for yours though, Snood!)

Besides, it isn't asking special treatment to ask that Carter and Clinton simply afford Bush the same treatment they and other presidents have enjoyed.

To be perfectly honest, I'd never heard of this so-called "traditional" taboo, until this current resident of the white house.

I guess it is one of those things I always thought everybody knew. This is certainly not a fabrication of the current administration. I believe it has been a standing and largely respected policy for many years.

I found this just now:

ALLAN LICHTMAN, AMERICAN UNIV. HISTORY PROFESSOR wrote:
We did a piece for "Parade" magazine during the Clinton impeachment and I called all of the former presidents -- of course, Ronald Reagan is ill, so you can't speak with him. And Carter, Ford, and Bush the elder, all told me -- they said, Look, we can't comment on the record because protocol dictates that former presidents do not criticize sitting presidents.
History News Network

Of course, any US citizen has a right to free speech, but I think you can see where a poor choice of words by a former president could take the legs out from under a sitting president, which most people would agree is a bad thing.

But again, I do not think that is what PD meant. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 11:18 am
John Webb wrote:
Perhaps the means by which Bush came to office reduces his entitlement to the respect of his predecessors?

Why exactly would being legally elected by the people do that? Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 11:35 am
Absolutely true that protocol has been there, at least during my lifetime. But Bush isn't a sitting president in the eyes of many who believe, quite legitimately, that he wasn't elected. Rather than argue that point ad infinitum, why not concede that there are special circumstances here, with serious questions about the president and about the invasion of Iraq. These questions may be very uncomfortable for many conservatives, but they are real and serious for about half the voting citizens of this country and wishing them away or trying to drown them out isn't going to stop them.
0 Replies
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 11:45 am
Tartarin wrote:
Absolutely true that protocol has been there, at least during my lifetime. But Bush isn't a sitting president in the eyes of many who believe, quite legitimately, that he wasn't elected. Rather than argue that point ad infinitum, why not concede that there are special circumstances here, with serious questions about the president and about the invasion of Iraq. These questions may be very uncomfortable for many conservatives, but they are real and serious for about half the voting citizens of this country and wishing them away or trying to drown them out isn't going to stop them.

No, let's not "concede" to irrational wishful thinking on the part of a vocal minority, let's consult the facts and the law.

If you spent 1/100th the time researching the facts of the 2000 election that you spend whining about the result you might understand that Bush was legally elected. The FL election law in place at the time of the election is crystal clear on the requirements that must be met for a secondary manual recount. The facts are equally clear that those requirements were NOT met. Period. End of election. Winner takes all.

You don't get another recount just because some people don't like the outcome, you do get one if certain conditions are met. That's the law, and we run elections based on law, or we have chaos.

I have provided links to the FL law elsewhere in A2K discussions, and challenged ANYONE to show me where I am wrong. I have been issuing this challenge since shortly after the 2000 election, and to date NO ONE has stepped forward to shut me up. Now maybe that's just because everyone who is unhappy about that election is lazy, or maybe it is because I am right.

But since you will probably just be one more person who would rather make excuses for her ignorance rather than learn what you don't want to admit is true, I suppose we'll never know for sure.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 11:54 am
50,455,156 47.87% Bush// 50,992,335 48.38% Gore and the minority is?
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 11:54 am
Sorry, Tres, but I don't think you're right -- either about proving your point or about those who oppose you in this matter. Talk to moderate Republicans about this -- you'll find that many have their doubts about the election and about the war. So we're not talking about a vocal minority (though it's true that many vocal minorities have turned out to be right), we're talking about a vocal majority plus.
0 Replies
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 11:55 am
dyslexia wrote:
50,455,156 47.87% Bush// 50,992,335 48.38% Gore and the minority is?

Dys - Why don't you tell us how many tall people voted for each? It would be just as pertinent to the outcome. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 11:57 am
Tartarin wrote:
Sorry, Tres, but I don't think you're right -- either about proving your point or about those who oppose you in this matter. Talk to moderate Republicans about this -- you'll find that many have their doubts about the election and about the war. So we're not talking about a vocal minority (though it's true that many vocal minorities have turned out to be right), we're talking about a vocal majority plus.


