Surprised, why do husbands have wandering eyes

Oh good heavens, Montana! You don't have anything to apologize for!

I can certainly understand how past problems would cause you to overreact...I do this sort of thing myself constantly. It's natural. And you could be right. If he's doing this when she wants to have sex, they do have a big problem.

That makes just as much sense for women as it does for men, jp! Who said we always want an emotional connection? Not me! Nimh said it best...and it's just as true for us women.

Shame on your mother for telling you that, pantuuf! Sheesh, the lies our mothers tell us...

Wanna laugh? Mine told me when I was 12 (and she truly believed it) that if I kept sleeping on my stomach, I'd be flat chested.

Um...didn't happen.

I figured I would get called out on that one.

Everyone wants their boots knocked every once in awhile, but at least for me and my wife, making love tends to be an emotional thing. We both tend to enjoy it more when we are having that connection.

We have found that our peak times come at different times during the day. Hers tends to be in the morning or later at night while mine tends to be late afternoon or early evening. I try to take care of her needs, she trys to take care of mine. Sometimes we just take care of ourselves. It does work both ways.

control or concern
I've never had a relationship with a man who would spend hours looking at porn and masturbating to porn.

On occasion, my first husband would buy a PlayBoy magazine. (This was 20 years ago--before we had computers and online pornography.) Once in awhile, I would find one. He would just smile and tell me there were good articles in the magazine. "Yeah right!" I would joke back. End of discussion. I was working nights, so I knew there were times when he probably had to take care of his own needs simply because I wasn't there. I never felt threatened or upset. He didn't stockpile any magazines, he would get rid of them.

On the other hand, I know I would have felt concerned (to the point of being upset) if he had obsessed over the magazines, collected them, saved them, spent hours viewing them and masturbating. I would be upset if my man was so absorbed in his porn & fantasy sex life that it occupied a substantial amount of his time and took precious time away from us as a couple.

Most women are not concerned if their men are social drinkers--e.g., have a drink once in awhile with friends or in social gatherings so long as he can handle his liquor and act responsible if he has a little too much to drink. Most women, however, would become upset if their men became alcoholics. We know when drinking becomes a problem in our relationships----and if we try to confront the problem, that is not a "control" issue. It's genuine concern over a genuine problem.

The same can be said about a pornography addiction. Most women are not overly concerned when their men occasionally look at some pornographic material or masturbate. But----women know when it becomes a problem in their relationships. I think, by the time that a wife or girlfriend reaches out in desperation for help---when she posts her fears and concerns on a message board----at that point, the woman has been dealing with the pornography issue for a considerable amount of time and a genuine problem exists.

It is unhealthy for a human being to be absorbed by addiction. It not only affects the addicted person----it affects the people who love him. Should there be a compromise? I don't think so. If an alcoholic should never have another drink, then a porn addict should never view porn.

Re: control or concern

Uhm, I dont think the poster of this thread said anything about her husband spending "hours" looking at porn. All she said was that "...he has and will always look at photos of women, clothed and unclothed on-line. He usually masturbates to them." That' s in itself not much of an indication of "a pornography addiction" or obsession.

You seem to suggest that if someone posts something like this on a board, there must be more behnd it than appears, and it must be what you describe - "hours on end", "a pornography addiction". I do not see why this necessarily should be so. In the other thread, "Does my husband have a porn addiction?", we've seen many posters genuinely surprised or concerned about their husband or bf looking at pictures, per se, and feeling it as a personal slight or putdown when he does so. This is separate from any issue of much further going behaviour, and is what we in turn are reacting to.

Re: control or concern
[quote="nimh'] All she said was that "...he has and will always look at photos of women, clothed and unclothed on-line. He usually masturbates to them."[/quote]

Yes, I read that. The original poster also wrote that they often fought about the issue--to no avail--and now she tries to have rational discussions with him concerning the issue. She also wrote that she is raring to go---wants to have sex with him---but he rejects her advances. She has to wait for him to initiate sex.

Is pornography a problem in the relationship? I say, yes. You say, no. But I think the proof of the problem lies in the ongoing hurt that this woman feels--both by the amount of time her husband spends with pornography and by his sexual rejection of her. If he was not addicted to pornography, he would respect her feelings that it is interfering in their relationship and give it up. He can't give it up. Unhealthy problem? I think so.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Re: control or concern




Who's got the unhealthy obsession???

Deb, it's wrong to marry a person who is one way, then expect to remake them and force them to give up a habit that harms nobody. The OP gave no indication that there were problems with avoidance of marital sex in favor of masterbating to porn. Later, she mentions their sex life has been affected, but couldn't it as easily be affected by her unreasonable need to control and manipulate him as any imagined problematic sexual addiction? Recall that he is fully functional in all other ways, and there seem to be no other problems except those caused by her attempts to guilt/shame/change an ingrained habit he had preceding their marriage... I don't know about you, but I would resent a mate who dictated how I spent my free time... If it were some other habit, watching tv, or hanging out on message boards online, or putting mustard on french fries instead of ketchup, would it be okay for one spouse's will to supercede the other's?

