0
   

Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 07:49 am
Christian Science Monitor
June 21, 2002
Russian bill pits free speech against national security
The proposed law would give authorities wide latitude to ban 'extremists.'
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 08:27 am
Mc: You can't possibly be serious.
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angie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 09:00 am
.


The ad is not extremist. In fact, it's fairly innocuous. Some of the ads that competed were much more direct and much more effective.

I think it's disturbing, however, that CBS has refused to air the spot, especially in light of what seem to be compromising allegations regarding favorable legislation.

Presenting all sides of an issue is the only way to have a shot at getting people to think.


"What good fortune for the government that the people do not think." ------- Adolf Hitler



.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 09:11 am
BillW wrote:
...this just proves that the "Military" will always side with the Republicans.

Ever hear of Wesley Clark? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 09:13 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
That's why we need to let CBS know that this practice of arbitrarily turning down ads that may be "controversial" ... just isn't right.

What evidence do you have that the decision was "arbitrary"?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 09:19 am
The ad IS extremist and has no business being aired during the superbowl.

Bush's deficit? Please. How about America's deficit?
Bush did not single handedly drive up the deficit. Have you seen the pork that congress got through? Honestly, it seems that the left is so blind with hatred that you can't see the end of your own nose.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 09:20 am
Well, if they can't see the ends of their noses, you can bet it's Bush's fault!
0 Replies
 
angie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 09:24 am
You don't see a connection between the deficit and tax cuts ? between the deficit and funding the war ?

This IS America's deficit. That's the point of the ad.
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 09:27 am
angie wrote:
You don't see a connection between the deficit and tax cuts?

Yes, I do. I also see the connection between the recent reductions in the projected deficit and the boost to the economy caused by those tax cuts. Your ideology seems to limit you to seeing only half of the picture.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 09:33 am
Yesterday, the Congress passed a $373 billion spending bill that included, among other things: $1.2 billion for Amtrak, a 20 percent increase. Why? Does it say anything in the US Constitution about funding Amtrak? Also included: $56 billion for the Education Department, up 5 percent. Why the increase? Has education improved dramatically in this country since the Education Department was founded? I think not. You will be pleased to learn that $200,000 of your tax dollars are going to run the World Tee program, to teach young people about the virtues of golf. Not to be outdone, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi's home district will get $9 million for a light rail system. I wonder if there's any more federal dollars going to tattoo removal programs this year?
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 09:35 am
No wonder they quibble about money for defense. We should not rest until every child in America can play golf! Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 09:52 am
The Bush conspiracy theory generator.

Want to come up with your own conspiracy theory about Bush? Don't let Al Franken, Michael Moore, and MoveOn.org have all the fun! Use this handy George W. Bush Conspiracy Theory Generator to come up with your own conspiracy theory!*



* This tool may not be used to create Democratic presidential candidate speeches or generate content for MoveOn.org without the express permission of Buttafly.com.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2004 01:58 pm
re the Superbowl Ad Flap, the CBS point is that they do not see The Superbowl as an appropriate forum for issue ads, periosd, and, in fact, looking over past performance from all the networks, that appears to be the standard practice. Those who complain that its a Free Speech issue neglect to consider that Commercial Speech by its very definition is not free speech, and what else but commercial speech are TV commercials? No one is denying MoveOn the right to run their commercial, but no one, as ensured by The First Ammendment, can require that any particular forum be granted them for the airing of that commercial. Broadcasters are free to select what they will buy and sell, just as are newspapers and magazines. They cannot be forced to provide a platform for any particular agenda. One may say just about anything one wishes, but one may not require anyone to assist the promulgation of one's point, particularly to the exclusion of others.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2004 03:32 pm
Here's a bit of encouraging news:

Quote:
Investor Martin J. Whitman first came to Syracuse University just after World War II, under the G.I. Bill of Rights, a federal program conceived when the country was running deficits that Whitman says was a good use of taxpayer money.

Whitman, Class of '49 and nearly 80, was back in Syracuse on Thursday, in a building with his name on it and in an economy newly stung with word of extensive layoffs at Kodak and a deepening federal deficit.

The U.S. economy in one Whitman word?

"Sucks," said Whitman, known as a straight shooter.

So what's the first step to right it?

"The biggest thing we have to do about it is get rid of the Republicans," said Whitman.


Syracuse Post-Standard

Here's a bit of poignant news:

Quote:
Marty Martensen, one of the most persistent and opinionated contributors to the Glenwood Springs Post-Independent, died Jan. 13 of complications from pneumonia. He was 85...

He registered as a Republican when he was old enough to vote and figured he was a Grand Old Party lifer - until late 2000, when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that George W. Bush would be the next president.

"Marty hated George W. Bush," said June Martensen, his wife.

"He thought Bush was ruining the country. He was very anti-Bush. In fact, Mr. Bush's antics made him change from being a lifelong Republican to being a Democrat."...

Martensen, a graduate of Grinnell College who was an industrial electronic engineer before retiring, was a devoted reader. Nearly every day, he read the National Review, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the National Observer and other publications that focus on national and international political, social and environmental issues.


Denver Post

RIP, Marty. We'll get rid of him for you...
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2004 05:44 pm
PDiddie sent me here from the "2004 Dem contenders" thread ... said I shoulda posted here! OK, so here we go ... but I guess that means I have to repost two posts here, cause the second without the first wouldnt make so much sense. And hey, those of you who hadnt heard yet might enjoy the good news in the first one.

