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Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 01:21 pm
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/vc007260.jpg
a fine republican tradition
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 02:13 pm
Now, why bring Michael Jackson into this, Dys?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/images/031120jackson-free.jpg

Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 02:19 pm
It's amazing how the utter infamy of Bush makes even Nixon look mild.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 02:29 pm
Interesting, Tart ... I find the utter irrationality of Bush Hatred makes its adherents look disingenuously self-negating.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 02:48 pm
timber

I fully agree with tart here. As despicable a human as I held Nixon to be, I think Bush far far more dangerous. There are thousands of good rational arguments on these threads, not to mention elsewhere, which would support the thesis. These theses may turn out to be wrong, imbalanced in some manner thus leading to an incorrect conclusion, but they are not irrational.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 03:16 pm
blatham, I neither intend nor imply other than that irrational Bush Hatred diminishes the many legitimate, reasoned arguments in opposition to his practice and policies. That with which I take issue is the fixation by some on nothing more substantive than Bush Hatred as justication for their criticism of Bush. A knee-jerk is still a jerk, regardless whether it is the left or the right knee which is jerking,
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 03:23 pm
Many of the right see our opposition to Bush stemming from irrational hatred. In fact, Bush stepped into the stereotypical shoes of the would be tyrant and now steadily draws hatred in all by himself. I was prepared to oppose him as loyal opposition until I saw he had no respect for the concept.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 03:48 pm
Timber
It is not hatred of Bush per se but hatred of his policies and the damage he has and is doing the nation and the world. In effect he is judged on his actions and by those actions he deserves the enmity of people in this nation as well as the rest of the world. It is something he has earned and richly deserves.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 03:50 pm
And seems to relish, since it feed his martyr complex. The man claims to get his instructions from God, for pete's sake. Does this not make you question his fitness to rule?
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 03:56 pm
Of course not, Hobit. True irrationality admits of no fact.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 04:00 pm
hobit, But that's the very reason the majority of Americans love this president. He is following god's wishes.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 04:11 pm
C.I.
No he is not he did not understand what I told him.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 04:17 pm
AU!!!!!
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2003 04:20 pm
Outstanding, au ... wish I'd said that.

On knee-jerks, its notable that any mention of "Irrational Bush Hating" conjurs up a flurry of indignation pegged to the assumption that a perception of irrationality among some Bush opposition is a de facto endorsement of All Things Bush.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2003 02:29 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
...Bush stepped into the stereotypical shoes of the would be tyrant...

No, nobody has any irrational hatred towards Bush. Nope, none. Rolling Eyes
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2003 07:37 pm
Here's a great trick.

America has always had mixed ideas about education. On the one hand, democracy kind of needs folks to be educated, but on the other hand, education turns good practical boys into effete snobs who don't believe in god anymore. The solution, and very useful at the Pentagon particularly, pretend to have gotten a good education, but don't really do it.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/GMA/US/questionable_college_degree_031124-1.html
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Nov, 2003 07:40 pm
Ai Chihuahua and other small breeds of dogs! Shocked
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Suzette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2003 08:21 am
Tartarin wrote:
It's amazing how the utter infamy of Bush makes even Nixon look mild.


I understand your post, Tartarin, but I do believe it seems so because these are the times in which we live.

Please don't ever forget what Nixon did to fine people in the 1950's; let alone his annoying stints as VP and/or P.

:wink:
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2003 08:39 am
Well, I was closer to America in the '50's and '60's than you probably were by virtue (virtue?) of great age! And you're right -- Nixon was a pissant throughout. But he was a much better equipped, more intelligent president than Bush -- not (evidently) bent on destruction as Bush is. What you are reminding me of is how bad the Republican party has gotten -- even worse than during the McCarthy days when (at least) there were people in BOTH parties standing up for the truth.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2003 08:41 am
Quote:
The Uncivil War
By PAUL KRUGMAN


"One of the problems with media coverage of this administration," wrote Eric Alterman in The Nation, "is that it requires bad manners."

He's right. There's no nice way to explain how the administration uses cooked numbers to sell its tax cuts, or how its arrogance and gullibility led to the current mess in Iraq.

So it was predictable that the administration and its allies, no longer very successful at claiming that questioning the president is unpatriotic, would use appeals to good manners as a way to silence critics. Not, mind you, that Emily Post has taken over the Republican Party: the same people who denounce liberal incivility continue to impugn the motives of their opponents.

Smart conservatives admit that their own side was a bit rude during the Clinton years. But now, they say, they've learned better, and it's those angry liberals who have a problem. The reality, however, is that they can only convince themselves that liberals have an anger problem by applying a double standard.

When Ann Coulter expresses regret that Timothy McVeigh didn't blow up The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal laughs it off as "tongue-in-cheek agitprop." But when Al Franken writes about lies and lying liars in a funny, but carefully researched book, he's degrading the discourse.

More important, the Bush administration ?- which likes to portray itself as the inheritor of Reagan-like optimism ?- actually has a Nixonian habit of demonizing its opponents.

For example, here's President Bush on critics of his economic policies: "Some say, well, maybe the recession should have been deeper. It bothers me when people say that." Because he used the word "some," he didn't literally lie ?- no doubt a careful search will find someone, somewhere, who says the recession should have been deeper. But he clearly intended to suggest that those who disagree with his policies don't care about helping the economy.

And that's nothing compared with the tactics now being used on foreign policy.

The campaign against "political hate speech" originates with the Republican National Committee. But last week the committee unveiled its first ad for the 2004 campaign, and it's as hateful as they come. "Some are now attacking the president for attacking the terrorists," it declares.

Again, there's that weasel word "some." No doubt someone doesn't believe that we should attack terrorists. But the serious criticism of the president, as the committee knows very well, is the reverse: that after an initial victory in Afghanistan he shifted his attention ?- and crucial resources ?- from fighting terrorism to other projects.

What the critics say is that this loss of focus seriously damaged the campaign against terrorism. Strategic assets in limited supply, like Special Forces soldiers and Predator drone aircraft, were shifted from Afghanistan to Iraq, while intelligence resources, including translators, were shifted from the pursuit of Al Qaeda to the coming invasion. This probably allowed Qaeda members, including Osama bin Laden, to get away, and definitely helped the Taliban stage its ominous comeback. And the Iraq war has, by all accounts, done wonders for Qaeda recruiting. Is saying all this attacking the president for attacking the terrorists?

The ad was clearly intended to insinuate once again ?- without saying anything falsifiable ?- that there was a link between Iraq and 9/11. (Now that the Iraq venture has turned sour, this claim is suddenly making the rounds again, even though no significant new evidence has surfaced.) But it was also designed to imply that critics are soft on terror.

All this fuss about civility, then, is an attempt to bully critics into unilaterally disarming ?- into being demure and respectful of the president, even while his campaign chairman declares that the 2004 election will be a choice "between victory in Iraq and insecurity in America."

And even aside from the double standard, how important is civility? I'm all for good manners, but this isn't a dinner party. The opposing sides in our national debate are far apart on fundamental issues, from fiscal and environmental policies to national security and civil liberties. It's the duty of pundits and politicians to make those differences clear, not to play them down for fear that someone will be offended.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/25/opinion/25KRUG.html
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