I spend hours looking at Montana's avatar and .... oh, never mind.

ok. ok. ok. i understand everyone's points. i have to admit that i had this same challenge that pantuuf is describing...you know, the sheltered upbringing, conservative background, etc. add to that my unrealistic view imposed on my husband of "married= now I am your only outlet."

i too, was totally shocked a few months back when i discovered that he looked at porn....about once a week.

at the time, i was PREGNANT and out of shape...but still "ready to go." anyway, i found this site and i was able to understand the big picture. many thanks to dagmaraka.

NOW, i've had the baby...i'm back to normal physically, which means my self confidence is restored, and we're all happy now. we talked and talked and talked about it. he stopped the porn use out of courtesy to me. which makes love him even more!

i am also a lot more relaxed about the whole "guy needs" issue. i hope he does crack one off. and i hope he calls me to the shower the next time he does!

someone on here said something and it stuck with me:
"i don't want to be married to a guy with no pulse..."

so pantuuf, i'm sure you will relax a bit, just as i have. my situation turned out well i think. maybe you too can find a happy medium. best wishes!

i'm going to coin the acronym: SSL= "sorry so long!"

Re: control or concern
OK, long post ... perhaps straying from the point (little about porn, here) ... perhaps (who knows) going to the heart of it.


Thats a lot of conjecturing to get into over the course of that last one paragraph ...

Pornography (or "photos of women, clothed and unclothed", in any case) is a problem here, obviously, simply because at least one of the partners has a problem with it. That means having to talk. It does not in itself define what the problem actually is. The hurt one party feels at what the other party does is proof positive that they have a problem - but not of what the problem is.

Example. You like to go out with your friends, just shopping or something - a lot. Back when you were single, you went out with your best friend every afternoon, just chatting and people-watching at the local mall. You fell in love, married. Turns out your husband does not particularly like it, at all, that you're out every second afternoon. It makes him feel insecure - why do you not just want to spend your time with him? Why do you need to get away so much? Those people you watch, is it that they are more handsome? What is wrong with you, are you addicted or something? A legitimate complaint of the heart (personally not liking it that you're away so much) gets rationalised and "objectified" by defining it as your problem, and something inherently and objectively wrong (a disease), by someone who feels threatened by something in his loved one he does not understand or recognize.

Whose problem - yours or his? It seems like the most normal thing in the world for you, and you dont mean anything with it. To him, it is insecuritizing, puzzling, he doesnt understand: if you could do wonderful things together, with your friend if she wants to come, climb mountains, visit museums, have romantic dinners, why are you hanging out at shopping malls away from him? Well, you might say, cause its a cosy, low-key thing to do. But as long as he doesnt get it, he'll be hurt - and perhaps, if you look at it through his eyes, rightly so. Is his hurt proof of a problem the two of you have? Yep. Is it proof that you are doing something wrong, or are even in the claws of some addiction (I mean, after all, why else would you not just stop going shopping with your friend in the afternoons if you know he doesn't like it, if you're not addicted?)?

That's a really roundabout way of saying, of course we should take our loved ones' interests and feelings at heart. But not all of the other person's reactions are your responsibility. Well, that's something I learned (absolutely, wholly unrelated to the subject of porn ) in therapy, myself. My gf continually got very upset about things I did, or didn't do, things I said, or the way I said them. I felt ever more guilty, ever more ... like I was wrong, just wrong. How could I hurt her so? She still loved me dearly, there were just these things I'd done or was doing, she could very articulately explain why and how they would hurt or offend someone of her sensibilities, her reality, etc.

But you know what? Not everything she felt was something I did. Not every of her insecurities was necessarily "proof" of something about me. Sometimes it was merely "proof" of something about her. That's still reason enough to work on it together. But no - not even in love or marriage is everything the other feels something we need to change - and just like it would be abusive to demand to always do whatever one wants no matter what the other feels about it, it is also abusive to demand the other to NOT do whatever you don't want him to.

Resistance to that kind of demand is not proof of "addiction" - we've been round that discussion, too, on the other thread about porn (how does such a dreary topic bring up so many connotations?). It was said there, too - husband views porn - wife objects, demands him to stop it - husband refuses - see, "proof" that he's addicted, why else would he not give in? Err ... cause he doesn't want to? Cause he thinks she's overreacting, perhaps, and is willing to assuage her insecurities by being understanding about it, but not by submitting to any demand that comes forth from it?

As long as "trying to have rational discussions with him concerning the issue" means demanding him to stop on your behalf, you might run into this snag ... it doesn't really necessarily have to do with sex. Coupla guys above already posted with me here on what it can be for ... sometimes, you masturbate cause you're not looking for a wife to share passion with, not even one who is "rearing to go" - that might be exactly what you're not quite up for. Sex and masturbation simply serve different ends, imho.

