0
   

Let's talk about replacing GWBush in 2004.

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 08:48 am
hobitbob

I have that option set to 'no', and just open up a2k at the page that shows the interactions I've posted on.

I'm hoping you don't fall away. There's a voice not with us now (I'm really hoping it isn't permanent, but it may be) that I miss very much indeed.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 09:39 am
Oh, I am invincible, c.i. , but I none the less face challenges Mr. Green


hobitbob, the only way this becomes a zero-sum game is if you accept a loss and quit. Every rose needs a little fertilizer.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 04:53 pm
Every rose needs a little fertilizer.

It that why New Jersey exists? Shocked
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 08:06 pm
Here's a great quote from Molly Ivins in Bushwhacked:

"You teach a child to read and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test." George W. Bush, Tennessee, February 21, 2001

So much for the value of testing............
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 08:55 pm
Isn't it even more amazing that this guy graduated from Yale and Harvard?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 08:59 pm
Quote:


Bush's UN fiasco
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 09:14 pm
A lot is said about the US' need to understand the feelings and opinions of EU members.

Bush was at the UN to share the feelings and opinions of the majority of Americans. He did. The UN was asked to send a message to Saddam. They did so. When it came time to put teeth in their message--they declined.

He doesn't need to speak for France, Germany et al. They have their own spokesmen. He gave an overview of what has transpired from the POV of most Americans.

I have seen footage from Iraq, and listened to several Americans, who have visited Iraq very recently. Also saw footage of self-described former Saddam loyalists and other Iraqis, who are training to serve in the newly created Iraqi army. They are proud of their ability to achieve independance, and work for their free country. The news is Iraq is improving, and they are well on their way to independance. Visiting Americans came back much less skeptical than when they left for Iraq. We aren't hearing about the successes. I think the successes are phenomenal. As this good news filters in through the bad, Bush's popularity will rise, and it will be apparent that he was right, and the UN was, once again, lagging behind.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 09:33 pm
Quote:
Bush was at the UN to share the feelings and opinions of the majority of Americans

Had he done so, he would have humbly asked forgiuveness and help. Instead, he yammered on about 9/11 and the "war on terrorism." The man is a disgrace, not just to America, but to humanity.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 09:38 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Quote:
Bush was at the UN to share the feelings and opinions of the majority of Americans

Had he done so, he would have humbly asked forgiuveness and help. Instead, he yammered on about 9/11 and the "war on terrorism." The man is a disgrace, not just to America, but to humanity.


Had he done as you suggest, Hobitbob, he would have been forwarding the views of the minority of Americans. 911 is significant to most Americans, as is progress on the struggle to prevent a recurrence.

He may be a disgrace to his English teacher, and he may be oratorally challenged--but I'm glad he was the one making the decisions when this crisis presented to us.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 09:41 pm
Quote:
Bush leads the UN
(Filed: 24/09/2003)


There will be no lack of American pundits warning George W Bush against making Iraq the defining issue of his presidency. Growing domestic dissatisfaction with the way he is handling the aftermath of the second Gulf war suggests that he could go the way of his father, who drove Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait at the beginning of 1991 and was voted out of office at the end. The message then and now is that to be seen as a foreign policy president who neglects matters back home is electoral suicide. And that message will become more persistent as the 2004 campaign gets under way.

It is to Mr Bush's credit that he royally over-rode such admonitions in his speech yesterday to the United Nations General Assembly. He began by describing the destruction of the World Trade Centre in 2001 as the symbol of an unfinished war, then led his audience through bombings in Bali, Mombasa, Casablanca, Riyadh, Jakarta and Jerusalem to what he termed the central front of the war against terror, Iraq.

He rebutted those demanding a rapid transfer of power in that country by calling instead for an orderly and democratic process neither hurried nor delayed by the wishes of other parties. He spoke of his request to Congress for $87 billion to help Iraq and Afghanistan, which would be the biggest commitment of its kind since the Marshall Plan. And he called on the UN to join America in building free and stable societies where the Ba'ath party and the Taliban once ruled.