First:

nimh wrote:
People, we have a first, I think.

We've had polls before where the "generic", anonymous Democrat had a lead on Bush. But as far as I can remember, any Democrat specified by name always was behind at least a few percentage points. Clark once came within 2% or something, I think thats been the best.

But here's the new Newsweek poll, from 22-23 January, as compared to the 8-9 January data.

Quote:
Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates. Jan. 22-23, 2004. N=1,006 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.

Bush 46% (-6)
Kerry 49% (+8)


Bush 48% (-2)
Clark 47% (+6)


Bush 49% (-5)
Edwards 46% (+8)

Bush 49% (-3)
Lieberman 45% (+4)

Bush 50% (-1)
Dean 45% (+2)

Note that even Howard Dean has caught up some with Bush, in spite of the most disastrous two weeks of his campaign yet.

I guess the State of the Union speech didnt impress ...

More:
Quote:
"In general, would you like to see George W. Bush reelected to another term as president, or not?"

Yes 44% (-4)
No 52% (+6)
Don't Know 4% (-2)

The same poll has Bush's job rating down 4% in the last two weeks, to 50% exactly.

That's the lowest it's been since May 2001.

The disapproval rate is at 44%. Still a +6% balance for Bush thus. But, still - that 44% is the highest it's ever been.

Forsure, the Newsweek polls are usually among the more unfavourable for Bush. The CNN/Time poll usually has about the same numbers, but the ABC/WaPo poll has always been "behind" a month or so when signalling GWB's falling numbers, while the Fox polls acknowledge new lows for Bush even later.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jan, 2004 05:45 pm
Second (there ya go, PD :wink: ):


nimh wrote:
Yes, you guessed it - I gave myself the day off, and I'm feeling geeky.

We've been citing this poll, that poll, and whenever one poll was cited, another poster would cite another one, contending the representativeness of the first.

So, les' look at them altogether, and see those long-term trends across the polls. Forget pollingreport - this graph is all my own making! Well - all the data are from Polling Report, it's true, I admit it ;-). I've simplified them into max. two results per month - if there were more, I took the average of the data from resp. before and after the 15/16th (except for 9/01).

http://home.wanadoo.nl/anepiphany/images/bush-job-ratings_2001-2004.gif

Coupla things strike me, in all of this:

- The obvious, the point we've been debating: Bush has had two major (and one minor) boosts: the 9/11 aftermath and the Iraq war (and Saddam's capture). These created respective new (but ever lower) heights, from which he would then steadily drop.

- Bush is essentially somewhere between 50-55%, much like he was just before 9/11 happened. The difference is that back then, his negatives were between 30-40%, and they are now up to 40-45%.

- The polls are actually a lot more in agreement with each other than one might have suspected [..] they all show pretty much the same, striking pattern. If there is any exception, it's the Fox polls showing visibly lower negatives for Bush than any other polls.

Here's a zoom-in on the last year or so:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/anepiphany/images/bush-job-ratings_2003-2004.gif
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2004 11:49 pm
Thank you, nimhster, for your work.

Before we replace Bush, Bush may replace Cheney:

Quote:
The vice president, whose apparent moderation and 35-year Washington experience reassured voters worried about the callowness and inexperience of Bush during the 2000 campaign, is seen more and more by Republican Party politicos as a drag on the president's re-election chances in what is expected to be an extremely close race.

The reasons are simple: instead of the moderate voice of wisdom and caution that voters thought they were getting in the vice president, ongoing disclosures about his role in the drive to war in Iraq and other controversial administration plans depict him as an extremist who constantly pushed for the most radical measures.

He is seen as not just an extremist, but also a kind of eminence grise who exercises undue influence over Bush to further a radical agenda, a notion that was backed by the publication of a recent book about former treasury secretary Paul O'Neill, who described Cheney as creating a "kind of praetorian guard around the president" that blocked out contrary views.


Asia Times
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2004 05:58 am
I see the signs of Bush making a renewed effort to find Bin Laden, just in time for the coronation this November.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2004 07:47 am
I saw that the massive layoffs at Kodak in Rochestor was mentioned in a post above. The economy is not responsible for those layoffs, digital cameras are responsible for those layoffs.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2004 08:45 am
McGentrix wrote:
The economy is not responsible for those layoffs, digital cameras are responsible for those layoffs.


You kinda hit on something there, McG ... due the changes wrought on society by the advance of technology, the very nature of the job market is changing, the Kodak example being just one among many. The printing press spelled doom for legions of scribes. Within a decade following the American Civil War, Sail-making started becoming a far less marketable skill than had been the case for a thousand years. A bit less than a hundred years ago, things were starting to look pretty bleak for harness crafters, wagon manufacturers, and lamp oil sales people. The internal combustion engine and the changes it enabled put literally millions of farm laborers and animal handlers out of work in the space of a generation. Residential electricity and consumer refrigerators destroyed the ice house industry, and eventually spelled the end for milkmen. Radio, movies, and finally television destroyed vaudeville. Computers and automatic switching have eliminated the jobs of most telephone operators, and in today's world, chimneysweeps, railroad trainmen, and blacksmiths are orders of magnitude less common than once they were, though we have many more chimenies, move far more ton-miles of freight by rail, and metal gear is everywhere. Its silly to attempt to regain the past in order to maintain the status quo; humankind moves on. The choice is simple; get with the flow and embrace the future, or try to hold on to what was, get washed away by the tide. The times they are achangin'.
0 Replies
 
 

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