For the men...need your insight regarding husbands and porn

What makes something pornographic (in my humble opinion) is ANY form of media when it is used to cause arousal. What this actually means is what may be exotic art to someone may be porn to someone else.

I still disagree with your assertion that some people need pornography (the act of allowing themselves to become sexually aroused through a form of media depicting someone who is not their spouse).

Why should I dishonor my wife by seeking after materials concerning a stranger's sexuality to fill that need? The male psyche, when fed in this manner, begins to desire to fulfill these fantasies and begins to look for ways to make it happen. THIS IS THE NATURE OF MEN. The fact that some men will say it isn't so is nothing more than dishonesty.

Basically, I would actually say that, for me to watch a woman passionately kissing a man, and for me to become aroused, makes that into pornography (at least for me, and probably most men). No amount of nakedness is required, because the nakedness itself is not the evil.

I would like to think that you are just confused about the hangups about nudity that you despise in our culture. You rightly assert that there is nothing wrong with a woman for loving sex. And you are also right that nudity is not bad by itself, but for me to intentionally look at a woman with lust in my heart (Jesus' definition) is bad. And by these standards, I am nowhere near perfect and could not claim to be holier than anybody.

I have already addressed this. Really, there ARE ACTUALLY some perspectives out there that are dangerous. I could (but, naturally, never would) start advocating Nazism or some other form of hate. What would be your response if I said:

"Live your life and let me live mine."

I am simply arguing that pornography is one of those things. I know you aware of the countless children and women whose lives have been changed forever by the aggressive sexual acts of men who let their desire for sexual gratification completely overwhelm their discernment between what is healthy and what is demented. The victims of this spirit of lust are surely as numerous, if not more, than the victims of the Holocaust.

Bella,

I think it would be revealing if you paid more attention to why you dislike kids so much. You cannot raise well-adjusted kids in an environment where there is so little guidance and such a plethora of choices about how to entertain yourself. Constant Temptation to experience pleasure with little pressure to fulfill responsibilities is foolish.

The bottom line is that people must use wisdom and restraint in deciding how to forge the environment that their children are raised and that, indeed, they themselves live in.

I have decided not to have any broadcast TV (cable or even networks) in our home because I think that an environment with broadcast TV is unlikely to be one that I can control. I cannot take off all the irreverent, violent and sexually explicit commercials during, what might be, a decent show. I also know about human nature concerning TV: most of us tend to turn it on and leave it on for hours as we lazily gawk at the manifold colors and sounds it spits out.

The same forms of restraint that I use on myself (with regards to porn) and that I am using to raise my children you would (it would seem) call ridiculously excessive. Yet, at the same time, you don't like kids today.

Open-mindedness doesn't mean letting everything go and letting everyone be. Instead it means a willingness to consider and understand other points of view before choosing your own (point of view).

All that said, I believe in the principle of people finding common ground, I think that at least some has been found.

The bachelor party where the married men were more into the strippers than the single men is a real similar situation as you not letting your kids watch TV.
You think that by raising you kids with no TV will make the difference of them being good kids/teens/young adults, etc... That goes back to the same thing. People have a natural tendency to crave the forbidden. This is usually the CAUSE of problems, NOT the solution to them.
Everyone knows while growing up, if you wanna have the most fun, hang out with the preacher's kids!

I agree. But you can't deny that American's have taken nudity and made it dirty. We are taught as very young children that it is "wrong" to be naked. Why?

I think you are going to make a lot of guys angry with this statement. Many of the men here admit to looking at porn but say they would never cheat on their wives. I think these are two very different things and the distinction between fantasy and reality is a line everyone must draw for himself.

I wish Lord Ellpus was here to tell you that American's have far more hangups about nudity than people of other countries.

First, unwanted children and aggressive sexual acts...I am assuming you are referring to rape. And rape is not (please don't get me started on this) a sexual act. It is a power act. Porn does not cause rape. Men do not get turned on and rape a woman because of blue balls. They might use porn to get turned on before a rape (highly unlikely since the actual act of rape is the turn on for most rapists) but then if the rapist did this, he could have just as well thought of sex to get aroused.

I don't dislike kids. Where did you get that? I dislike the way kids act today, with no respect for themselves or anyone else. I turned out ok. I didn't ever talk to my parents the way I hear kids talking to their parents now. I didn't get into trouble. I don't blame the kids. I blame the parents of the kids.

Music, tv, and pictures don't cause more violence or sexually promiscuous behavior any more than anything else.

I just find it so frustrating that people (not necessarily you) think that the world is what is causing all the problems in peoples lives.

That said, people here, in general, have very little appreciation for tradition or, for that matter, the arts. It is probably directly proportional to the number of miles that the United States is from France.

But our country's capitalism also thrives on exploitation. So much of the nudity presented to us is presented to us, not as art, but as an exploitation of someone (usually women) for profit.

The men may not intend to actually cheat on their wives (and they may never), but some would argue that by seeking out the pornography and indulging in it means they have already cheated on them spiritually (whatever that may mean to you). At the very least, I still would argue that it is counterproductive to a man's efforts to stay faithful to his wife if he indulges in porn. If he needs to "take care of himself" in her absence or during a dry spell between the two of them, that might, unfortunately, be a necessity (unfortunately b/c it is not as fulfilling sexually or emotionally).