Far from coming cap in hand to the General Assembly, Mr Bush was as confident as he was when he last addressed that body a year ago. Then, he warned it that it would become irrelevant if it failed to meet Saddam's defiance of its resolutions. Yesterday, he did not admonish, but left his listeners in no doubt of his determination to prevail in Iraq and of his conviction that all nations of good will should contribute to this endeavour. His speech reached beyond the differences between Security Council members over Iraq to what he listed as the scourges of our age - terrorism, weapons proliferation, HIV/Aids, famine and the slavery of child prostitution.

How persuasive it proves will emerge over the next few months. Mr Bush first wants a resolution authorising an expanded but not determining UN role in Iraq. Then he would like troop contributions from countries such as Pakistan and Turkey, and increased financial commitments from a donors' conference in Madrid next month. He may yet be disappointed in some of these ambitions. But the tone of his speech suggested he thought the worst of UN obstructiveness was over.


http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/09/24/dl2401.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2003/09/24/ixopinion.html

Quote:
In News
BUSH'S SPEECH: REACTION FROM U.S. TROOPS
[/size]
By J. Grant Swank, Jr.
Sep 23, 2003, 14:10

''I personally don't care if the U.N. helps,'' said Sergeant-Major Rodney
Placzek. ''They weren't here for the start and they weren't here
afterwards. Why do we need their help now?''

''I feel it's good to see we have the support of everyone in our government and that they're trying to carry that over to the U.N.,'' said Sergeant Darryl McDougal. ''Then maybe we can get global support for what we'redoing.''

Rosalind Russell's Reuters' report goes straight to those defending New
Iraq - the troops.

What I don't get is the title of Ms. Russell's post: "U.S. soldiers in Iraq
shrug at Bush's U.N. speech."

Why the negative headline to the speech delivered by the United States President George W. Bush? The soldiers' comments are not shrugging off Mr.Bush's speech. They're speaking to the lack of U.N. support in contrast to the U.S. support.

I just don't get it. Or maybe I do.


http://bigjweb.com/artman/publish/printer_1104.shtml

There are other appraisals, PDiddie.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 09:46 pm
Quote:
Had he done as you suggest, Hobitbob, he would have been forwarding the views of the minority of Americans. 911 is significant to most Americans, as is progress on the struggle to prevent a recurrence.

He may be a disgrace to his English teacher, and he may be oratorally challenged--but I'm glad he was the one making the decisions when this crisis presented to us.

I will allow that perhaps in rural Georgia the majority agree with a belligerant, fundamentalist, anti-intellectual foreign policy, but I really doubt "most Americans" believe the dung that Bush shovels. if they do, then maybe America's time has passed.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 09:50 pm
Perhaps the greatest obstacle to understanding is the disconnect which prevents some from seeing Iraq as but an episode in The War on Terrorism. Not all are so limited in vision. Indeed, as the US and global economies continue to improve, as Iraq regains her self respect and self determination, as North Korea and Iran both withdraw from their bellicose brinksmanship, the frantic cavilling of the obstructionists will grow louder as their misunderstanding brings them only greater frustration, rejection, and isolation. Of course, if it all goes to hell, the obstructionists can always smugly say "I told you so" ... but then, that's not an opportunity often granted them by history.
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 09:51 pm
France has promised not to veto the Resolution, I heard on the news today. The commentator said that was good enough. "We really don't want anything from them, but for them to get out of the way."

Hobitbob--
To your post...
Quote:
I will allow that perhaps in rural Georgia the majority agree with a belligerant, fundamentalist, anti-intellectual foreign policy, but I really doubt "most Americans" believe the dung that Bush shovels. if they do, then maybe America's time has passed

...I wouldn't merely give that much importance to my own opinion, or the collection of opinions of us poor, backward types so much credence as to assert we'uns are the majority of Americans. I refer to the 63% of Americans, which say Bush was correct in his decision on Iraq.

