0
   

Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Nov, 2004 11:26 pm
Timber, I used to consider you a friend. Sorry I can no longer say that. And sorrier still that I was never able to say it of Finn. In case you didn't notice, I'm not laughing.

Sorry, gotta get out of here.

Bear,
I was hoping for Kerry..........and I'm terribly disappointed.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 06:57 am
Lola,

You are overreacting. I understand and acknowledge the disappointment you feel - one group or the other was bound to be disappointed in this contest. I hope you get past it quickly and return as the quirky, combatative, humorous, sexy smartass commentator we have grown to appreciate.

This is by no means the end of this or any story. There will be more political battles fought by the same parties, and many of the same figures, over the same evolving issues. It is part of a process that in many ways is better than any of the contenders whose struggles it governs. Change the number 4 to an 8 and this thread, and the fight it expresses can continue for a long time.

Timber is a pretty moderate and restrained guy - certainly more than I am. He was enjoying his moment, but I don't think it is at all fair to suggest he was either deliberately offensive or over the top in his posts.

Easy for me to feel good and magnanimous about all this now - harder for you. But get over it babe - you are still Lola, and I have more cigars!
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 10:25 am
You're very charming, george. And thank you for the pep talk. Maybe it wasn't true to claim that Timber was no longer a friend. (We'll see.)

But I'm still not laughing. And I'm not ready to laugh. But I think I am ready to fight.......just a little too upset and angry to do it with much civility right now. I fear I'll be banned........I had to talk to myself for at least a few minutes last night to convince myself not to send a very nasty, direct and insulting message.

I think it might be a good time for you guys to back off a little bit and give those of us who are not only disappointed but alarmed and frightened by the result of the election to collect ourselves. You got what you wanted and we'll all have to live with it. It seems like that should be enough for you for a few days at least.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 10:46 am
Hey, glamor gams, you'll always be pretty cool in my book. I know you're disappointed, and rightly so; you put tremendous effort and passion into a cause that went unfulfilled. Don't let that overwhelm you. The fight ain't over, this was just a single round, and everything is cool so long as the fight goes on. Its the one fight no one should wish to see end.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:04 am
Yes, fighting on is a fine goal. Put up yer dukes.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:06 am
'Atta girl! Laughing
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 12:34 pm
Well - it looks like she is cooling down, but - tonight is not the night.

OK by me Lola. Glad to see you back in the fight.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 01:58 pm
george, here's the place for a party tonight:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11263&start=1180

get a toga and come on over. Republicans are welcome, as long as we don't talk about politics.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 02:50 pm
Gosh, late to the party ( or the wake, as it were ).

timber, two outta three ain't bad, and while we could quibble over the "57 to 59% of the popular vote" part, I'll take John Kerry's lead and not put all of us through that. As soon as I post this I'll go make that contribution and then ... send you a copy of the receipt, maybe? For proof?

So here's a quick take:

"Well, that could've gone better."

Seriously, there's not enough solace to be taken that here in Deep-In-The-Hearta, a Dallas-area county elected a Latino lesbian sheriff, or that a Vietnamese immigrant unseated a 30-year GOP state representative in Houston, or even that Tom DeLay "had more votes cast against him than ever before".

Back to the Prezdintial race.

Probably the oddest thing I read in the days before last Tuesday was the notion that African-American support for John Kerry was sagging. Among the factors contributing to this was the notion that George Bush should be forced to clean up his own messes.

No joke. Y'all hear that one?

Truth to tell, though, I'm marginally sympathetic to that attitude. Anything that keeps the good guys and gals on the left cheerful and engaged has something to be said for it, and there's some basis for thinking that the next four years could be very, very bad for the long-term health of the Republican Party, which would be very, very good for the long-term health of the nation and the planet. This year's level of Democratic effort, and the level of discontent with Bush among Republican-leaning elites, makes me less worried now than I was three years ago about the ability of Bush and Rove and Norquist and Reed and all of their lickspittles to bring about a semi-permanent consolidation of power that was clearly their ambition.

Taking the long view, it's not clear that Tuesday's outcome made overall prospects worse rather than better. But there's just something wrong with that thought.

In the long run ( as a famous economist noted, and blatham has also cogently pointed out on another thread ) we're all dead.

In the next four years, and for some years thereafter, there will be lots of unnecessary suffering and death because we have in power a President -- and a governing political party -- contemptuous of any human suffering that doesn't involve them or their voters ( or can't be used to partisan advantage ), contemptuous of the rest of the world and of Americans who disagree with them, and contemptuous even of ordinary fact ( such as scientific fact, for example ). Moreover, much of the damage done in the next four years -- the esteem in which America is held by the rest of the world, for starters -- can't be easily undone.

Me, I can afford to be philosophical about the outcome. I'm white. I'm straight. I'm male. I'm employed by a company -- mine -- that isn't going to disappear, with health insurance that isn't going to be taken away and a well-funded retirement plan. Bush's tax changes probably decreased my net share of the national tax burden, and I'm not going to go without anything vital if my income takes a hit as a result of uneven economic performance. I'm not a likely victim either of crime or the criminal justice system. Nobody I know is likely to be forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term as a result of restrictions on abortion.

