0
   

Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jan, 2004 02:27 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
timber, It seems to me at least that you also fail to see the difference between this administration's claim that we wish to bring democracy to Iraq, but this country also will not allow that same democracy to work for Arabs and Muslims in this country. Please explain the rational you use to equate the two.

Please make your case for your claim that "this country ... will not allow ... democracy to work for Arabs and Muslims in this country". Thanks.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jan, 2004 02:55 pm
Scrat, It's a simple as the following link. http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/1985179/detail.html Whether you can understand it or not, we were treated similar to the Arabs/Muslims in the country over fifty years ago, and put into concentration camps. I am angry at this administration for what this admnistration is doing. You are probably a WASP and don't give a ****, but I do.
0 Replies
 
jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jan, 2004 09:57 pm
Deputy Undersecretary Bill Luti calls General Zinni a traitor.

January 19, 2004 issue
Copyright © 2004 The American Conservative


Open Door Policy
A strange thing happened on the way to the war.


By Karen Kwiatkowski

Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, a former Pentagon insider, concludes her observations on the run-up to the Iraq war in this last of a three-part series.

'..As the winter of 2002 approached, I was increasingly amazed at the success of the propaganda campaign being waged by President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and neoconservative mouthpieces at the Washington Times and Wall Street Journal. I speculated about the necessity but unlikelihood of a Phil-Dick-style minority report on the grandiose Feith-Wolfowitz-Rumsfeld-Cheney vision of some future Middle East where peace, love, and democracy are brought about by pre-emptive war and military occupation...'

for the whole article go to:
http://www.amconmag.com/1_19_04/article1.html
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jan, 2004 10:57 pm
jjorge

That's an Excellent piece...thank you very much.
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2004 03:40 am
trespassers will:

In reference to Bush, you said...
Quote:
I agree with the core values I believe he holds


What values would those be? *curious*
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2004 10:31 am
Supreme Court Allows Secrecy for 9/11 Detainees
25 minutes ago Add Top Stories - Reuters
By James Vicini

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) on Monday allowed the Bush administration to keep secret the names and other basic details about hundreds of people questioned and detained or arrested after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.



Without comment, the top court refused to hear an appeal by civil liberties and other groups challenging the secret arrests and detentions for violating the Freedom of Information Act and constitutional free-speech rights under the First Amendment.


The justices let stand a U.S. appeals court ruling that disclosing the names could harm national security and help "al Qaeda in plotting future terrorist attacks or intimidating witnesses in the present investigation."


Although the high court stayed out of the dispute involving the names of those detained, it has agreed to hear other cases arising from the administration's war on terror.


Those cases involve the president's power to detain American citizens captured abroad and declared "enemy combatants," and whether foreign nationals can use American courts to challenge their incarceration at the U.S. military base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.


The appeals court said the government could keep secret the names of more than 700 individuals detained on immigration violations and those arrested as material witnesses in the investigation into the hijacked plane attacks. The United States blames Osama bin Laden (news - web sites)'s al Qaeda network for the attacks that killed about 3,000.


The appeals court said the government could also keep secret the dates and locations of the arrest, detention and release of all detainees, including those charged with federal crimes, and the names of the lawyers representing them.


Attorneys for the groups challenging the government's policy said the appeals court erred in failing to recognize the First Amendment prohibits secret arrests, except in the most compelling circumstances.


GOVERNMENT EXPLANATION SAID 'UNPERSUASIVE'


They said the appeals court gave unprecedented deference to government explanations that were "unpersuasive on their face, overly broad and without any support in the record."


The attorneys said the Supreme Court should review the case.


"Such review would serve to assure that the government is not merely avoiding scrutiny of a discriminatory overreaction to the Sept. 11 attack and to deter future deprivations of civil liberties," they said.


A number of news media companies and groups supported the appeal.


In their lawsuit, the civil liberties groups argued the Freedom of Information Act, a law that allows for disclosure of certain government records, required the Justice Department (news - web sites) to release the information.


The Justice Department, urging the high court to reject the appeal, said it was entitled to an exception that allows information to be withheld for law enforcement investigations.


Department lawyers said disclosure of the list of people interviewed and detained would provide terrorists with "a road map" of the investigation.


Disclosure also could "expose the identified individuals to harassment and intimidation and could destroy any ongoing intelligence value they might have," the lawyers said.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jan, 2004 02:44 pm
http://slate.msn.com/id/2093707/

Quote:
The Unlocked Box
How Bush is plundering Social Security to close the deficit.
By Daniel Gross
Posted Friday, Jan. 9, 2004, at 10:51 AM PT

The International Monetary Fund, which usually frets about runaway fiscal policies in developing countries, yesterday released a report that warned of the dangers to the global economy posed by the United States' lack of spending discipline, its reliance on foreign creditors, and its failure to plan adequately for future government liabilities.