This is all really a bizarre discussion for me to have - I've never had a fight about pictures in my life. Yeah, I once came upon the pics a gf kept, and was taken a little aback, hardcore. She once came upon mine, and told me to hide 'em better. Thats about it, but the underlying arguments and logic are quite recognizable.

Anyway, back to basics. We have little to go on here, except that, to use your bolded phrases, he "will always look at photos of women, clothed and unclothed" (err, yeah ... we all do) and "he usually masturbates to them" (eh, yeah, thats ... what one would buy FHM or whatever for, pretty much). Perhaps you're right that all we need to know is encapsulated in here, I dunno. Perhaps you jumped to conclusions.

(Sorry about all this, pantuuf - we've gone around this topic on a2k a coupla times already, hence all the stuff that comes up! Didnt mean to hijack your thread ... :wink: )

Glad it worked out for you PamO. I'd forgotten those were the cicumstances under which you first came here. Sounds like you were each able to compromise in a way that worked -- great!

thanks sozobe!

nimh. i KNOW you weren't complaining about the length of my post. your last one was a double SSL. but i still read it, and i concur, sir!

here's one more acronym that i need to use due to lower case and mistakes, TWHJ.

typing while holding juliet.

(Didn't see nimh's post until Pam's reference, I REALLY agree with it.)

(And love TWHJ. :-) I may use my own version -- TWSCAOM, or Typing While Sozlet Climbs All Over Me [applies now].)

LOL! Oh yeah, it could be taken that way, eh <grins>. Nah, I was talking about my own.


I'm glad. I remember your posts in the other thread, and discussing pretty much the same things with each other. You have a pretty concise way of putting things, looking back - for example, that "married= now I am your only outlet".

Thats pretty much it, isnt it? Partly its perhaps a classic old-fashioned man/woman thing, woman striving for the merging of heart and soul, man fighting to retain zones of autonomy. Partly perhaps these high expectations of modern, romantic marriage - you're supposed to find everything you need in life in this one other person - and provide this one other person with every single thing she needs - kinda scary. That alone would sometimes drive a man to have sex with himself instead the odd time, I guess!


Thats cute <smiles>

Re: control or concern



In a relationship, one partner should not insist upon engaging in conduct that upsets the other partner.

If my man came to me and told me that I was doing something that caused him pain, I would stop causing him pain.

If my man came to me and said, "honey--I am so hurt because you spend a lot of time absorbed in pornography and masturbating--you reject my sexual advances--and for the sake of our relationship, I want you to give up your pornography 'habit.'"

I would apologize to my man for causing his hurt and I would throw that pornography away right away. No "habit" is worth destroying my relationship and causing my partner hurt.

If a partner's requests are unreasonable and controlling--then that is a form of abuse. I shouldn't have to give up all my friends and activities in order to make my partner happy, but there needs to be a healthy balance. There is no point in being in the relationship if your partner's feelings are of no concern.

Who would choose alcohol, drugs, pornography, or some other "habit" over their partner? Not me. The fact that he can't give up the pornography when he knows it causes his partner pain indicates that this is not a "habit," but rather an addiction that is controlling him rather than pleasing him.

The woman is not unreasonable and controlling. The addiction itself is unreasonable and in control.

Again, we have to agree to disagree.

Well, I don't care how much it bugs him, I'm not giving up shopping for Setanta. Nope.

In the same way, I'm not expecting him to give up his RPG's.

My shopping, his RPG's, someone else's porn. Sometimes we need time on our own - to do what we want. As long as it is not directly harming the other person, I say it's not really any business of the partner.

I really need to get an Internet terminal in the shower.

Re: control or concern


Let's substitute Nimh's example of shopping every other afternoon with your friend... you would forego that pastime... Now mine, "honey--I am so hurt because you spend a lot of time absorbed in watching television..." "honey--I am so hurt because you spend a lot of time absorbed in posting to that infernal able2k message board..." "honey--I am so hurt because you spend a lot of time absorbed in putting mustard on frenchfries when I've told you time and again that is just plain wrong..." You would apologize for causing hurt and stop those behaviors... I don't believe it for a minute! You would call him on issuing such an ultimatum to you; claim that his controlling conduct was upsetting to you, and therefore, he was wrong and should cease and desist post haste. I've read enough of your posts to believe that is more likely than you rolling over and letting him define your actions for you.

edited to add: I believe that 1st you would try to negotiate a compromise and in the process of doing so attempt to point out his unreasonableness, but if he continued to insist that you and your friend could hang w/him in the afternoon, or you could improve yourself somehow rather than "waste" your time you would not agree, even to maintain peace having the foresight to see that agreeing once to his unreasonable demand would leave you open to later being described as unable to control your behavior in the agreed-upon manner, perhaps even labelled "addicted" to your unnacceptable behavior...

Again, I share the same thoughts as Debra.

I'll shut up now, lol.