I think our culture is a lot like that. Those who have not been able to take care of themselves have had plenty given to them, and so many have learned to live like that. Conversely, through inheritance even those who have (the wealthy) have even more given to them, and their character suffers. Lastly, even the middle class in America is relatively "rich" when it comes to living comfortably.

But I think you would agree that it is not necessary for me to constantly feed them media when we all have much more interesting and fulfilling lives to lead than what this offers.

I just find it so frustrating that people (not necessarily you) think that the world is what is causing all the problems in peoples lives.

My wife and I went through a pretty rough spot years ago because both of us so enjoyed our distractions that we never planned or communicated. So whenever a problem would present itself to the marriage, we were neither dedicated to or experienced in the art of problem solving (together) and we had absolutely no communication skills. Everytime there was a problem, the situation quickly spiraled into a heated argument that went absolutely nowhere.

So as you said, the root of the problem is not pornography, but it is, similarly, the selfish desires living and breeding in their hearts. We all, from time to time, put our selfish desires in front of what is best for family, friends, community and mankind.

This, of course, all goes back to the major question. How should mankind find happiness and contentment? Should it be through material things that we enjoy in solitude or through living things that we can enjoy together (or a healthy mix of both)?

I must go for now and I am about to go on vacation. Be back Monday.

I'm new, but jumping in here. Although I may disagree, hope I'm still welcomed. Not even sure where to start.

I agree with the majority of what hsbnd10 has posted.

#1. For one to believe that our society today, our media, and all other garbage we're bombarded with daily has no effect on our behaviors, thoughts, actions is ignorant. In my opinion, that's equivalent to stating that there's not one thing you've witnessed, heard, been informed of that has affected you. It's a crock. Every single thing you encounter helps you form your own personal ideals. This most definitely applies to children and adults incapable of rational thought.

#2. Rape. Obviously you can't trace rape back to a liking for porn. That would be ridiculous. Rape is solely about power. However, I have to ask...what kind of power are rapists attempting to obtain? The majority of the time, it's against women. You can't deny that. Too often, women are exploited and viewed in a sexual manner.

#3. Porn. Sorry to be blunt here, but I see no "need" for it. I don't fall for the BS of men being visual creatures. To me, it's another lame excuse. Funny as it may be, my husband has done so in the past, but I can't really see past the obvious. Fact is, you have some woman and/or women who are willing to exploit themselves for money. An unknown woman(the excuse) who is for some reason willing to exploit everything intimate about herself for your own satisfaction.

Yet, some have wives and as sad as it is, the wives will agree. "Oh, he's just being a man"..right? Well, how about you(women) be a "woman" all the time? Think he'd be accepting of that? That means not letting a single thought pass without a talk. Sorry, but I just don't buy into this. I've been the wife that's "accepting", but in the end, I only compromised my own personal beliefs. I've yet to meet a woman that's okay, perfectly fine, with her husband getting his kicks from another woman, even it's in pretty print, an image on a screen.... Women need emotional connection. So, if your husband was lacking in that department, would he allow and/or accept you having an "emotional" affair with another man? Men are visual, women are more emotional. Is there a difference?

#4. Finally, huh? Lol. The "Me" attitude. It relates back to everything I've posted thus far. We live in a society that's only concerned with "me". We've been bombarded with the "you're responsible for all of your feelings" attitude. While I believe in being accountable for your own actions and certain feelings, the time comes when you admit that another's actions can bring on some not-so-pleasant feelings. Happiness isn't a constant state of mind. To believe that your loved one's actions don't directly affect you is foolish.

Some say if you're not happy, then leave. While this may ring true in the beginning of a relationship, it doesn't apply to those who've put much time and energy into a relationship. It almost implies that individuals are disposable. Simply not true. When you're in love, more often than not, you're not thinking logically. Applying textbook knowledge or attempting to have robotic emotions isn't being realistic. Up the ante if you have children.

And you are kidding yourself if you think kids, no matter how young, don't pick up on mom or dads unhappiness. They know when you are fighting. And it's worse for kids to be in that environment than it is to divorce.

As far as your sex-life, if it's fulfilling to you and your wife, congrats! For many couples this is the number one cause of friction (no pun,..) in their marriage and will ultimately lead to divorce and bitterness towards their once best friend.

I am quick to speak my mind, BUT, in my defense, I have no problem listening to other views and learning from them. (Occasionally you may even catch me admitting that I COULD BE wrong...) <giggle>

I commend you and your wife on your parenting! It does seem that too many parents use the TV as a babysitter and do NO monitoring of the kids' social life and influences.

Fact is, you have some woman and/or women who are willing to exploit themselves for money. An unknown woman(the excuse) who is for some reason willing to exploit everything intimate about herself for your own satisfaction.

In my opinion, that's equivalent to stating that there's not one thing you've witnessed, heard, been informed of that has affected you. It's a crock. Every single thing you encounter helps you form your own personal ideals. This most definitely applies to children and adults incapable of rational thought.

I've yet to meet a woman that's okay, perfectly fine, with her husband getting his kicks from another woman, even it's in pretty print, an image on a screen.... Women need emotional connection.