I do have a south Georgia edumacation--but I believe 63% constitutes a majority.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 10:10 pm
And I wonder what the percentage would be if asked today?
Re your education..as long as it isn't from SCAD...you'd have to change your avatar! Wink
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 10:32 pm
Sofia wrote:
I do have a south Georgia edumacation


Well, hopefully Italgato won't come along and remind you of everything it is lacking...

Yes, timber, and the appraisals are all over the lot:


Quote:
George Bush's speech that followed displayed the usual tone-deaf rhetoric that has become a hallmark of his foreign policy. While there were no outright lies, he was, as a British Cabinet Minister once said, "economical with the truth." Indeed, the president was positively miserly with the truth this time around.

His speech barely acknowledged the fact that the vast majority of UN members disagreed with the invasion being conducted in their name. Being the president of the United States means never having to say you're sorry. But even so, an occasional hands-on contact with reality would be useful. While Bush admitted last week that there was no connection between Saddam Hussein and the Sept. 11 attacks, he declared once again today, "The regime of Saddam Hussein cultivated ties to terror while it built weapons of mass destruction." The phrase "ties to terror" is seemingly the ambiguous phrase of choice, carefully crafted to reinforce the mistaken beliefs of the 70 percent of Americans are convinced that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11 without having to actually say so.

Indeed, Bush's speech introduced a whole new word to the spin-meisters' dictionary: "proliferators." This is an entirely new category of people, who have joined the ranks of assorted "evildoers," as enemies of all that is good in this world. While he did not explicitly mention a list of potential target countries like Cuba, Syria, or Iran as "proliferators," it sounded a lot like neoconservative vigilante justice as usual: "Because proliferators will use any route or channel that is open to them, we need the broadest possible cooperation to stop them."

* * *

In the end, there was little that was new in Bush's speech - just the same old tired assortment of cliches about terrorism, weapons of mass destruction and Iraq. It's not an argument that won many supporters in the UN when it was new, and is unlikely to do so six months into a botched-up occupation.


Eric Alterman
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 10:52 pm
Sofia- I am sure that your South Georgia education is just fine. One of the country's best senators, the Democrat, Zell Miller, graduated from the University
of Georgia in 1958. Besides, he was a US Marine.

The other Senator is, of course, the proficient Saxby Chambliss, graduate of Macon U. of Georgia, 1966.

With such fine models for you to emulate, you could not have gone wrong with your South Georgia education, Sofia. Don't let anybody try to denigrate your South Georgia education. Zell Miller and Saxby Chambliss wouldn't let anyone tell them they were not educated.
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 11:05 pm
PDiddie probably believes that George W. Bush doesn't read or has not read the speeches of his predecessor.

Of course, it is widely acknowledged among the Democratic faithful that William Jefferson Clinton was the most brilliant policy wonk of the 20th century amongst his president colleagues.

I am sure that President Bush read the following comment from President Clinton's speech of December 16, 1998 when Clinton ordered the bombing of Iraq.

"So we will pursue a long-term strategy to contain Iraq and ITS WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION and work towards the day when Iraq has a government worthy of its people"

Compare this quote with the one below.

"The regime of Saddam Hussein cultivated ties to terror while it built WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION"

Quote from President George W. Bush given by P Diddie above.


It would seem that both President Clinton and President Bush believe that Saddam built WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

I really think President Bush would have been derelict in his duties if he had not examined the speech given by President Clinton when he ordered Iraq to be bombed on Dec. 16, 1998.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 11:07 pm
What ever happened to "axis of evil?"
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 11:10 pm
"All over the lot" pretty much sums it up, PDiddie ... there's little consensus. Obviously, not a home run, and not a foul out. The ball is still in play. Not much has changed.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Sep, 2003 11:16 pm
Well, c.i., we busted one'a the axles, Eyerack ya know, yeah we really smoked them outta their hole, but then that dang ol' Dubya Super-sized that buncha evildoers by addin' them other sandniggers in Syria and Eyeran an'...

(Wait a minute, this ain't the 'redneck' thread...)
0 Replies
 
 

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