Earlier this week, even as he called for making the Bush tax cuts permanent, Treasury Secretary John Snow pooh-poohed the deficit problem and insisted the government has a plan to improve matters:

Our fiscal situation remains a matter of concern. With major expenditures to protect our nation's homeland security and fight the war on terror, coupled with a recovering economy, we still face a deficit in the $500 billion range for the current fiscal year?-larger than anyone wants. But that size deficit, at roughly 4.5% of GDP (compared with a modern peak of 6% during the 80s), is not historically out of range; and it is entirely manageable, if we continue the president's strong pro-growth economic policies and sound fiscal restraint. Indeed, with adoption of the President's policies, our projections show a solid path toward cutting the deficit in half, toward a size that is below 2% of GDP, within the next five years.

The genial treasury secretary, a former deficit hawk, seems literally incapable of speaking truthfully about the deficit. (The same holds for National Economic Council Chairman Stephen Friedman.) In fact, if we adopt the president's policies?-which include a host of new tax cuts and massive new spending programs?-the deficit won't fall 50 percent in the next five years. It will grow substantially. And if President Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress weren't already quietly using every penny of the massive and growing Social Security surplus to cover operating expenses?-and planning to continue this habit?-the deficits would be even larger.

Back in 1983, as part of a deal to save Social Security from impending demographic doom, Congress enacted legislation to essentially increase payroll taxes and reduce benefits. As a result, the government began to collect more Social Security payroll taxes than it paid out to beneficiaries each year. The theory was that the government would use these surpluses to pay down the national debt. That way, when baby boomers retire?-and comparatively more people are collecting benefits while comparatively fewer people are working?-the government would be in a better position to borrow the necessary funds to provide the promised benefits.

So much for theory. The reality? For the first 15 years, every penny of the surplus was spent, first by Republican presidents and then by a Democratic president. According to figures provided by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, the surpluses were relatively insignificant for much of this period. Between 1983 and 2001 a total of $667 billion in excess Social Security payroll taxes was spent?-about $35 billion per year. It was only in fiscal 1999 and 2000, when the government ran so-called on-budget surpluses, that excess Social Security funds were actually used to retire debt.

In the 2000 campaign, Vice President Al Gore said we should sequester the Social Security surpluses in a "lockbox" to prevent appropriators from spending them. Bush agreed in principle. But that commitment went out the window soon after the inauguration. In his first three budgets, Bush (who had the good fortune to take office at a time when the surpluses were growing rapidly) and Congress used $480 billion in excess Social Security payroll taxes to fund basic government operations?-about $160 billion per year!

By so doing, Washington spenders have masked the size of the deficit. For Fiscal 2004?-which began in October 2003?-if you factor out the $164 billion Social Security surplus, the on-budget deficit will be at least $639 billion, rather close to the modern peak of 6 percent of GDP. And according to its own projections (the bottom line of Table 8 represents the Social Security surplus), the administration plans to spend an additional $990 billion in such funds between now and 2008. That year, according to the Office of Management and Budget's projections, the on-budget deficit will be about $464 billion. Only by using that year's $238 billion Social Security surplus does the administration arrive at a total, unified deficit of $226 billion. And the ultimate on-budget deficit will almost certainly be worse. OMB has proven in the past few years that its projections can't be trusted.

The accounting for Social Security surpluses has always been dishonest. But in the past few years, the Bush administration has made this shady accounting a central pillar of its fiscal strategy. The unprecedented reliance on these funds hides the failure of the administration to ensure that there is some reasonable correlation between the resources it has at its disposal and the spending commitments it makes. Bush & Co. have redesigned the tax system so that collections of the progressive taxes that are supposed to fund government operations?-like individual income taxes?-have plummeted. Instead, with each passing year we rely for our current needs more on the regressive payroll taxes that are supposed to fund our collective retirement.

The persistence of the administration and its credulous allies in eliding these facts is flabbergasting. Of course, for the Bush administration to give an honest accounting of the deficits, and of the role that Social Security surpluses play in keeping them down, would be to admit the fundamental bankruptcy?-no pun intended?-of its adventuresome fiscal experiment.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 06:50 pm
From the New York Daily News:

Quote:
He didn't free the slaves.

He didn't rid the world of Hitler.