My biggest personal loss is probably in the air quality, plus the increased risk ( but still microscopic in absolute terms ) of getting incinerated by a North Korean or Iranian nuclear weapon, or a terrorist attack, plus maybe the setback for stem-cell research that might mean my new kidney or the treatment for Parkinson's or whatever won't be ready when I need it.

So why shouldn't I be philosophical? As Steve Goodman sings, "It ain't hard, puttin' up with somebody else's troubles."

There's a joke about a famous defense attorney who promised his client that he would certainly be acquitted of a murder charge. When the jury brought in a verdict of guilty, the hapless client turned to his lawyer and said "What do we do now?" As the client was being led away in handcuffs, the lawyer replied, "Well, I don't know about you, but I'm going to lunch."

Those of us who are comfortable in our personal circumstances and aren't among the specific targets of God's Official Party's twisted views about "moral values," and who therefore had less personally at stake in this election than lots of other people did ( even some who voted for Bush ) shouldn't want to be too much like that attorney.

Yes, it's possible to root for Bush's re-election on the Leninist principle of "the worse, the better."

But one Leninist party is already one too many.

This came in my inbox in the last few days:

Quote:
I work at a domestic violence shelter in a rural conservative district in Mich. that has had its economy gutted by NAFTA and where Christianity dominates the culture.

Yesterday while reflecting about 4 more years of Bush I was talking with a woman staying in the shelter. I will give her a fake name, lets call her Laura B. Laura is 28, pregnant, (never considered an abortion). She finished high school and did a year of college before dropping out to have a couple of kids with her military husband. Living in Virginia on base with her autocratic mate (he doesn't allow the boys 3 and 4 to say "yeap" they have to answer "yes sir") drove her crazy and she was hospitalized for suicidal thoughts. Military dude divorced her and has custody.

She came home to Mom in Mich and ended up at our shelter to try and sort out her life. (Mom has no money either and her own problems.) We, like all secular agencies, have seen a steady erosion of funds.

Laura B. has found a job working in the kitchen at a local faith based Christian College. She makes $6/hour. She drives a dying Ford Escort wagon and pays $2.15/gallon for gas. Her latest crisis is her insurance expired on Oct. 9 (her ex-partner cancelled policy). She needs to come up with $211 to get insurance for one month or face a $1,000 fine if she gets caught driving with no insurance. We have some public transportation, Dial-a Ride, minibus runs between 7 am and 6 p.m., M-F $1.50 one-way. She has to be at work at 6am.

She has been walking to work lately but it is about 2 miles. She is 5 months pregnant, it is dark at 5 am, and winter is coming. Solution? Go begging at the churches who seem to have money for these things. They will give her the money if she attends bible school. So last night she was at bible school until 9 p.m.

She has never attended our domestic violence support groups as she is too tired at night and goes to bed early, but the bible study was not optional.

She was excited about "God's message" when she came back.

This week she moves into low income subsidized housing. Her newest crisis is she has found out when the college is closed for the Christmas holiday (one month) she has no employment. She is hoping to find temporary employment as a seasonal retail worker if the Christmas sales are brisk to tide her over. She doesn't know what she will do when the baby is born, hopes she can work up till the last week (she is on her feet all day with this job). She will be eligible for subsidized daycare.

She voted for Bush because of his "family values."


I have absolutely nothing to add to that.

edit: corrected some typos...including some Freudian slippage ( Repubican ) Surprised
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 06:40 pm
No "Proof" needed, PDiddie ... I have no cause to believe you are anything other than honorable, or that you would act in any other manner. I may think your politics are screwed up, but I respect you as a person.


I'll point out however - just for the sake of precision :wink: - the wager was based specifically on "The Successful Candidate" sans other qualifier, but that's a mere, and wholly insignificant, quibble. Mr. Green
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 07:28 pm
love ya pd
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 07:30 pm
me too........
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 09:25 pm
Me too.


Really.






But lets not let that get around too much, OK? Laughing
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 01:01 am
Me too. Let's all get together again, I miss everybody in the San Francisco crowd.

PDid--have you read What's the Matter With Kansas? I've mentioned it before but I guess noone else has read it. The woman in Michigan is a prime example of what that letter was all about: values that do nothing to help, but demand subsevience.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 01:45 am
isn't this all snuggly?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Nov, 2004 09:04 pm
Y'all think you can get the orgy started without me?

I have the book, Di, but haven't cracked it yet. Got behind in my reading the past few months.

(Can't put down Kitty Kelley's little stories, though.)
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Nov, 2004 08:22 pm
PD
did you see Molly's last column? Smack on the money. Time to get to work.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2004 06:02 am
Let's talk about replacing Bush in 2008.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2004 08:10 am
I know, huh.

Look at it this way.

At least, thanks to Bush's re-election, we might make this thread last another 500 pages and possibly set a record of some kind ...

<sighs>
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Nov, 2004 08:12 am
oh god...!
0 Replies
 
 

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