Tartarin - I took the time to find the information so you would have no excuse for not checking the facts. Here is what I posted waaaay back in this very discussion:

The 2000 Florida Statutes: 102.166 Protest of election returns; procedure.--

Quote:
(4)(a) Any candidate whose name appeared on the ballot, any political committee that supports or opposes an issue which appeared on the ballot, or any political party whose candidates' names appeared on the ballot may file a written request with the county canvassing board for a manual recount. The written request shall contain a statement of the reason the manual recount is being requested.

(b) Such request must be filed with the canvassing board prior to the time the canvassing board certifies the results for the office being protested or within 72 hours after midnight of the date the election was held, whichever occurs later.

(c) The county canvassing board may authorize a manual recount. If a manual recount is authorized, the county canvassing board shall make a reasonable effort to notify each candidate whose race is being recounted of the time and place of such recount.

(d) The manual recount must include at least three precincts and at least 1 percent of the total votes cast for such candidate or issue. In the event there are less than three precincts involved in the election, all precincts shall be counted. The person who requested the recount shall choose three precincts to be recounted, and, if other precincts are recounted, the county canvassing board shall select the additional precincts.

(5) If the manual recount indicates an error in the vote tabulation which could affect the outcome of the election, the county canvassing board shall:
(a) Correct the error and recount the remaining precincts with the vote tabulation system;

(b) Request the Department of State to verify the tabulation software; or

(c) Manually recount all ballots.

Check the record; the original 3-county recount did not indicate "an error in the vote tabulation which could affect the outcome of the election". Given that, Gore had no legal access to further recounts. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 12:01 pm
Thanks for going to the trouble, Tres, but it doesn't nothing to change my mind. Keep on reading.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 12:08 pm
Quote:
Dys - Why don't you tell us how many tall people voted for each? It would be just as pertinent to the outcome.

sorry you dont care for the american people. or as you would say the vocal minority
0 Replies
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 12:19 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Quote:
Dys - Why don't you tell us how many tall people voted for each? It would be just as pertinent to the outcome.

sorry you dont care for the american people. or as you would say the vocal minority

Yeah, that's it. I don't care for the American people.

Weep for me. Crying or Very sad
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 12:30 pm
Quote:
"Senator Kerry crossed a grave line when he dared to suggest the replacement of America's commander-in-chief at a time when America is at war," writes Marc Racicot, chairman of the Republican National Committee (RNC). Seems presidential hopeful John Kerry's call for "regime change" here at home has touched a nerve.
So, what -- it's treason now to advocate against a Bush- Cheney ticket? Perhaps we should just postpone the election until after the war? (And what if the war, as former CIA director James Woolsey predicts approvingly, goes on for decades?)
http://www.thenation.com/outrage/index.mhtml?bid=6
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 12:48 pm
Quote:



The New York Times Editorial/OP-ED April 8, 2003

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/08/opinion/08KRUG.html
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 01:53 pm
I think what you need to do first is replace your inept DNC leadership and idiots like Kerry making stupid comments like that one. Hope that crow is cooked, senator.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 01:55 pm
http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/WFC/tr030405.gif

Thanks for helping us out cjhsa, but we'll take our own counsel!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 02:06 pm
BillW, What is our "counsel?"
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 02:40 pm
Shhhh, we don't want them to find out, PM me!
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 02:44 pm
and i swear i never alleged that Reagan was anything more than a B movie actor
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 03:05 pm
He never was, was he?
0 Replies
 
trespassers will
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Apr, 2003 03:24 pm
BillW - I enjoyed the cartoon.

I had to laugh, partly because I "heard" myself in it to some extent. Personally, I would welcome a more meaningful debate, even if it ended up being a debate that conservatives lost. What I do not think helps anyone is the demonization of our political polar opposites, and while I see that done on both sides, I at least recognize an actual message on the right (even if the right isn't following through on that message). The best the left seems to have to offer as a message is that the right sucks. Until they can do better than that, we all will suffer with a less vibrant debate and less meaningful elections.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 07/12/2025 at 08:18:51