He didn't even - like his father - preside over the destruction of the Berlin Wall.

Yet George W. Bush tells New Yorker writer Ken Auletta: "No President has ever done more for human rights than I have."

With stunners like that, no wonder he spends so little time with journalists.


In the same article, Andy Card says it's not the job of the White House to provide reporters with facts.

No kidding.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 06:56 pm
Isnt that "did more to human rights than any other president?"
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 07:01 pm
"Yet George W. Bush tells New Yorker writer Ken Auletta: "No President has ever done more for human rights than I have."" As of last count, this administration killed over 15,000 Iraqis while they were not a threat to Americans. If killing 15,000 Iraqis is helping "human rights," I'd hate to think what he's planning for his second term.
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 07:36 pm
Ya know what just adds to that statement from Dubya? The fact he has a BSc in history from Yale. How did THAT happen???? Maybe he never studied American history. Hmmm.....
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 07:49 pm
caprice wrote:
Ya know what just adds to that statement from Dubya? The fact he has a BSc in history from Yale. How did THAT happen????


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/images/daily/bush60sart_072799.jpg
0 Replies
 
caprice
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 12:24 am
Ya know, at first glance the guy facing the camera on the left looks like Frank Zappa. Could you imagine him in class with the bozo on the right? Laughing
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 07:27 am
Zappa never stooped that low. Actually, this picture looks like it was taken inside a jail........

Is the guy in the back on the left Abby Hoffman Question
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 11:54 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Scrat, It's a simple as the following link. http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/1985179/detail.html Whether you can understand it or not, we were treated similar to the Arabs/Muslims in the country over fifty years ago, and put into concentration camps. I am angry at this administration for what this admnistration is doing. You are probably a WASP and don't give a ****, but I do.

From your citation:
Quote:
In the wake of terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, the federal government is requiring all men from Middle Eastern countries in the United States to register, and be fingerprinted, photographed and interviewed.

I do not believe that statement to be true, and I respectfully ask that you find me any official statement, law, regulation... anything from the federal government stating that this is actually being done.

More from your citation:
Quote:
"There are many laws that have passed that are targeting no one but the Muslims as well as the Arab communities. And the South Asians as well," Ouansafi said.

Interesting that he fails to cite even one. Perhaps you can...?

Still more:
Quote:
He said about a half dozen men who are Muslims or Arabs and lived here are voluntarily returning to Egypt, Jordan and Morocco rather than face deportation under the U.S. Patriot Act.

Does it fail to register with you that the only reason these men would be at risk for being deported is if they are here illegally or have associated with known or suspected terrorist elements? Personally, I think these men are showing common sense in choosing to leave voluntarily if they know their status to be such that they will be deported. (And if they are here legally, why would they assume that they will be deported?)

Anyway, there are a few questions for you. As far as I can see, your citation is long on angst and short on facts that support the position taken.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 12:01 pm
Bush's belief that he's done so much for human rights probably has to do with the idea the he freed the Iraqis from Saddam. Given his Manichean view of things, I'm sure that makes sense to him. Of course, many of the Iraqis see the US as imperialist occupiers, but Bush knows otherwise...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 12:12 pm
Scrat wrote:

From your citation:
Quote:
In the wake of terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, the federal government is requiring all men from Middle Eastern countries in the United States to register, and be fingerprinted, photographed and interviewed.

I do not believe that statement to be true, and I respectfully ask that you find me any official statement, law, regulation... anything from the federal government stating that this is actually being done.


Just another media source, but ...
From The Christian Science Monitor, the February 06, 2003 edition


Quote:
[...]
The requirement that foreign men, from mostly Muslim nations, register with US authorities is part of the Patriot Act passed by Congress last year. It's a key component of a law designed to help authorities prevent terrorism on home soil. For the INS, it's an opportunity to bridge substantial information gaps shown up by the attack on Sept. 11.

Under the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System (NSEERS), as its formally known, the agency has photographed and fingerprinted men 16 and older from 25 nations who had arrived in the US by last September. They've conducted interviews and rifled through paperwork to substantiate biographical details such as the registrant's place of birth, current address, and job description.
[...]

link to source: Registration for Arabs draws fire
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 12:18 pm
Here's another. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/101387_immigration26.shtml
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 12:21 pm
And another. http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0206/p03s01-usgn.html
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2004 12:22 pm
Actually, people like Scrat could do his own Google search to find hundreds of these, but he wants to remain blind to what this administration is doing to the civil rights of minorities. Scrat is part of the problem. bah humbug.
0 Replies
 
 

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